How irritating

[Suspicious Vlish]

I was just messing around with the Ur-Glaahk on the Windows version of GF4, and discovered that it doesn't have a stun touch! Zip, nil, nada. My generic Glaahk consistently sucks away one AP, but the Ur-Glaahk does nothing.

 

I've been gipped!

 

Also, my plated clawbug does no poison damage, whereas my generic clawbug does.

 

Someone might want to alter the creation stats table, so that future gamers aren't suck into investing in these trashy creations.

[Randomizer]

Jeff revised some of the creations between the Mac and Windows versions. The creation tables are based on the Mac release so drayks and drakons do physical damage for their missle attacks instead of fire, etc.

[Drayk Armitage]

Why in the world would the creation stats table ever lead you to investing in those creations anyway?

[Jeran Korak]

I got angry when I discovered that.

 

Why have a plated Clawbug THAT DOSE NOT HAVE POISON DAMAGE?

 

Also the Ur-Glaak I am annoyed about.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Slarty:

Quote:

Why in the world would the creation stats table ever lead you to investing in those creations anyway?

They didn't. Although the table is misleading.

 

I thought that two Ur-Glaahks would have a more potent stun ability than a generic Glaahk, and hence be able to drain a single target down to immobility.

 

How wrong I was! They can't even stun for 1 AP.

[Drayk Armitage]

You do realize also that stunning is completely different in G4, and that it's quite difficult to use it effectively as a tactic in itself?

[Suspicious Vlish]

Yes.

 

But I thought that if the Ur-Glaahk stunning power was so powerful (as Jeff's ingame description says), two or three might be able to suck away ALL of the AP's of the enemy, and hence leave them unable to attack.

 

But my theory was blown out of the water upon realizing that Ur-Glaahks don't stun.

 

Oh well, I guess that's one less useless creation to invest money in.

 

From my own experience, creations worth investing in:

 

- Fyora

- Artila

- Vlish

- Wingbolt

- Kyshakk

- Gazer

- Drakon

[Randomizer]

You left off drayks that are cheaper than wingbolts and don't run out of spell energy in long fights. It's easy to run with a group in chapter 3.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Oops! I missed the humble but effective Drayk.

 

Yeah, the Drayk has remained a very useful and potent creation since GF1.

[Nepharim]

I constantly use Drayks, a group of five can easily soak up about 2000 damage. I love drawing long fights, as long as they end up in victory of course-

[Lilith]

I'm surprised you left out Cryoas. They're as good as Vlish if you keep them alive, and you can get them earlier.

[Drayk Armitage]

Quote:

Originally written by Suspicious Vlish:
But I thought that if the Ur-Glaahk stunning power was so powerful (as Jeff's ingame description says)

Aha, here's your problem. There have been errors in the ingame descriptions of creations and creation stats all the way back to G1 that have never been fixed, with new ones introduced as well.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Thuryl:

Quote:

I'm surprised you left out Cryoas. They're as good as Vlish if you keep them alive, and you can get them earlier.

Oh, I was a little unclear. When I say 'invest in', I mean it literally (ergo. spend money on the 'Create Fyora' or 'Create Drayk' creation conjuring spells).

 

Quote:

Aha, here's your problem. There have been errors in the ingame descriptions of creations and creation stats all the way back to G1 that have never been fixed, with new ones introduced as well.

Well, Ur-Glaahks have stunned in GF1, 2 and 3, so why not in GF4? Past Geneforge experience, + the ingame description, sort of indicates that Ur-Glaahks should have potent stun ability.

[Stillness]

Quote:

Originally written by Suspicious Vlish:
Past Geneforge experience, + the ingame description, sort of indicates that Ur-Glaahks should have potent stun ability.

It never ceases to amaze me how lame melee characters are in these games. It almost seems as if their use is intentionally discouraged by their design. How do you explain ur-glaaks and p. clawbugs otherwise? In fairness I guess there is something to be said for an extra attack in the same round. Even so, I have a hard time imagining a strategy in which a melle creation gives an advantage over missile creations. I could see rots havings some usefulness, but I always feel crippled with them on my team.

[Nepharim]

Thinking of it, I usually avoid creating battle creations at all. I usually go from Fyora, to Roamer, to Vlish. And even by the time you can make Roamers and Vlish, it's still hard to get beaten with seven Fyoras, even if they're untrained.

 

You'll find killing Moseh with seven Fyoras with some extra endurance to be quite easy, if not time consuming.

[Suspicious Vlish]

Stillness:

Quote:

It never ceases to amaze me how lame melee characters are in these games.

I agree that there is a 'net lameness' in melee creations. As Glaahks have been nerfed, I'd be so bold as to say that there aren't any worthwhile battle creations in GF4. Melee is just too weak in GF4, both for creations and your PC.

 

Glaahks/Ur-Glaahks did have their use in GF1-GF3, when stun was quite deadly. Rotgroths were just excellent in GF2 (far more effective than Drakons!), and passable in GF3. And I must admit, I was rather fond of Thahd Shades in both GF2 and GF3. I still remember ambushing the Taker Breeding pits with a bunch of Thahd Shades which were impervious to cryoa and cyrodrayk breath attacks.

 

IMHO, Thahd Shades and Searing Artila are both under-rated creations.

 

Neph:

Quote:

I usually go from Fyora, to Roamer, to Vlish. And even by the time you can make Roamers and Vlish, it's still hard to get beaten with seven Fyoras, even if they're untrained.

I've never been fond of roamers. They are just overpriced artilas.

[Drayk Armitage]

In one of those games -- either G2 or G3, I forget -- Glaahks didn't actually cause stunning. They caused slowing instead, just like Vlish. This wasn't easy to tell since all strong attacks tended to cause minor stunning in those games.

[Suspicious Vlish]

It's interesting that there are detailed articles on the creation stats in GF2 and GF4, but not in GF1 or 3. I wonder why that is?

[Stillness]

I also remember using thahd shades quite efeectively.

[Drayk Armitage]

I did write a detailed piece on G3, it just never went up as its own site and wasn't linked to much. It also was less interesting because it was so one-sided:

 

Broken Vlish: a too long analysis