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Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Gazer Eyebeast Shapers Shaping

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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 09:28 AM #1 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Topic says all. Can Gazers learn to Shape? Because I think the Gazer of Lehman's pass Talik or something, could Shape. But I am not sure whether he was Shaping creations or just controlling them. His dialogues says he will show "what he learned from the Shapers" before attacking. But could it be Shaping or more powerful magic?
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Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 02:55 PM #2 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

I think the Gazer at Lerman's Pass was definitely Shaping. I remember that when you fight it, it would Shape turrets to attack you with. Gazers can probably learn how to Shape, it's just a little rare to see one do so (Gameplay wise, it would make fighting Gazers a lot more nightmarish; they've already got strong attacks to kill you with, and giving them the ability to Shape new creations in the middle of battle would be pretty horrific. In-universe wise, I think most don't learn to Shape because they're either too arrogant or too insane to do so. Who knows).

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 03:37 PM #3 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

The Gazer at Lerman's Pass also had available essence pools to aid in Shaping minor creations.
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alhoon alhoon

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Posted 14 January 2017 - 11:00 PM #4 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

So yes... Gazers can Shape. Though, that one was shaping... Worms. The one creation considered so low that the player never learns to shape.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

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"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:55 PM #5 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

There were a lot of creations around that area. Worms are one, but there were things like Battle Alphas and Vlish around the area. Not sure if those were from the rebel attack on the fort or if the Gazer made them. I can definitely tell you though that the Gazer itself was Shaping turrets as you were fighting it (not something to scoff at; the player can't Shape turrets, but they're not what I would call a low creation to create. Especially the turret variants made. I think it was Acid Thorn turrets and Submission Thorn turrets, probably two of the most annoying turrets I've ever faced).

As I said, Gazers can probably Shape very strong creations, it's just that in terms of game balance and in-universe logic, there are reasons why to not allow most Gazers you meet to make creations. Game balance, it would make fighting Gazers extremely hard, since they can already kill you with what they've got already, and in-universe, most Gazers are too insane or arrogant to Shape properly in most cases.

idonotexist42 idonotexist42

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 05:00 PM #6 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Idk if gazers could learn to shape but if Drakons could then maybe Gazers could, considering I think gazers are probably smarter. If not then they could be shaped to be able to shape much as the Drakons were. Perhaps they could figure out how they'd have to be shaped and then get someone to do it to them for them. the limits and requirements for How one accesses magic in the Geneforge setting is very unclear.

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 09:51 AM #7 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Geneforge 6: The Drakon-Gazer War
Behold! The Drizzle......of DEATH!!!!!! . . . . . . .-visual effect of using powerful spells in Avadon 2 (they're a bit of a letdown compared to their damage)

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Owenmoz Owenmoz

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Posted 17 January 2017 - 10:02 PM #8 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

I think i read somewhere that most gazers can shape but don't like to, as it's not a pure enough form of power or something. And they are hermits by default, most would rather live alone. (oddly enough they are very opportunistic, because a good amount of gazers take over the minds of rogue creations for protection and such. but i think to them they are no better than a sword as they are completely stripped of independent will, unlike shaping which well... is more complicated)
That being said, gazers would lose the war. They are more prone to insanity and incapable of uniting for sustained periods of time. Plus If the games are any clue, they don't quite have the numbers. I do wish they were less prone to insanity. They would genuinely be terrifying otherwise.
Edit. One thing that comes to mind is that insanity is a result of incompetent shaping which is why i think if they invested any on self shaping they might have been able to correct it. Or worsen it, since self-shaping is often associated with decrease in mental stability. Which i also blame on incompetent shaping. You'd figure after centuries of research they would have perfected the art.

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 18 January 2017 - 06:35 AM #9 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Owen, let's not pretend self-shaping is good for one's sanity under the best of cases.
Now add that it would not be done to correct one's view of the world and increase its compassion and empathy but for powergain...

I will certainly add a Gazerforge in my next mod though (guardians\agents\serviles).

I may throw out a whole zone and replace it completely if I have to, but Gazerforge will be in.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound

Gameman112358 Gameman112358

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 12:14 AM #10 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Self-shaping? Don't things like canisters and the Geneforge count as self shaping? Because if they do, then self shaping doesn't exactly do wonders for your own mental stability... XD
Besides, I don't think there would be any case where self-shaping is capable of making someone be more empathetic and compassionate, considering that self-shaping (If the Geneforge and canisters count) has mostly caused individuals doing so to be:
1. Insane (Monarch(GF4))
2. Power Hungry (Monarch, Drakons)
3. Arrogant (Litalia, Drakons)
4. Physically Damaged (Shaila(GF4), Hoge(GF3))
Anyway, Gazers as I said can't shape because they're too consumed in their insanity and arrogance to do so properly, and if they were capable of doing so with a high level of proficiency, you'd pretty much have to hope you never face one, simply because they'd become far too annoying to fight against, considering they already have a lot of tools to kill you with.
Also, Gazerforge? Now you've got me curious on what the premise of that mod is supposed to be, alhoon. Is it where Gazers can somehow use the Geneforge and become ridiculously overpowered? XD

alhoon alhoon

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 07:47 AM #11 Can Gazers learn to Shape?

Gameman, we had a discussion with Owen and Blxz on the Gazer's right to exist. Evil Shaper-minded as they are, the consensus was that no, Gazers were too dangerous to ever be allowed to exist. One that's not cause trouble will do so in the future. Better exterminate them all. Them-or-us mentality that permeates the loyalists and is one of the main reasons the Rebels are the good guys in the series. ;)

In that discussion, I came up with the Gazerforge: A geneforge for Gazers. Drakons use a different geneforge than humans. Gazers would use a different one that Drakons. The Gazerforge.

I am planning to add the Gazerforge in my third mod, that would be Agents\Infiltrators\Serviles. Thinking to have the player align with either Benhold the bandit or the Gazers for control of part of the Dera Reaches. But that is a looong way from now. I'm half-done with my warrior mod, it'll probably be like a year before the Gazerforge mod sees the light of the internet.
"I am not mad, no matter what you're implying." - Litalia

GF5 mod with extra quest chain here!  Discover who you are and set up your base.

"Ohhh, no! No, it's so close! So close!" - Blxz, ambushed by an Unbound





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