Tier 1 creations seem the most useful throughout the whole game?

[Training-Anteater]

It feels as though amped-up T1 creations are significantly better value than their T3 counterparts? The level difference is so small now compared to the previous series that the power advantage for, say, a Cryodrayk over a Cryora just doesn't seem worth the higher essence cost. Or am I missing something/have I messed up my build? There's clearly some utility value for Ur-Glaaks for stun-spray and dominate, but for fire and battle shaping I can't really see a reason to move up the ranks.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Training-Anteater
Spelling change

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

I'm not sure about the tier 3s, as I haven't found most of those yet, but with the tier 2s I don't think so.

 

I've found that Roamers deal considerably more ranged damage than Cryoas and cost about the same amount of essence. But the Cryoas have their excellent leap + frost aura + frost breath combo. And both get the toughness upgrade. Meanwhile, the humble Fyora is much weaker than the other two, but can spam up to two area effect fire breaths per turn and is dead cheap, so essence for essence it's still pretty useful to keep around mid-game.

 

For magic creations, Vlish don't hit nearly as hard as Artillas. (no acid) But a normal Vlish is actually considerably cheaper than a searing artilla, and can perma-bless your whole group and area-effect curse enemies. Not bad for 20 or so essence.

 

For battle creations, the Clawbugs bring poison/acid sprays to the table, which clearly is a big advantage over Thahds just punching things if you focus on battle creations.

 

Worst deal I've found was Battle Beta versus Battle Alpha. The Beta costs about 50% more essence (much more essence per upgrade) and deals the exact same amount of damage. All it seems to get is a bit more health. Though honestly I like neither creation.

 

In summary: I have tried various creation combos, but the one I like best is a mix.

 

Of course, I don't play on Torment. Might be different there.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Iguana-on-a-stick

[alhoon]

You can buff up the levels of the creations easily. I haven't advanced much but it's a single line of code. Put the Battle Beta the PC makes at +5 levels over the Battle Alpha and you're fine. Of course, then control may become a major issue. If you don't want to go that route, go and change their BB strength and endurance to be higher. 

[Randomizer]

The tier 3 creations deal out more damage per git than tier 1 creations, but it comes with a huge essence cost. Unless you have used the Geneforge, you probably won't have the essence to make the same number of higher tier creations.

 

I got through the game quite well with a group of cryoas or searing artilas with a single tier 3 creation added at the end just to have one. I'm trying a battle creation run and it is better than earlier beta versions, The drawback is only ack of area attacks except with the clawbugs and you can't eliminate the cool down period like the other classes.

[Training-Anteater]

Thanks all! After some experimenting, it seems that essence per attribute point is pretty similar - e.g. A 26-cost cryora has almost identical stats to a 26-cost drayk, at least with my shaping skills. So I guess my key takeaway is that the choice of creation really is skills-based now, not stats-based. 

[Iguana-on-a-stick]

35 minutes ago, Training-Anteater said:

Thanks all! After some experimenting, it seems that essence per attribute point is pretty similar - e.g. A 26-cost cryora has almost identical stats to a 26-cost drayk, at least with my shaping skills. So I guess my key takeaway is that the choice of creation really is skills-based now, not stats-based. 

 

Base damage also varies quite a bit.

 

A level 13 Cryoa: 18-60 damage for ice spit

A level 13 Roamer: 25-77 damage for fire spit

 

That's quite a significant difference for creations that otherwise have a very similar essence cost and are equally tough.

 

Level 13 Charged Vlish gives 24-56 damage.

Level 13 Searing Artilla gives 18-50 damage (and costs much more essence)

 

@Randomizer, since you know a lot about the game: I've been wondering: why does everyone seem to be ignoring Roamers? Their active abilities aren't very good admittedly, but when it comes to plain damage dealing they seem to be well ahead of the pack. (not listed here: the bonus they get from Rage, though that's a double-edged sword.)

 

Edit: One pretty neat trick I've found with Roamers is to let them take some damage and then cast Essence Shield on them. That way they get the damage boost from Rage, but don't get killed in return.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Iguana-on-a-stick

[Randomizer]

Roamers:

 

Plus on harder than normal difficulty - Fiery Wind won't damage party members

- can give hardiness for +30%

 

Minus - can't give them no cool down period so they can do multiple area effect attacks in the same and following rounds. 

[Blxz]

Do creations still steal some of the player experience as per the original game? If yes then having fewer but stronger creations is more powerful than swarms of low level creation zerglings.

[Randomizer]

Having creations or the nearby NPC doing the kill no longer reduces experience. Having no creations or 7 gives the same experience.

[Nicolai]

On 2/28/2021 at 1:03 PM, Iguana-on-a-stick said:

 

@Randomizer, since you know a lot about the game: I've been wondering: why does everyone seem to be ignoring Roamers? Their active abilities aren't very good admittedly, but when it comes to plain damage dealing they seem to be well ahead of the pack. (not listed here: the bonus they get from Rage, though that's a double-edged sword.)

 

Edit: One pretty neat trick I've found with Roamers is to let them take some damage and then cast Essence Shield on them. That way they get the damage boost from Rage, but don't get killed in return.

I have used roamers especially at levels 4-10 but I’ve found that I get more bang for my precious essence bucks by upgrading cryos. Roamers are great, but just ain’t quite as great as cryos.

 

However, that Essence Shield tactic with  roamers and their rage ability is interesting and seems to be a great idea to exploit!

[TriRodent]

It also depends on what difficulty level you're playing on.  On the upper levels, you really need to optimize things to an extent & buffed up lower level creations may not be the best option.

[Nicolai]

4 minutes ago, TriRodent said:

It also depends on what difficulty level you're playing on.  On the upper levels, you really need to optimize things to an extent & buffed up lower level creations may not be the best option.

There is that. I tend to avoid torment.  And my veteran Guardian is only about 1/3 through the game.

[alhoon]

On 3/1/2021 at 2:16 AM, Blxz said:

Do creations still steal some of the player experience as per the original game? If yes then having fewer but stronger creations is more powerful than swarms of low level creation zerglings.

Nope. Creations don't steal player XP