Awesome Agent Alyssa

[Magenta]

@Hyperion703 and @alhoon expressed interest in seeing my Agent build, and doing some comparisons with theirs, so here it is. I hope I did the images right. 

https://imgur.com/a/qbSiDlw

https://imgur.com/a/9vDRvec

https://imgur.com/23flMx0

 

I'm sure this is not an ideal build, but I had a lot of fun with it. I decided to capture where I finished the main quest as I think that might be more meaningful for comparison. After that she went to Gazak-Uss, leveled up to 22, and added some stats from canisters (and still struggled with Eyebeast Dyx).

 

[alhoon]

What are the actual benefits from having mental and blessing past, say, 7 or 8, compared to putting those points to spellcraft and intelligence that would raise all spells?  I assume you were playing solo, right? 

Edited May 15 by alhoon

[Randomizer]

I can see Blessing magic being high to get essence shield over 300, but mental magic doesn't have a better chance of working above the minimum needed. Almost all fights won't last long enough for extra duration.

[Magenta]

9 hours ago, Randomizer said:

...but mental magic doesn't have a better chance of working above the minimum needed. Almost all fights won't last long enough for extra duration.

Oohh, I didn't even think of that. Wow. That's a lot of skill points I could have put somewhere else. Where should I cap it - about six?

[Drayk Armitage]

Cap it at the requirement for the highest level mental magic spell you care about.  Probably either 1 for Daze, 3 for Dominate, or 6 for Mass Madness.  If you plan on getting a point from those sandals, maybe 1 less.  Personally I find Dominate more useful than the later spells anyway.

[alhoon]

Perhaps those points should have gone to Spellcraft or ... quick action? 

[Drayk Armitage]

Quick Action does not affect spells.  It only affects melee and missile attacks.

[Magenta]

5 minutes ago, Slariton said:

Cap it at the requirement for the highest level mental magic spell you care about...

Makes sense. She actually did not use MM much when it got to late game. There's not much need to Daze or charm if you can just wipe them out with Essence Purge.

[alhoon]

4 minutes ago, Slariton said:

Quick Action does not affect spells.  It only affects melee and missile attacks.

Yes. And he has Missile 5, so with a good cloak or boots it could go to 7, which would make for some serious reaper damage. 

[Drayk Armitage]

Reapers do 1d6 per damage die.  Character currently has 5 Missile Weapons, 5 Agility, 6 QA.

Essence Purge does 1d8 per damage die.  Character currently has 12 Battle Magic, 12 Intellect, 12 Spellcraft.

 

This character is not going to get much use out of Reapers.

[Magenta]

Some of my thoughts on this build:

• I pumped up Magic since that is the Agent's forte. (But apparently I went overboard on MMagic)
• I put nothing into Shaping other than healing - didn't even use the canisters. This was to be a solo run so no need.
• I kept Essence Mastery fairly low until mid to late game when the number of spells cast started eating into the essence.
• I gave her a moderate amount of combat skills - some of those excess MM points might have been useful here. Or maybe Intellect and duration.

[alhoon]

Did you use combat skills a lot after the early game? As Slarty said, with battle magic increasing and increasing, even firebolt would do more damage than usual batons and searer than the early batons. 

[Magenta]

2 minutes ago, Slariton said:

This character is not going to get much use out of Reapers.

Right. The highest baton she could use was (I forgot the name  - the one that slows.) Some of her combat skills came from the Guardian Cloak. I did not find an Agent Cloak. Some of the magic came from Helix Ring and Gazer Skin Boots. Might have been something else but I'm not thinking of it offhand.

[Magenta]

1 minute ago, alhoon said:

Did you use combat skills a lot after the early game?

I did. Two reasons: One, I couldn't resist experimenting with the new weapon shaping. And it seemed like the spells missed a lot when the opponents closed to melee distance. It probably isn't true but it seemed that way.

[Hyperion703]

Noice, Magenta! She's a looker. I especially love her 4 in Essence Purge. Barzite aligned?

 

EDIT: MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD. NEWBIES LOOK AWAY, LOOK AWAY!!

 

Here is the final version of Lilith, my first playthrough in GF2-I. She had killed every thing targetable (except the damn hole bugs and some unkillable golems) in the Drypeaks. At this point, her endless rage and wanton brutality had fully transformed Lilith into "The Silence," a seemingly immortal semi-translucent wraithlike entity hellbent on extinguishing all non-plant lifeforms. Fortunately, through some mystical force, The Silence could not venture beyond the Drypeaks region, leaving it a still, quiet, lethal zone quarantined and sectioned off by the Shaper Council. The area remains forbidden to travelers, soldiers, and researchers alike to this day.

 

 

I never touched any skill outside of Magic Skills, General Skills, Intellect, and Essence Mastery. Though looking at it now, a '9' in both strength and agility seems a bit high for never putting anything into them. It's been a few weeks, maybe I'm mistaken. Dunno.

 

 

Slayer's Chestguard, Student's Belt, Spectral Cleaver, Vampiric Lance, Gazer Skin Boots, Helix Ring, Agent's Shelter, Gloves of Spell Mastery, Drakon Skin Cloak

All the obligatory charms (EXCEPT TWO - Radiating Essence and Drayk Fang Charm; the first was lost because I did not align with Barzhal and killed everyone in the Radiant College. The second because I fell victim to the 1.01 bug that made Zensital hostile if I murdered everyone else in that town - never made it past Awakened). Next solo agent playthough, I'm getting those charms.

 

 

By the time Lilith had met the only NPCs who could train her in Essence Purge, she was already in a state of uncontrollable rage. So she murdered both of the possible trainers immediately (didn't even bother with dialogue). As a result, she never gained those +2 levels in Essence Purge. Again, I hope my character is a bit more self-controlled next playthrough. I never bothered to get any Shaping canisters (outside of Healing) or Combat Skills canisters. 

 

Probably my most successful first run of any SW game thus far. But, if I knew then what I know now...

Edited May 16 by Hyperion703

[Hyperion703]

Oh, and just for fun...

 

[Randomizer]

Student Belt could be replaced with several other belts:

Girdle of Genius gives +2 Intellect for more damage and spell duration with slightly more armor

Stability Belt for more physical armor and stun resistance (the bane of robe wearers)

 

[Hyperion703]

3 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Girdle of Genius gives +2 Intellect for more damage and spell duration with slightly more armor

I thought so too. I kept swapping the SB out for GoG, but I noticed something as I hovered over the spell on my quick use buttons at the bottom. I was perplexed to find out that wearing the GoG actually did less damage than wearing the SB:

• Student's Belt: 35-210 Energy damage (+386%)
• Girdle of Genius: 35-210 Energy damage (+378%)

I expected the base damage to be greater with the GoG, but it isn't. Is that supposed to happen?

 

10 minutes ago, Randomizer said:

Stability Belt for more physical armor and stun resistance (the bane of robe wearers)

If I were playing Veteran or Torment, this would certainly be necessary. In normal, I'd have to be stunned twice to be out of commission for three turns for anything to bash through my Essence Shield, and I don't think that ever happened. But I agree with you; if (when) I end up going into higher difficulties, I'll need to start thinking about sacrificing raw power for survivability.

 

Thanks Randomizer.

[Drayk Armitage]

9 minutes ago, Hyperion703 said:

I expected the base damage to be greater with the GoG, but it isn't. Is that supposed to happen?

As confirmed by Jeff on Steam, the +X% damage bonus is calculated in two chunks which are multiplied together:

1. Sum of all bonuses from stats, extra spell training, etc.  In this case that's points in Intelligence, Battle Magic, Spellcraft, and Essence Purge.

2. Sum of all "+X% to magical/melee/missile damage" equipment/charm bonuses.

 

Normally you wouldn't see much difference, but given how huge #1 is for this character, it's enough to make adding +.05 to #2 more helpful than adding +.10 to #1.

 

EDIT: Also, bonuses from statuses like War Blessing, Enrage, and Overload go into this number.  I'm pretty sure Overload is additive as part of #1, so I'd guess the others are as well.

[Hyperion703]

3 minutes ago, Slariton said:

Normally you wouldn't see much difference, but given how huge #1 is for this character, it's enough to make adding +.05 to #2 more helpful than adding +.10 to #1.

Ah, there it is. I knew it had to be some kind of order of operations shenanigans. Thanks, Slartibus (I think you were going by that name when I first visited these boards...)

[alhoon]

6 minutes ago, Slariton said:

As confirmed by Jeff on Steam, the +X% damage bonus is calculated in two chunks which are multiplied together:

1. Sum of all bonuses from stats, extra spell training, etc.  In this case that's points in Intelligence, Battle Magic, Spellcraft, and Essence Purge.

2. Sum of all "+X% to magical/melee/missile damage" equipment/charm bonuses.

 

Normally you wouldn't see much difference, but given how huge #1 is for this character, it's enough to make adding +.05 to #2 more helpful than adding +.10 to #1.

 

EDIT: Also, bonuses from statuses like War Blessing, Enrage, and Overload go into this number.  I'm pretty sure Overload is additive as part of #1, so I'd guess the others are as well.

Eh? So, if 1: is 20+20+20+20 = 1.8 and 2= 5 + 5 = 1.1, the total is: 

"1.8 x 1.1 = 1.98" not "1.8+0.1 = 1.9" 

[Magenta]

@Hyperion703 The first thing I noticed was the uber-high Spellcraft. Does that make a big difference? 

11 hours ago, Hyperion703 said:

I especially love her 4 in Essence Purge. Barzite aligned?

No, Taker. Not that I care that much for the lunatics (sorry @alhoon). I like to try different factions just for the fun of it. But the high EP was definitely worth it. I got two from training and don't remember where I got the other two - probably canisters somewhere. By the time I got to GU I was getting 500-600 damage pretty consistently. Except for Dyx. I had trouble hitting him with anything.

 

I need to look at this some more but right now I gotta run. Later.

[alhoon]

I am Awakened-aligned, because they are indeed Lunatics. Lunatics that I like, but I don't think anyone, the Takers included, would deny they are extremists. 

 

@Hyperion703 why 8 on Mind magic? With that intelligence and spellcraft, the spells are practically never-ending anyway. Do you have a reason for that, or it is equipment? 

Why did you take aaaaall the canisters and paid for training for things like war blessing etc when you have blessing magic so high? Is there a reason?

 

[Hyperion703]

8 hours ago, Magenta said:

The first thing I noticed was the uber-high Spellcraft. Does that make a big difference? 

By my estimation, the most egregious disadvantage with which solo players contend is the shallow number of attacks per round compared to their shaping counterparts. Although a solo agent will almost always output more damage per turn than any single creation from a shaper of comparable level, she does not stand a chance if we compare one of her attacks to a half dozen such creations. It's the difference multiple attacks - even multiple, slightly weaker attacks - have on overall damage output.

 

Although access to powerful (and spammable) AoE attacks can mitigate this somewhat for a solo agent, I knew the trick to be equally successful as shapers would be to find the most reliable method to boost the number of attacks per round. To do this, I had to rely on Spellcraft, Haste, and especially Spell Mastery (from the gloves) working in tandem as much as possible to get 3+ attacks per round with my solo agent. Few things survive three 700-point EPs, even in later zones with more lethal foes.

 

So that's why I pumped Spellcraft as much as I did. And it came with some other notable perks too.

 

The question then becomes, "By doing so, did it have the desired effect?" To which I would respond, "No, not consistently." Generally I could count on two attacks per round. Three were relatively rare.

Edited May 16 by Hyperion703

[Drayk Armitage]

Well put about the damage comparison.  You can't average 3+ attacks per round, though.  Setting aside the Drakon Skin Cloak (which is essentially a superboss drop), with your stats (and the Gruesome Charm, and Gloves of Spell Mastery of course, and haste active), you have roughly a 20% chance of getting 1 cast, a 64% chance of getting 2 casts, and a 16% chance of 3+ casts.  This is fairly close to 2 attacks per round on average.

 

[Hyperion703]

8 hours ago, alhoon said:

why 8 on Mind magic?

Not sure, dude. As a first-run character in a wholly unfamiliar installment of a franchise I played just once prior (GF1-M), intentionality was admittedly lacking somewhat. I just walked around and killed stuff, took quests, pumped skills as needed, and just generally got familiar with the Drypeaks. Maybe some of those MM points were from canisters, books, & equips. Any others likely just felt right to boost through skill points during some time in my playthrough. I guess I didn't notice the few extraneous points because it had little effect overall on her power level. If/when I do another solo agent run, I'll likely remind myself to clip it at 6 points total to maximize ultimate badassery.

[Hyperion703]

8 hours ago, alhoon said:

Why did you take aaaaall the canisters and paid for training for things like war blessing etc when you have blessing magic so high? Is there a reason?

Um... ? Not really sure what you're asking here. My blessing magic was so high because, in part, I took all the canisters and paid for training. What do you mean by this?

[Magenta]

This is an interesting exercise. I'm learning a lot from the discussion. Maybe some day I will get good at this game.

 

Some things I am still wondering about: 

How much Spellcraft is good in this scenario?
How much Melee skill should an Agent have? Are there enemies that are immune to all magic where you need a physical attack? Or should she stick with what she does best?

 

[Magenta]

1 hour ago, Hyperion703 said:

Few things survive three 700-point EPs, even in later zones with more lethal foes.

Have you met the Eyebeast named Dyx? 

[Magenta]

44 minutes ago, Slariton said:

You can't average 3+ attacks per round

Maybe. But you can probably do better than 2. I've had Spell Mastery kick in 2-3 times in a row after already getting two with essence lash followed by EP. It doesn't happen often enough to bring the average to 3 but it's probably above 2.

[Hyperion703]

1 minute ago, Magenta said:

Have you met the Eyebeast named Dyx? 

Why yes, I have. The aptly named Dyx gave my solo agent the most challenge in the late game. Iirc, it became a matter of relying on at least two actions per turn, and using one of them to recast Essence Shield, while using the other to push damage through. And dress to impress: You'll need to wear the most effective stun-resistent attire and accessories. It took a handful of reloads, and balancing attacks between he and his "trashy" allies to win it. The awesome prize he drops had a positive effect on my motivation to take that SoB down.

  

[Hyperion703]

32 minutes ago, Magenta said:

How much Melee skill should an Agent have?

Enough to wield the stat stick of your choosing. If I were doing this run again, I might pick Tek's Spectral Dirk for its sweet sweet defensive bonuses. At the risk of quippy commons saying I "enjoyed taking Tek's dirk" and snickering constantly.

Edited May 17 by Hyperion703

[Magenta]

6 minutes ago, Hyperion703 said:

The aptly named Dyx gave my solo agent the most challenge in the late game.

Yeah, me too. It took me more than a handful of reloads. The trashy allies do some serious damage if you don't pay attention to them. One dose of EP wipes them all out, but they are back next turn. So Essence Shield first, hoping to get a second attack for Essence Purge to the trash. Then if I got a third try I could try to land something on Dyx. He was a LOT more resistant than his stats showed but I finally landed enough to take him down. Definitely a challenge.

[TriRodent]

47 minutes ago, Magenta said:

 

How much Melee skill should an Agent have? Are there enemies that are immune to all magic where you need a physical attack? Or should she stick with what she does best?

 

In my solo, non-aligned run (on normal) I pumped it enough to be able to wield the sword that gave my build a couple complimentary points/boost.  (sorry, can't remember exactly which it was...been a few months). I didn't actually use it much, but the stat boost from just equipping it more than made up for the skill point investment 

[Drayk Armitage]

1 hour ago, Magenta said:

Maybe. But you can probably do better than 2. I've had Spell Mastery kick in 2-3 times in a row after already getting two with essence lash followed by EP. It doesn't happen often enough to bring the average to 3 but it's probably above 2.

 

The math disagrees with you.  Think about it logically:

 

You only get 1 cast (and no more) if nothing triggers on your first cast.  That's haste (35%), stats (in this case, 61% - I think charm haste is additive with Spellcraft, haven't tested; it's worse it's a separate check), and Spell Mastery (20%).  In this case that comes out to 20% for 1 cast only.

 

Assuming your turn doesn't end, you now have either 3 AP or 1 AP, depending on what triggered.  Either way, Spell Mastery is now the only thing that can keep your turn from ending.  So you have a 20% chance (times the 80% that you make it here at all) of getting 3+ casts, which is 16%.

 

A 4th cast just means rolling another 20%, and so on.  So if you really want to do that out we get (with some rounding):

 

1 cast - 20%

2 casts - 64%

3 casts - 13%

4 casts - 2.5%

5 casts - 0.4%

6 casts - 0.1%

 

This comes out to about 1.99 casts on average if you do the math.

 

In theory, yes, you could pump Spellcraft higher than 17.  You'll start eating an obscene number of skill points, but let's imagine we put nearly everything into it and spec equipment for it, and have Spellcraft of 25.  Then the math is (again with some rounding):

 

haste (35%), stats + gruesome charm (85%), SM (20%)

 

1 cast - 8%

2 casts - 74%

3 casts - 14.5%

4 casts - 2.8%

5 casts - 0.5%

6 casts - 0.1%

 

This comes out to about 2.14 casts on average.  So in theory this is possible, but the skill point cost is insane.

 

If you somehow got Spellcraft to 34 -- thus guaranteeing that 1st cast would get the AP reduction -- you'd have exactly 2.25 casts on average.  I don't think this is possible, but that's the theoretical maximum average casts per turn.

[Magenta]

OK, @Slariton, you win. I guess that's one reason I don't like min-maxing 😃. Thanks for the clarification.

 

So here's another question for you. I felt like spells were missing more often when the target was melee distance. Was that just a string of bad luck, or is there a reason for it?

[Drayk Armitage]

Not mechanics.  Probably just bad luck.

 

The other possibility though is that something correlated with it, in your game, for whatever reason.  Maybe melee distance targets tended to be higher level, and therefore have higher evasion, because you tended to kill the lower level targets before they got into melee distance -- for example.

[Magenta]

5 minutes ago, Slariton said:

The other possibility though is that something correlated with it, in your game, for whatever reason.  Maybe melee distance targets tended to be higher level, and therefore have higher evasion, because you tended to kill the lower level targets before they got into melee distance -- for example.

That's actually very possible. At the time, I was wiping out large numbers with Essence Purge. So it's very possible the leftovers were stronger.

[alhoon]

4 hours ago, Hyperion703 said:

Um... ? Not really sure what you're asking here. My blessing magic was so high because, in part, I took all the canisters and paid for training. What do you mean by this?

No, what I mean is why do you have warblessing 4 for example? Is there a reason you paid to train it twice and/or took all the cannisters for it?

Edited May 17 by alhoon

[Hyperion703]

@alhoon I suppose I was under the impression that the higher that number, the better that spell will be, and the larger the bonus. I like big bonuses.