A:EftP - How would you build an all-mage party?

[Hexcel]

Hello!

 

It's been a while since I played this game, and I'd like to go back in and actually finish it. Last time I had a pretty standard party (fighters, mage, priest) and I wanted to do something different this time.

 

I've read some of the excellent guides here, and it seems mages are considered pretty powerful overall, but what about a party of ONLY mages/casters? Might a summoner replace the frontline fighter/tank, or is some kind of beefy tank mandatory? Can I get away with no primary priest?

 

I have not played the game all the way through before, so I'd appreciate some pointers and opinions on building a party of 4 primary mages to beat the game with.

 

Thanks!

[Randomizer]

The first mage should be a tank with fighter skills to get parry so you don't have him die in outdoor encounters where the monsters all go before you.

 

Mage summons are okay, but the lower level ones aren't as useful as a priest's summon shade.

 

You need some priest spells for healing and usually unshackle mind.

 

The worst part is there are monsters that are highly magic resistant (95% damage blocked) so these fights are wars of attrition where you slowly damage them. One fight has a totally magic resistant monster so you are plinking away with physical weapons at 5% chance to hit.

 

Welcome back to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door for when you are done with this game.

[Rugila]

What little experience i have from playing Avernum. If you would be doing all mage party.

You would perhaps wish to learn the domination - spell as early as possible. As it lets you possess the enemy monster. Perhaps possess a tank for yourself?

It'll be fun with the demons once you get there. If you are dependent on magic damage. Some demons are immune to fire or lightning damage which cancels out quite a lot of effective spells.

 

In any case. It would sound like you need a lot of variety on spells to go with every and all conditions.

[Earth]

why all-mage (caster assuming you will use priests too) party? you'd have troubles with monsters which are magic resistant and equipping 4 casters could become problematic.

[Randomizer]

It isn't a problem because there are few required fights with magic resistant monsters. Those are boring as you cut them down with herring bones, but they are all doable. I tried with a 2 mage and 2 priest party.

 

Using swordmage trait you can equip everyone just fine. This game has too much equipment so you wind up deciding what to sell or at least not equip.

[Hexcel]

Thanks for the responses! The all-mage party is really only because I wanted to make an oddball group and I like wizards.

 

Based on your advice, I'm thinking I'll try something like this:

1) "battlemage": Enough weapon skill to reach party ( might help for those magic-resistant encounters?) Plus swordmage trait to wear better armor.

 

2) "spellslinger": the main damage dealer, gymnastics and some dex for extra AP?

 

3) "healer": enough levels in priest for healing and unshackled mind.

 

4) "summoner": focuses on summons as extra meatshields, and can be a secondary healer/buffer.

 

And each character is built enough as a mage to use arcane spells as their main offense. Thoughts?

[Earth]

only in bossfights and other major battles others than lightning strike and that ice spell are needed.

[stranger]

Define "mage". If this means something like a minimum of 8 points in Mage spells, then I have played with such a party:

 

1. Priest Tank - Endurance/Intelligence, 8 Melee/10 Hardiness/5 Parry, 6 Mage/16 Priest/8 Spellcraft/10 Resistance

 

2/3/4. Hybrid Casters - Intelligence/Endurance, 8 Melee/10 Hardiness, 15 Mage/10 Priest/10 Spellcraft/10 Resistance

[Hexcel]

@stranger: That's a fair question. To clarify, when I say 'Mage' I think of a character that uses mage spells as their primary offense and is proficient in arcane magic, which would translate here as 17 in mage spells, so as to be able to learn and cast any of those spells. So in other words I want to have a whole party of people with 17 in mage spells, regardless of anything else they might have.

 

The main thing seems to be that I need enough melee skill in the party to deal with magic-immune monsters, otherwise I can just zap and blast everything to death. If I'm not mistaken, summons deal negligeable damage and there aren't any spells that can bypass the resistances?

[Randomizer]

There is only one monster that is 100% magic resistant and since it's summoned you can leave the dungeon and return to avoid killing it. A few are 95% magic resistant and you can eventually kill them with 100% magic attacks.

[Earth]

some golems/constructs are totally magic immune although 1 of those battles is optional (not that player will skip it) and then are melees needed and although when kills boss then gs/cs disappear.

[Hexcel]

Hey guys, I've finally gotten some time to sit down and play avernum after the festivities (happy new year everyone!) and I've started my magic-only playthrough. As expected it's nowhere near as hard as a no-magic challenge sounds, but I have to say it's actually easier than I thought it would be. Energy really hasn't been an issue at all even starting out - although I've gotten pretty close to the whole party running out of mana mid-battle a couple times because I held off going back to town. xD Four mages just obliterate most fights and dungeons, with only demons being troublesome so far.

 

I ended up making two of the party members part-priest for healing. I think I could get away with a single one, but I like having two to spread the energy usage around. Summons have been handy in a few fights to create a bottleneck, but making the lead character tougher was definitely a good advice, as I don't think I could have gone through relying only on summons for tanking.

 

I've got a couple new questions to help plan for later, though.

First, how do skill bonuses from training interact with the max you can level a higher tier skill? For example, with Melee Skill and Hardiness: if Melee is at 8, and I train 2 points to get 10, can I level Hardiness to 10 or only 8? And if I have both at 10, can I train twice in Hardiness to get 12, or do I need 12 in Melee first? And what about bonus from items?

 

My second question is about the Swordmage trait. I'm trying to determine if it'll be worth investing in for my lead character since she'll probably want heavier armor, but still has to cast mage spells. What does the trait actually do though? If it only counteracts the hit chance penalty, doesn't Intelligence/Mage Spell do that already?

[Randomizer]

All characters can cast Mage spells up to -5% penalty from armor. Swordmage trait increases the allowed penalty another 10% for each level of the trait. Since there are only a few decent armors with no penalty it helps at the start to give one character swordmage trait. Some weapons will offset the penalty like longbows and certain swords.

 

Item bonuses don't count towards the skill tree.

 

Training in the example will let you get Hardiness to 10 as long as melee is 10. However you won't be able to get melee to 12 if you train before getting it to 10.

[Hexcel]

Thanks for the response! So it seems like I might only want a single point in Swordmage, or will it be useful to put more points into it? I guess I'll have to go look up the stats of armors I'll want to equip.

 

 

Some weapons will offset the penalty like longbows and certain swords.

 

You mean weapons that have (+5% hit chance) in their text? I thought that only applied to attacks made with that weapon.

 

 

Training in the example will let you get Hardiness to 10 as long as melee is 10. However you won't be able to get melee to 12 if you train before getting it to 10.

 

I see, but can I train Hardiness to 12 if Melee is still 10? I suspect I can't, but I wanted to be sure.

 

 

Also, I was going to shoot for Erika's tower to train Arcane Lore and then get the Stagnant Tunnel spellbooks, but I just realized buying just the spells I need would actually come out cheaper! D'oh!

[Randomizer]

The +5% hit chance is an exploit that offsets armor penalties even if you are using mage spells. Jeff missed that little trick, but we didn't. He did remove the Demonslayer bonus damage bonus versus demons for spells.

 

You can train even if the level below is lower.

[Hexcel]

Thank you, truly you are a sage!

[stranger]

Regarding training and the skill tree, you can for example have 12 points in Resistance with only 6 skill points in Mage Spells:

A. Put 6 skill points in Mage Spells, train it twice to 8, then

B. Put 8 skill points in Spellcraft, train it twice to 10, then

C. Put 10 skill points in Resistance, and train it twice to 12.