Geneforge 5: Improvements, Innovations etc

[Jeran Korak]

I agree, make comments for creations.

 

And I think it's idiotic that creations as large and powerful as Drakons, Gazers, Drakes and Rotgoths should have SOME personality of their own and not be totally under the control of a relitivly weaker human (A well-made drakon can slaughter the shaper PC with one blow from its massive fangs)

[Sudanna]

Only if you're a deadweight silly-putty-Shaper.

[Jeran Korak]

Yet ANOTHER Post from me.

 

I agree with the above statments, much better battle creations, three levels of creation instead of two.

 

But how an earth do we make Jeff use out ideas? I do not want another G game that is exactly the same as all the others except for a few extra creations and new grafics!!!

[Sudanna]

Make heartfelt and honest proclamations that you'd willingly pay double for said features. Or organize a petition on these boards that threatens to not buy anything unless said features are there.

[Jeran Korak]

Quote:

Originally written by Nalyd The Dead:
Only if you're a deadweight silly-putty-Shaper.

Try with 23 inteligence and 2 endurance.

3 Drakons and a wingbolt all doing 200 damage a turn to the right enemies, 400 when blessed and hasted.

[The Duke]

About the way creations look. I think the drackons and dryaks look how do I say...pathetic. The drackons have these pathetic wings that are in some way folded and since they are suppose to be a major part of the war I'd like to see them looking a little more interesting. I'd also love to see more creation loading screens. It gets a little boring looking at the same one time after time.

[Sudanna]

And the Vlish need more tentacles! Three? Creatures as powerful and omnipotent as the Vlish need at least five!

[Jeran Korak]

Quote:

Originally written by Meta-Undead:
Make heartfelt and honest proclamations that you'd willingly pay double for said features. Or organize a petition on these boards that threatens to not buy anything unless said features are there.

I say now in all honesty I would pay QUADRUPLE the current price if these features were in the game.

When G5 comes out I will get the demo and if it doesn’t have at least a MAJOR rebuild I will leave Spidweb in disgust.

These are my honest intentions, G has earth shattering potential but has been watered down over the series, I want to see solid improvements from a variety of sources and our more serious requests taken into firm and thorough consideration.

AND I'd like input from a few of BoA's better designers in G5's creation, some of the skill with scripting, imagination, graphical design and raw talent that people like TM and Kel have put into their scenarios like Renegade and Bassikava could cause astonishing improvement to G5 if given the catalyst.

I am a radical, it gets me in a lot of trouble but it sure as hell makes results!

[The Duke]

So, who wants to start the poll?

[Jeran Korak]

We have to know what the qustions in it are first.

[The Duke]

I have started I poll now so I hope it works out.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Nija_Halycron:

 

Quote:

When G5 comes out I will get the demo and if it doesn’t have at least a MAJOR rebuild I will leave Spidweb in disgust.

*rereads list of demands*

 

Bye! We'll miss you.

 

No, seriously. Jeff makes slow, incremental improvements in his games. He doesn't have the time or resources to do a major overhaul every game. And why should he? Most people grumble a bit, but buy the next game anyway. Putting more time into it and then raising the price isn't an option--there are enough young players who have trouble getting 25-28 dollars to pay for games now.

 

And some of your suggestions are just impractical. Ten new creation types? That's a lot, considering we only have 15 Shapeable base types now. How do you make each one unique, useful, and balanced when battle creations as a whole already fail that test? And how do you explain in-game the remarkable advances needed to make ten new creation types? I never did quite buy the new creations in G2--the base three I understood, but they were so new that being able to shape the 3-skill version without problems seemed unrealistic. Or the packhorse idea--why do you even need it? Jeff changed encumbrance so the weight of items in your pack doesn't matter any more.

 

Dikiyoba.

[Jeran Korak]

The weight limit removal was a stupid idea, whats the realisum of being able to carry around 30 pursteal breast-plates without losing a single AP?

 

People just do not get what we COULD do if we really tried.

 

I mean look, about 20-30 people here can script, 10 or 13 can mod and at least 8 can make new senarios. (A totally random number based only very lossely on what I've seen so far)

[Goldengirl]

Quote:

Originally written by Nija_Halycron:
The weight limit removal was a stupid idea, whats the realisum of being able to carry around 30 pursteal breast-plates without losing a single AP?

People just do not get what we COULD do if we really tried.

I mean look, about 20-30 people here can script, 10 or 13 can mod and at least 8 can make new senarios. (A totally random number based only very lossely on what I've seen so far)

You realize that Spidweb can't afford to hire Spidwebbers? How many do you expect to actually volunteer large amounts of their time to make G5 the best game in the whole series? Not to mention that the engine that the scenarios use is completly different the Geneforge. So, all these hypothetical helpers would have to be taught from the bottom up. I'd rather have many small changes then one huge change. Avernum 4 is an example of this.

[Jeran Korak]

I said COULD not WOULD, I'm not stupid (much )

[Dikiyoba]

Originally by Nija_Halycron:

 

Quote:

The weight limit removal was a stupid idea, whats the realisum of being able to carry around 30 pursteal breast-plates without losing a single AP?

First of all, having 30 puresteel breastplates would be very unrealistic in and of itself. Second, it's a game, which means that realism often has to stand aside for gameplay that will make the game fun. Your character never has to eat, sleep, or go the bathroom, because that wouldn't add anything to the game but tedium. If it bothers you, justify it--maybe your character throws off their pack whenever combat starts, and that's why no AP is ever lost.

 

Quote:

I mean look, about 20-30 people here can script, 10 or 13 can mod and at least 8 can make new senarios. (A totally random number based only very lossely on what I've seen so far)

It's also worth pointing out that several BoA designers don't like Geneforge very much, if at all.

 

Dikiyoba.

 

Edit: Fixed quote.

[Chilung]

Quote:

Originally written by Waylander:


No-one has touched pyroroamers or battle betas since GF1, and Jeff knows it. Battle Creations in general are redundant.

Apparently I'm part of the no one conspiracy. I like and enjoy using pyroroamers.

[yuma_bill]

CUSTOM CREATION COLORS!! I agree with Enraged Slith. I've been wanting this since GF1 and was actually a bit surprised when it wasn't included.

 

Also, I'd love to be able to customize my controls. Specifically, it makes me crazy that in order to click on my enemy and attack it in melee, I'm clicking dangerously close to myself or my creation....thus risking losing my turn. Why does clicking on yourself skip the turn? Isn't the spacebar good enough? I'd really love to be able to turn that feature off.

 

I can't count the number of times I've been in a critical battle, clicked just a 1/2 inch off, and uttered a drawn-out, passionate curse word.

[Sudanna]

Better yet, add the need for a second click on yourself and a "Click again to end your turn" message.

[Student of Trinity]

Quote:

Originally written by Thuryl:
The core problem of AI design is that while easy combat and difficult combat are both trivial to design, the true goal is to make combat that feels harder than it actually is, and that involves at least as much manipulation of human intelligence as of machine intelligence. Continually tricking the average player into believing he has made extraordinary accomplishments is no mean feat.

Ha! That's focusing the problem very nicely, and it's much more interesting than the problem of balancing battle creations.

I can think of two basic things the AI has to do to accomplish its true goal of making the player feel smart.

1) Don't do things that are obviously dumb.

2) Do things that are obviously not dumb.

1) is essentially a debugging task, but no doubt it's hard. It probably hits the frame problem.

2) is just a matter of doing a bunch of different things, all of which have some obvious tactical purpose. Ostentatiously put ranged creations behind barriers, spring ambushes, send a guy running off for help. Every Avernum fort with archers behind windows makes me feel smart.

Doing things that are actually smart is not the point. But sometimes you do want to have an adversary that is supposed to be very intelligent, and then you somehow have to make them do things that do look brilliant, without auto-killing the party.

My favorite realization of fake brilliance is Adam Cadre's IF masterpiece, Varicella, in which the ultimate fake genius is the PC. Varicella is iterature: you die your way to outwitting clever opponents with a complex plan. In a Spiderweb game, perhaps a tree of death messages could guide an average player towards thwarting a brilliant enemy. But that might still be too disheartening to be popular.

[Drakona$$]

Yea i am a noob. I read thru some posts and one thing I would really like is a beast of burden to carry extra items so time isn't wasted running back and forth to shuffle supplies. This would stop the game from bogging down or your character from not being able to carry your booty from various places.

[Sudanna]

You're not a noob, just a newb. You od have bad grammar, though.

 

And all these problems with items can be solved by. . . exitzone! The only cheat code endorsed by Nalyd, other than showmeall.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
My favorite realization of fake brilliance is Adam Cadre's IF masterpiece, Varicella, in which the ultimate fake genius is the PC.

Woah. I know Adam Cadre. I didn't realize that anyone had ever heard of his writing, though.

Quote:

Originally written by Meta-Undead:
You're not a noob, just a newb. You od have bad grammar, though.

Dude. I am definitely aware that typing skills and grammar skills are separate, but seriously, that's just embarrassing.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:

Quote:

Originally written by Student of Trinity:
My favorite realization of fake brilliance is Adam Cadre's IF masterpiece, Varicella, in which the ultimate fake genius is the PC.

Woah. I know Adam Cadre. I didn't realize that anyone had ever heard of his writing, though.

Yeah, he's a pretty big figure in the IF community. Sadly I lack the stones to actually beat Varicella, but most of his other stuff is very puzzle-light.

[Lord Safey]

I like to see the gam finshed. The side you play for beats the enemy outright not pushs them to some remote corner, turns back the enemy and gives your side a second chance.

 

One thing in game play I like to see is the abilty to release a creation instead of asorbing it. Said creation would likely go rouge and would attack anything its path includeing you.

[Leftover Sauerkraut]

Quote:

Originally written by Nija_Halycron:
The weight limit removal was a stupid idea, whats the realisum of being able to carry around 30 pursteal breast-plates without losing a single AP?

It's a game, how could you carry around 30 puresteel breastplates anyway? Besides, if you get into combat, you can just drop whatever you're carrying.

I would like a Nethergate style game where you can choose to start out helping the shapers or the rebels and have an opportunity to switch sides in the middle of the game. That could lead to more varied endings. Like if you start out a shaper and remain shaper, they will reward you greatly but if you start out as a rebel, they won't trust you as much no matter what you do.

[Cylon]

I don't like the idea of being able to completely clear out most areas of the game forever. I think it might make more sense if over time rogue creations started to re-inhabit some areas. I just can't imagine that vacant areas stay vacant forever. I would be happy to see serviles herding ornks take over, or serviles planting crops, etc.

 

Also, I think you should also always get at least 1XP for killing something.

[Sudanna]

Well, that would be considerably realistic. Unfortunately, it wouldn't appeal to those crazies who don't consider the game "completed" until every last living thing is dead and every item a part of their personal hoard. Who, unfortunately, happen to be the majority.

 

In other words, no.

[Sir Spiff]

Well, then you'd have to come back and slaughter those wretched serviles to take their robes and knives. There needn't be a third wave.