Burgeoning Battle Gamma Janitorial Closet Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You guys keep saying that two of the groups would be moderate shapers and human rebels. If, as you guys say, the smaller groups would have to band together to survive, wouldn't those two groups temporarily band? Both of them want to get rid of the unbound/drakons so wouldn't they, for the context of G5, band together into a temporary super-group? Just food for your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Xelgion Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Originally Posted By: Nalyd, Prince of Suicides Hmmm, Nalyd can see G5 now. . . You're a young Trakovite Shaper, raised to believe that Shaping is evil and wrong, but trained in it's use for survival. . . But you have always recognized the power inherent in Shaping, the unparalleled power that could be bent to any end. . . You turn on your Trakovite kin and join one of the other sects, eventually slaughtering those who shun Shaping. . . Or you can stay a Trakovite, and run the world into the ground. I don't get why you hate the Travokites so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Because they forsake Shaping, the Geneforge world's greatest hope and power. Nalyd considers censorship to be the vilest act that can be committed. Intellectual freedom and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Sleeping Dragon Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 My point for the drakons not being able to join the Barzites was not that drakons wouldn't like the Barzites and their power, it was that Barzites don't like sentient creations. They like their creations to be slaves, that's why they were at war with the Takers in Geneforge 2. Barzites are really a conservative Shaper sect with canisters, no creations independence allowed. And Randomizer brought up the point I wanted to about the Trakovites, which was they they already have members that are creations, so it appears anyone can join the Trakovites. And I don't think Trakovites are bad. Imagine if shaping were gone overnight, there would be next to nothing to fight over the next day! Heck, the need to find new ways to survive without shaping would pull everyone together if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Progress is worth peace. Nalyd would rather live in an advanced, warring world than a barbaric peaceful one. Shaping is the learned ability to create and customize life. Very, very little is worth losing that. If Shaping disappeared overnight, then the Drakons would more or less slaughter most everyone else. Drakon > Human in combat terms, yes? Even a highly accomplished mage(which there are few of) Stands little chance. The balancing force is Shaping, which puts the sides on much more equal ground. That said, it's not that the Barzites don't like sentient creations(Didn't they create the Gazers?) they just want them to be subservient. The difference between Shapers and Barzites is that Barzites want power, any power, and as much of it as possible at all costs. Shapers would rather stay sane, and keep power in the hands of those that earned it and leaerned the responsibility that goes with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 You're thinking of the Tullegolites, not the Barzites. The Barzites are actually somewhat lenient on the issue. The Trakovites are the scum of Terrestia, and deserve to be killed off in an Inquisition of the highest order. Knowledge, despite its dangers, is never a bad thing. They're the sort of people who have no faith in humanity, and trust no one to do the right things. Filthy. I kill every one of them that I see, or hand them off to be killed. What we need are controls on Shaping. What we need are creations rights. Together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Knowledge at any cost, eh? Dikiyoba shall infect you both with a rare, painful, and probably lethal disease in order to test cures for it. Think of the knowledge that will be gained! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Ale193 Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 The trakovites have a good point, while shaping can bee used for good, when was the last time it was used for anything other than destruction? however I still believe they are wrong to seek to erase knowledge, shaping could do a lot of good for the world if everyone stopped using it to create stuff like the unbound. I think the drakons and the barzites are the scum of the earth for forsaking morality for power for its own sake. The awakened or a similar sect must come back! I agree with goldenking in that we need both Controls on shaping AND Creation rights, at the same time. Make all the serviles you want, just don't beat them cuz they love to work anyway. treat non-sentient creations like favored pets, and treat greater creations as equals. but don't let just anyone learn shaping. the canisters and geneforges need to disposed of untill they can make ones that dont drive you insane. THis would likely be achieved by a fusion of the moderates from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Sudanna Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Knowledge at any cost, eh? Dikiyoba shall infect you both with a rare, painful, and probably lethal disease in order to test cures for it. Think of the knowledge that will be gained! If there was a legitimate chance to actually learn something from that, Nalyd wouldn't mind. Of course, he would rather it be someone else, but if, say, straws were drawn and he lost, Nalyd would be happy to be of service to humanity. Originally Posted By: Spidweb Dozens of different endings. Choose for yourself how the saga will finally end. Also, so much for closure. Ah, Nalyd can see the flamefests now. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Clois Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 If I might put in 2 cents... Firstly, remember he only says there's five winnable sects. There could be all of these in there somewhere, just most of them lose. All of them seem at least plausible. One that I think could show up that hasn't come up is an all-human, anti-creation sect. It seems the natural reaction to the human-creation quarrels of the rebelion, and also works as an offshoot of Trakovites: all shaping and all shaped are outside the natural order and lead to destruction. Think about it: serviles left alone turn to mad cults, drayks beget drakons beget Unbound, creations invariably go violently rouge, and shaping, whether Shaper-permitted or through the Geneforge, is the culprit. Or, it could be humans who still want the free power of shaping for all, but still think that creations should be ted. Everyone here seems to think the Shapers will split entirely, into radicals and moderates or whichever. I don't think so. If there are splits, it will be on the rebels side, just because they have more diversity. However, I think there could still be some minor internal conflicts, on the same level as those among rebels in geneforge 4, just not to the point of jeopardizing their unity. I say this because I can see the awesomeness of this already: Imagine a scenario like the negotiations in Quessa-Uss, only this time with the Shaper Council and with much higher stakes. I cant say what the sides would be or what decisions you'd be making, just that it will happen and it will be awesome. I also don't think it seems to work for the Sholai to be their own sect. I'd be very surprised if they didn't show up somewhere, seeing as its a good roundabout way to end off the series. It's just that all the sects so far are based on philosophies and beliefs, not nationality. It's much more likely that the Sholai will ally with another sect, or better still, that you will have to convince this army of foreigners to fight on the side of your choice. Last, though it's a stretch, the games are the Geneforge games, and I think maybe there could be a full sect strictly revolving around the Geneforge. Maybe some consider its effects to be a physical and mental perfection similar to divine ascension, creating a sort of 'cult of the geneforge' around the self-realized 'gods'. As another thought, being a Shaping artifact, it must have at least some biological aspects; what if the Geneforge developed sentience as a living being? Obviously these aren't that plausible, but either way I think the Geneforge will play a much bigger role in this last game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Evnissyen Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Well, I think the problem is that, by the end of G4, the Shapers and Rebels seem to have realized a common enemy: the Drakons and their Unbound. So it seems that in G5 we should have ended up with approximately three sorts of shapers: the stubbornly conservative ones who refuse to compromise, the moderate shapers who recognize that they have to temporarily join forces with the Rebels in order to defeat the greater evil (after which the Rebel-Shaper war will renew), and the liberal shapers who feel that aligning themselves with the human and servile rebels is the way to a new world order and a new world peace. And the "cult" of the geneforge already exists among the Rebels and the Drakons. I'm not so sure that the geneforge will ever be more than an incidental though powerful influence on the warring factions, since the influence it commands does not really necessitate or even request a cult to uphold it. Then there's the Sholai: I've suggested before that the Sholai might be the only group capable of bringing peace to all of the seemingly irreconcilable sects... perhaps it'll be the Sholai whose assistance the Trakovites enlist? I still wonder whether the Trakovites, though misguided in their philosophy, are not the key to peace. An empire ruled by Trakovites could well be worse than the empire ruled by Shapers... but it might happen that the Trakovites, with the assistance of the Sholai, will turn out to be the only ones capable of bringing everyone together. The Sholai should be interested in helping the Trakovites if they foresee the war spreading to their own part of the world (I don't think they would want to deal with the Drakons and their Unbound). The anti-creation sect is interesting... but not viable, I think, in the current situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Goldengirl Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Originally Posted By: Dikiyoba Knowledge at any cost, eh? Dikiyoba shall infect you both with a rare, painful, and probably lethal disease in order to test cures for it. Think of the knowledge that will be gained! They've got death row prisoners, regular prisoners, and animals for that already. But, if it must be done, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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