Is 8 really the highest useful leadership?

[Walter]

When in the shaper keep, I talked to the trainer, and was told I couldn't get training as I hadn't helped the shapers and "you aren't persuasive enough to convince him otherwise". I have 8 leadership, and wonder if that is a red herring, or if higher leadership will let you get training without helping the shapers.

[Alorael at Large]

The more rebellious your actions have been, the more Leadership you'll need in some encounters. You could have done it with much lower leadership before doing some quests, but it's not terribly important.

 

—Alorael, who does believe it's always possible to get training with enough leadership. Enough just becomes unrealistic very quickly.

[Nioca]

I would suggest that you either help the Shapers to get training from him, or look for help elsewhere. (Namely, the Rebel Safehouse)

[Randomizer]

Some infiltrator items will raise leadership. There are a few places where leadership of 10 will help you get experience and avoid a fight. Moseh's Bunker to repair him, West Illya Road with the patrol thahds, and Alwan to avoid revealing the Safehouse (that might be lower).

[Walter]

The problem with 8 leadership, is even if you are helping the rebels, you can't get training from them in shaping except for tier 1 creations, just canisters. Thus you need training from that shaper if you want the advanced creation types.

[Drayk Armitage]

I assume you are talking about Duncan in Rivergate Keep. Although Leadership can make it easier to get him to train you, you don't need it, and you only need a minimal pro-shaper reputation (105) to utilize him. Leadership exchanges on a 1 to 1 basis with reputation for his check, so pumping leadership high for that would be a gross waste of skill points.

[Randomizer]

As long as you get the Repair Moseh quest from Alwan, you can get a pass from Alwan to get in Shaper Camp Gamma. There you can get creation training. The Shapers only train you in approved creations so drayk, drakon, and gazer are all canister learned.

[Lilith]

Oddly enough, War Tralls have to be learned from canisters as well. They'd be marginally more useful if they were the only tier-5 creation learnable without canisters, but they're not.

[Walter]

Hmm, as I haven't been helping the shapers any, I can't get the repair Moseh quest.

[Randomizer]

Check the link at the top of the Geneforge 4 Forum for reputation. There are several quests that you can do to improve your reputation to the Shaper side. Also based upon the rewards you can estimate your current reputation.

[Walter]

I kind of did every available quest for the benefit of the rebels. So does that mean no shaping training for anything but tier 1 creations the whole game?

[Lilith]

Yup. The rebels expect you to use canisters to get the creations you need.

[Drayk Armitage]

Thuryl's right. What AM I talking about? *blinks*

[Lilith]

Uh, Slar, what are you talking about? There's definitely a reputation requirement to get the Repair Moseh quest. Even your own reputation guide mentions it, and I've just checked the Rivergate Keep script myself; it's definitely there.

 

As far as I can tell, you can't report Moseh's death to Alwan unless you got the quest, either.

[Walter]

Hmm, so unless you help the shapers, you can't get the advanced types of clawbugs, kyshyks(sp), vlish, glaahks, roamers, or battle alphas?

[Micawber]

Or using canisters.

[Walter]

No, I read a list in some thread, and for those creations there only exist 2 canisters each.

[The Mystic]

In the other GF games, I find that having a silver tongue really helps you through some tough conversations. I always buy a about 12-15 levels myself. However, I don't fully know how much I need in G2 thru G4, because I only have the demos (I know, shame on me, though I do have G1), and usually don't buy more than what I need for the demo portion.

[Walter]

I read in another thread recently that each point of leadership gives a benefit of one point of reputation for that trainer, where any quest with 2 outcomes gives 1-5 reputation, so you really can't have enough leadership there if you always help the rebels. Someone said there are a few normal encounters where 12 leadership will do something in the game.