Any comments about doing A5 as Anama?

[Ociporus]

Just wondering what comments you have about having played A5 as an Anama. Not really fishing for comments about NOT wanting to do so (I know there's lots of that feeling around :>) But from those who actually did it, even if just to do the game differently.

 

I did A3 as an Anama once. Still completed the game. The offensive priest spells were very powerful by the time I "converted".

[Randomizer]

Jeff sums it up best, "You have left the path of sanity."

 

Count on not being to get at all the neat loot for crafting items. There are some barriers that will only fall to dispel barrier (see Synergy's Item List for which ones). Some battles will be harder since you will not be able to slow foes. Get all the battle disciplines quickly since that will make a big difference in buffing. You will spend more money on potions to make up for not having mage spells. Some spellbooks will no longer be readable even though they aren't mage spells.

 

I did most of the Azure Gallery before stopping my game. I fought and sneaked through part of Tranquility to become Amana early and did the Sentinel Workshop as one.

[Californian]

I read here in the forum quite awhile ago that you can get the Anama goodies but still retain your mage skills by letting the captive chitrach kill your mage before you join. Somebody said that was the reason Jeff put the captive chitrach there in the first place.

 

Haven't tried it. Does that work? Will the Anama not notice once you've regenerated your mage?

[Zummi]

Yes, it does. And if you're going to remove the Anama bonds via Shafrir, kill both your priest and mage. And no, smart and strong as they may be seen as, the Anama won't notice your mage.

[Evnissyen]

Azuma: What do you mean, "the Anama won't notice your mage"? In what capacity/scenaria/means of the word "notice" do you mean?

 

It actually sounds like joining the Anama is really not worth it at all, except to give yourself a challenge. Is that basically all it is? Do the Anama actually possess more powerful spells? Can they make a priest more powerful? (And they don't seem to be concerned with mages -- maybe this is what Azuma was talking about, except that the previous posts suggested that my Mage would be bound, also. ...So, I'm confused in that regard. Azuma's confused me!

 

Not that I don't welcome confusion; I do, I do! Just so long as it reaches its proper end in appropriate time.

 

Also, and this is important: Do the Anama actually possess any skills or magic that I cannot obtain elsewhere? Also: Can they train me in skills that would be beneficial to me, especially skills that would not be trainable, or as effectively trainable, anywhere else?

[Randomizer]

Being Anama means that all priest spell books are readable without the minimum arcane lore level, you get priest spells earlier and cheaper, and there are a few items that you can buy. This in no way makes up for what you lose.

[Cake]

By joining the Anama, you get a bonus to priest spells, magical efficiency and magery; assuming you have a point in them before hand.

 

The side effect is that you won't be able to cast mage spells.

 

I have a party with 2 priests and 2 mages. I killed the 2 mages before joining the anama. In effect, the 2 mages didn't join the anama, while the other 2 priests did. So my priests got all the bonuses, while my mages didn't get any penalties. However, if you had joined the anama with all 4 of your party alive, then that would be a different story.

[Cake]

Also, when you remove the geas, it kept all my Anama bonuses. However, I killed everyone in my party except one guy when I de-geas myself.

 

So it seems like joining the Anama entails you to a free +2 in priest spells, magical efficiency and magery. You also get a key to rob them blind too, and xp when you click on the join button.

 

Seems like a power gamer's dream.

[Zummi]

Quote:

Originally written by Clavicle:
Azuma: What do you mean, "the Anama won't notice your mage"? In what capacity/scenaria/means of the word "notice" do you mean?

It means that if your mage was dead when you joined the Anama, and you revived him, the Anama won't notice it.

[Evnissyen]

But that power-gamer's dream requires that you sort of half-cheat.

 

By the way, how'd you get into the Anama while being greased... I mean geased?

[Zummi]

You don't. I never geased at an early stage.

[Evnissyen]

Have you ever, in your life, geased? If not then have you ever contemplated geasing? And if so then did you enjoy it and how many times did you enjoy it?

 

Seriously, though... the question in my last post was for Cake.

 

But your post before this last one was helpful; it clears up a little confusion. Thanks.

[Ociporus]

Anyone do the game as Anama without creatively "NOT" doing it?

The work-arounds seem interesting and it is fun to outsmart the game. However, just wondering about ones who did it as "genuine" Anama.

{Not to criticize the ones who got the cheese without getting trapped.}

[Randomizer]

Up to most ofAzure Gallery as a legitimate Anama and I know that several beta testers played it through to the end.

[Penumbral Thahd]

I'm giving it a go. I went with:

 

(1)nephil - deadeye, nimble fingers - focusing on bows, dexterity and defense, I might get gymnastics later.

 

(2)Slith - pure spirit, divinely touched - focusing on pole, priest, and hardiness.

 

(3)nephil - pure spirit, divinely touched -focusing on bow, priest, and a little in intelligence.

 

(4)nephil - pure spirit, divinely touched -focusing on thrown, priest, and a little in intelligence.

 

I figured I would need to sneak out the nephil artifacts because I am giving up so much. I am playing on hard. My primary archer (1) gets the nephil warblade and tries to dodge blows with huge bonuses - anything that increases dexterity, defense, or gymnastics. The slith hits hard and cast a few spells as needed. I plan to use him to cast my long duration spells (enduring shield and steel skin) and little else. The two priests make ranged attacks and heal all day.

 

I plan to cast divine restoration once per turn when I get it. That spell is awesome. I will save all speed potions, and most wands and scrolls and use as needed. Probably some reasonable boosts to endurance are in order. I will play straight up anama (no mage spells). So far so good, in the northern rapids. The summon shade spell has been huge so far.

 

More to follow...

[Penumbral Thahd]

...smite. Just got it. Forgot about it. It does a whole lot of damage. Probably still needed the ranged skills for a back up and battle skills.

 

onward...

[Men are from Slars]

Not having mage spells loses you a few minor bonuses -- some Dispel Barrier items plus the prismatic shield effect -- but that isn't the big loss, and neither is damage output (which isn't really diminished at all).

 

Not being able to cast Haste is where you lose out! As discussed elsewhere, hasting is the single most powerful ability in the game, by a gross margin. Potions and scrolls are too few to haste you in random battles and have a frustratingly short effect, when it comes to boss fights. You can mitigate the lack of haste somewhat by racing to get 20 points in battle skill and piling up fatigue removal, but you are weaker without that spell, hands down.

[Cake]

I would personally ditch nimble fingers for divinely touched. The latter trait is far too useful, based on my experience on torment.

 

And like the last poster said, ditching haste makes the game unnecessarily hard. I'm almost done my torment game, and GOOD GRIEF!, some battles take 30 minutes even with haste! I have a second computer nearby so I can surf the web while I wait for my party to finish the battle.

 

PS, if there's a way to speed the battle animations, please tell me.

[Taliesin]

I miss the old Divine Touch. Special abilities rocked. Especially doubling your AP.

[Evnissyen]

Yes, I couldn't live without Haste. I use it in nearly every battle. It's truly invaluable.

 

But methinks, unless I'm mistaken (the beta testers, like Randomizer, would know more about this than I, of course), that the priest long-term shield spells (Steel Skin & Enduring Shield/Armor) are more important.

 

But as far as mage spells go, Haste is the most valuable, though I find Augmentation indispensible as well.

 

Other than that: for major foes my mage's first action is almost always Slow + Spray Acid (at least for foes not resistant). Reasonably effective . . . and Slow, unlike Terror or Control Foe, almost always works.

 

Also, I couldn't live without my mage's area spells. I love that lightning spell, there's just such a feeling of power in it. I like the special effects of that spell. The motive squigglies; and then that satisfying sonic boom.

 

In regard: DIVINE TOUCH: I've never actually tried that before. Too costly, and I always have to get my mage and priest their appropriate traits when styling their characters, in the beginning. And the fighter... This time I think I went with . . . what is it called, Fast on Feet? + the born warrior one (what's that trait called?).

 

What exactly are the benefits of Divinely Touched, besides being a huge drain on your XP gains? (I know that's corrected when you cut down on the # of characters in your party.) Does it just make you a sort of Jack-of-all-Trades?

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Clavicle:
What exactly are the benefits of Divinely Touched, besides being a huge drain on your XP gains? (I know that's corrected when you cut down on the # of characters in your party.) Does it just make you a sort of Jack-of-all-Trades?

It increases your Blademaster, Sharpshooter and Magery skill every few levels. Of these, Blademaster is far and away the most important, because it allows you to recover more quickly from fatigue. If a character is going to use any battle disciplines at all (and every character should), you want Divinely Touched.

[Penumbral Thahd]

Quote:

Originally written by Cake:
I would personally ditch nimble fingers for divinely touched. The latter trait is far too useful, based on my experience on torment.

And like the last poster said, ditching haste makes the game unnecessarily hard. I'm almost done my torment game, and GOOD GRIEF!, some battles take 30 minutes even with haste! I have a second computer nearby so I can surf the web while I wait for my party to finish the battle.

PS, if there's a way to speed the battle animations, please tell me.

I certainly thought about divinely touched. I don't plan on using melee or spells with this guy, so I would be taking a 30% xp penalty or so for some extra armor, sharpshooter, and fatigue removal. I also hate putting points in tool use. Just let the computer do it for me.

Yes, haste is makes waste of your foes. It will be missed. I have to say that I am eager to see the revamped buff system in geneforge 5. I find it tedious to pants up my guys before/at the beginning of every fight. Casting haste on everyone, bless, shield, prismatic shield, and arcane shield just to fight some random cave worms on torment sucks. I guess I can play on normal if I want to.

[Men are from Slars]

Divinely Touched gives you 20% extra armor for the entire game. It provides bonuses to Blademaster, Sharpshooter, and Magery that begin at +1, and get an additional +1 at every level that is a multiple of 4. This means that at level 32, you get a bonus of PLUS NINE to all three skills. This means that in the second half of the game, you get a higher damage/effectiveness bonus from DT than you do from Natural Mage, Pure Spirit, etc.

 

The experience penalty, while it looks large on paper, will never have you more than 1-3 levels behind, in practice. Since your level itself doesn't affect anything that I know of (other than HP and SP formulas), this means you are trading 5-15 skill points for skills that could cost, at higher levels, over a hundred skill points to buy.

 

And the benefits of Blademaster that Thuryl mentions cannot be overestimated. I sometimes feel like, for munchkin Torment parties, there is no reason to have any character that is not both Divinely Touched *and* an Elite Warrior.

[Randomizer]

Quote:

Originally written by Clavicle:
But methinks, unless I'm mistaken (the beta testers, like Randomizer, would know more about this than I, of course), that the priest long-term shield spells (Steel Skin & Enduring Shield/Armor) are more important.

Steel skin is needed while enduring shield/armor are better at normal difficulty level where they reduce your chance of being hit as well as add to armor 3/6%. I usually skip enduring shield since the spell point cost isn't worth the benefit.

Augmentation is at least available by potion for increasing health before a major fight for a few characters. Jeff tried to balance the game so you can get by without it as Anama.

[Crystal Blue]

Maybe I'm just having a REALLY bad time with this game, but I can't get anywhere anymore with the characters I have. I'm around level 23 with most of them and I joined the Anama (correct way) and it's been hell every step of the way. I'm constantly slowed all the time, and my characters keep taking way more damage then they should be. I only have 110 HP on average, and I'm getting hit 50-60 points every hit by bosses, some times multiple times. It's frustrating enough from me to just quit and never try this game again. >.< The Anama should not be this hard. What am I doing wrong?

[Randomizer]

At this point in the game for normal to hard difficulty you should have endurance at 5 to 6 and higher for torment. Armor should be over 60% for all characters.

 

Speed elixirs will remove slow condition. Battle disciplines are also important to gain shield breaker to weaken boss monsters and well-aimed and mighty blow to increase your damage. Control foe to turn monsters into helping you against the boss and to draw damage away from you.

 

If you got it stunning blow battle discipline will also keep a boss monster out of the fight for a round. It really matters how you use the battle disciplines since non-humans should be almost done getting them all.

[Evnissyen]

Ugh, I always find potions (and wands and crystals) to be too much of a bother, so I just sell them. The only ones I keep are energy (which becomes less necessary over time if you have a high enough Int.) and health & poison, and I rarely ever use any of those, especially the last one. None of these potions (with corresponding spells) are as effective as the spells. And it costs AP to drink a potion just as it does to cast a spell. In previous games it was less costly on AP therefore they were more useful.

 

And 60% armor? I'm at level 28 now and my armor's never been very far above 50% for any character. It's generally been between 40% and 50% for all of them... it's very hard to get the armor points racked up when the system subtracts armor bonuses by some strange system I haven't figured out. Also I don't spend points on Hardiness; it hasn't seemed useful enough, I think it would take too many wasted points to rack up on armor that way, and I've never trusted the armor % since I haven't been able to determine how beneficial it is (especially in past games where you'd have 120% armor and still be getting hit pretty commonly and substantially.)

 

Disappearer:

If level gain doesn't matter in damage or defense (except maybe resistances), then when a helm says +2 levels damage in combat does that mean nothing? I passed up the Helm of Khar because the 25% fatigue removal and +2 level bonus in the Warmaster Helm sounded more valuable.

 

Crystal:

I don't know; maybe it's time to start over with diff't characters w/ better placed stats? By now, with high dexterity and especially with high Gymnastics (extraordinarily valuable), plus a few points in extra tricks like Parry & Riposte, my fighter's become very hard to hit and inflict significant damage upon (except, due to low int., his mind-magic resistance isn't high)... so now I don't have to bother investing in his Endurance (it's now 7 for everyone). Quick Action I've found quite valuable. Double-hitting is a nice ability.

 

For spellcasters: make sure your foes are distracted away from them, and also make sure they have enough Endurance to withstand assaults that only your fighter can withstand, if you have one.

 

I don't know... here I am just throwing out random advice without knowing anything about your situation. You could also, I suppose, lower the difficulty level.

 

If you didn't invest in any traits when you built the characters, well... traits matter.

 

Otherwise, I don't know, I'd have to know more about your situation.

[Crystal Blue]

Well, my situation is pretty much screwed. I think I joined the Anama with a very bad team. My priest kicks much ass, but my former mage is a shadow of what he used to be. In the previous games, I remember, joining the Anama gave you a 1:1 ratio on your mage spells to priest spells. So, technically, my mage should have been around level 10 in priest spells, but for some reason, he only got 8. So I had to waste points just to get him up there.

 

My party:

Human Front Line Fighter with around 8 strength, 7 dexterity, 7 endurance, 7 melee

Nephil Archer with 6 strength, 10 dexterity, 6 endurance, and 12 in bows with around 6 in sharpshooter

Human Priest with 6 strength, 5 dexterity, 8 intellegence, 6 endurance, and 17 in priest skills

Slith Battlemage with 7 strength, 4 dexterity, 8 intellegence, 7 endurance, had 10 in mage skills, now 8 in priest skills.

 

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. With everything costing so many damn points as I level up, I can't invest in much, because that takes around 3 or 4 levels to raise something twice. Most of my game now has been buffing first, going into a battle, letting my front and battlemage bottleneck enemies, hope I can deal enough damage with my front line and priest casting smite to remove things, and then struggle my way into the boss fight. I did the first artifact dungeon with all of the slith and had to reload around 7 times, and that's even before I meet the boss. And I only beat the boss because he didn't summon millions of shades like he usually does.

 

Right now, I'm trying to do the Lake of Trials and I'm almost ready to throw my keyboard out the window. And this is just fighting those Repulsion Spheres. Then I get into the two battle tests and don't last more then 2 rounds. The demon does a hell of a lot of damage to me and the fire burns for too much damage, and the other test with the frost slime...one attack from one of them drops all of my characters to about half health. And they have, like, 4 right away.

 

What am I doing wrong?

[wxxqut]

Quote:

Originally written by Cyrstal Blue:
What am I doing wrong?

Hmm...You joined anama.
If you are to far in the game to reload before joining I suggest character editor(if you are so desperate as you described)

[Randomizer]

Quote:

If level gain doesn't matter in damage or defense (except maybe resistances), then when a helm says +2 levels damage in combat does that mean nothing? I passed up the Helm of Khar because the 25% fatigue removal and +2 level bonus in the Warmaster Helm sounded more valuable.

The Warmaster Helm is the best overall helm in the game. +2 levels of damage in combat means all damaging attacks do 2 more dice levels of damage which for high level spells is significant.

It doesn't work as well later in the game, but those sparkling wands (daze) still can work especially against low level monsters, but not the bosses.

Use area of effect spells like divine fire and divine retribution when you get it. The slime test in the Lake of Trials as Anama is a race to pick them off before they close with the party so hasted attacks and concentrating damage on the closest is needed. I always took a few tries because I got nailed just before finishing.

Mages converting to Anama only get the boost in priest levels that all characters with at least one level get.

[Lilith]

Quote:

Originally written by Clavicle:
And 60% armor? I'm at level 28 now and my armor's never been very far above 50% for any character. It's generally been between 40% and 50% for all of them... it's very hard to get the armor points racked up when the system subtracts armor bonuses by some strange system I haven't figured out.

...

I've never trusted the armor % since I haven't been able to determine how beneficial it is (especially in past games where you'd have 120% armor and still be getting hit pretty commonly and substantially.)

These two points are related. Each piece of armour is counted separately: if you have two pieces of armour that provide 20% protection each, instead of protecting you from 40% of all damage, it'll only protect you from 36% (because the damage is reduced by 20% twice instead of 40% once). In A4, your displayed armour rating was just the sum of your individual pieces of armour, which didn't take the multiplier effect into account: in A5, the correct formula is used. In short, it's usually better to have one strong piece of armour than a lot of weak ones.

[Cake]

Hmm... that's weird. I'm playing on Torment right now, my "tank" has 90% armor at lvl 32, and my healy priest guy at lvl 30 has the lowest with 79% with all magic damage gear.

 

All my characters have divinely touched, could this be the difference?

 

My priest is by far the best damage dealer in my party, with 30 magical efficiency he rarely runs out of mana and most of the end game monsters are vulnerable to ice and disruption. This gives hope to Anama parties =D As long as you can endure haste-less fights.

[Evnissyen]

Crystal:

I don't know. Unless you're playing on TORMENT, I have no idea at all. Maybe try increasing your characters' Dex? Otherwise: a total mystery to me. I find the Spiderweb games to be quite easy when played on normal settings with four characters.

 

Considering how much trouble you've been having, it mystified me that you'd choose to join the Anama... but now that you've professed your love of priestly powers (funny note: here on Earth they've no power at all, except in mind-control magic... interesting) ... well, now I guess I understand why you joined, except that without being able to cast HASTE you're probably being punished a great deal more?

 

Also: Although Divine Fire is nice I don't think I've found it as damaging as Ice Rains Down and as powerful as Electrocute Three; and sometimes a simple, costless fireball is nice. Also, remember: some creatures are ice-resistant, so a priest's devastating Gelid Blow, which might hit another beast for 110 points, will shave off 1 point or none... in which case you'll need electricity or fire.

 

My advice: Get rid of the Anama geas.

 

Thuryl:

Naturally I could derive a simple mathematical formula from those numbers, but I doubt it would relate in any way to the game. Can you explain more clearly how 2(20)=36? Maybe I'm missing something... I don't know what you mean by the armor multiplier problem.

 

When I first noticed the reductions, at first I was mystified and annoyed (a little) . . . then it made since, remembering past games of illogical percentages like 120% that still allowed characters to hit you. It made sense to me that, by some system, armor compilation would cost you percentages.

 

If the formula includes the # of pieces of armor you are wearing, so that all percentages being equal: n being the # of pieces, x being the percentage of each and A being the armor percentage: A=n(x)-n . . . I suppose that would make some sense to me, not in reality but in terms of keeping down the compilation effect.

 

I guess it sounds like your formula, therefore, would be A=n(x)-2n.

[Men are from Slars]

The "formula" is simple: each piece of armor (or armor effect) has its average reduction multiplied rather than added together. For example, wearing one piece of 20% armor will on average have you take 80% damage. Wearing two pieces of 20% armor will on average have you take 80% x 80% = 64% damage.

 

There is a 90% cap on total armor rating (= taking just 10% damage); this includes all equipment worn, natural armor from Divinely Touched (20%) or Thick Skin (12%? I forget), as well as Hardiness (which basically acts as a single piece of armor providing 2% protection per point; so with 10 Hardiness, it's one 20% piece).

 

There are several effects that reduce physical damage, but don't affect your armor rating; so with them it's possible to take less than 10% damage on average. IIRC, Protection takes off a flat 20% (or 25%? I forget). Parry can take off a large chunk depending on your skill level and also does not count towards the 90% max.

 

What does this mean in practice?

 

1) As Thuryl said, one strong piece is armor is better than several small ones. Those 1% poor leather helmets are really never going to make any difference.

 

2) The more armor you have, the less difference additional armor makes, though it never becomes worthless to invest in.

 

3) Parry and Protection are really good.

[Evnissyen]

Okay; I suppose that's something. Of course, in the 'big picture' as they say, it'd be really quite foolish, considering the benefits they give, to reduce my equipment and anyhow that would lower my armor% no matter what I took out, not raise it... though I can see that, early on, that if one found a piece of armor which provided 20% protection I could ditch a lot of the weaker gear in favor of less encumbrance, without losing much percentage.

 

Yes, I do like this system better.

 

Anyhow... in regard to my previous post responding to Crystal Blue, regarding spells... well, I don't like to feel like a fool claiming that the Finite God Torches spell is less effective than Ice Rains Down, which in fact is not the case unless of course the creature is fire resistant.

 

And I probably sound like a jerk anyway because, well, you know how to play the damn game, so ignore all of that if it makes me sound less like a jerk? I feel guilty.

 

Only: if you haven't found him already then you'll meet somebody soon who can remove the Anama geas . . . if you want to remove it; I don't know if there're any actual play-benefits after getting the goodies, since I haven't joined Anama (they wouldn't let me join because I played nice with Gladwell). Hope that doesn't spoil the fun for anybody. I don't think it will.