My first Spiderweb journey

[TheDarkHarvest]

First off, I am new here, so hello and all of that ceremonial stuff. I felt the need to create an account here after I finished my journey through Avadon. This, however, wasn't my first Spiderweb game, that goes to Nethergate. Unfortunately. that game scared me off with its very old interface and style (I was coming off of Mass Effect 1 and 2) and couldn't do it! I recently started Avadon because of a friend's recommendation and am I glad I did! I beat it in exactly 30 hours (give or take a minute or two) and could go on for hours, but I'll keep it short.

 

First, my pros and cons.

 

Pros:

• Superbly written. BEYOND superb. I read every single line of dialogue I was given and soaked it all up.
  
• Wonderful characters, both playable and non. They were each very unique and have good lore behind them
  
• World was fresh and exciting.
  
• No clear "good or bad" (At least, for the most part)
  
• Simple, but effective combat.
  
• Insane content for price value (Even fetch quests were interesting!)
  
• Great plot twists and sets up the sequel nicely.
  
• Boss tactics were very unique.
  

Cons:

• Started to drag near the end. (That may have been just me wanting to finish it though)
  
• Some enemies were a joke, while others were ungodly. (Better preparing or a harder/easier difficulty could solve this)
  
• Skill points/abilities felt weak (Not enough points, so either adding more points or taking off the restricition of having to level up the previous ability)
  
• Too much backtracking and no going to the Corruption! (The backtracking fits the story though and the Corruption, or so I've heard, will be adressed in the sequel.)
  

All of these cons though are minor or can be argued against, so it doesn't hurt the game's image in my eyes.

 

I write this just to see what other people think of this game! I have heard from MANY that the Geneforge are the best of the bunch, but that each game (Nethergate, Avernum, etc) can hold their own.

 

The final thing I want to touch on is the ending *Obvious spoilers*

 

 

I know you can do many things to change the ending like kill the duke, dragon, demon, Redbeard, etc. However, my main question is, is the ending almost always "bad"? By bad I mean, does Dhorl Stead always fall, can you save certain people, is Beraza Woods always contested, etc? I felt the game ended more somberly than it should have. Avadon being attacked was part of the scripted story and that's fine, that is a plot point, but everything that happens in the epilogue, of all of that, can any of it be different?

 

 

Thank you Spiderweb for such a compelling experience and my journey into Avernum (I'm still afraid of the oldness of the first Geneforges) starts soon

[Randomizer]

Welcome to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door if it isn't too late.

 

About the spoiler:

 

It is possible to save some of the people of Dhorl Stead by picking the right dialogue option so you don't fight the villagers. Also avoid entering building there on the way to fight the Lord.

 

You get to hear more in Avadon 2, but most things are unresolved as Avadon fights to rebuild.

 

 

Some flaws of Avadon will hopefully get fixed, but testing is only about one third completed. The game may be revised as more is tested. Best fix is hidden switches are easier to spot since they are done like Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

 

A new class has been created so there are now 5 Hands that can help you. More dialogue through out the game. If you have the right Hand with you at certain places you get their dialogue. The writing is better than in previous games and a lot funnier.

 

More and better graphics. You now get a choice of male or female character for all the classes.

 

Combat still can drag especially the ones that spawn new foes until you kill the boss. Some boss fights are original.

[TheDarkHarvest]

Sounds promising! Thanks for a quick reply too

[mouton]

If you liked the writing of Avadon, we can happily recommend Geneforge series. Interface in the first part can be slightly... traumatizing at first, but these are quite sublime wonderfully written games. And there is five of them.

[TheDarkHarvest]

I started up Avernum 4 and then read somewhere that (I know its the 4th in the series) the game will spoil some stuff that happened previously, so I changed my mind and I'm heading towards Geneforge. Only 20 minutes in and I love it! The interface isn't that bad, not as good as AVadon, not as bad as Nethergate.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Geneforge games are closer in character to Avadon with their moral ambiguity, Avernums are more like "be the good guy and save the world, and buy a house if you have some money".

[mouton]

Geneforge games are closer in character to Avadon with their moral ambiguity, Avernums are more like "be the good guy and save the world, and buy a house if you have some money".

Not entirely. While less ambiguous than other games, it still is less black & white than 90% of games. For example, the Empire - or at least its subjects - are sometimes shown in almost-sympathetic way - especially the conscripted soldiers sent down to infiltrate The Pit. There is also some humanization of the Sliths and Nephilim, of whom you basically commit genocide of. I remember a Nephil slave that you release later on in the game who mentions intent of returning to her mate who lives in a Nephil fort which you, uh, kind of burned down to the ground earlier.

 

Edit: Talking about AEftP only - haven't played 2-6

[Mosquito---Slayer]

I basically meant it in comparison to Geneforge and Avadon, even on an absolute scale A1,2,3,4 are very clear in what's good and what's not, Empire and the other races may have some good/pitiable characters (and why not? we are talking about pretty much the whole world here) but overall they do very strongly come out as the bad guys, A5 and 6 do have some meaningful choices though.

[mouton]

I basically meant it in comparison to Geneforge and Avadon, even on an absolute scale A1,2,3,4 are very clear in what's good and what's not, Empire and the other races may have some good/pitiable characters (and why not? we are talking about pretty much the whole world here) but overall they do very strongly come out as the bad guys, A5 and 6 do have some meaningful choices though.

Of course. Just saying that in most games Sliths/Nephils would have been inhuman monsters and Empire would consist entirely of brutal fascist stormtroopers.

 

Thus, even in a relatively simple setting, Jeff does nuance.

[Alorael at Large]

The Avernum series becomes more and more gray, or at least present more and more difficult choices, as the series progresses. It still tends more towards having a side you're on and a side you're against than the other games, but there are more options of which side.

 

Nethergate, of course, is the most fervently faction-based game. You pick it at the beginning and that's your side. It's also your ethnicity and upbringing and a major contributor to your sartorial options.

 

—Alorael, who considers Spiderweb games to have hit excellently on the highs and lows of fetch quests. Nethergate is, in many ways, a game of fetch quests, but that is in no way to its discredit. And then there are the Avernum 3 hermits who send you back and forth with pure fetching and its unfinest.

[Painted Lady]

.... so I changed my mind and I'm heading towards Geneforge. Only 20 minutes in and I love it! The interface isn't that bad, not as good as AVadon, not as bad as Nethergate.

Geneforge 1 - 3 use the same engine. It is upgraded for 4 and 5. I'm currently doing a replay of G3 - it's one of my personal favorites (although others may disagree). I think most of us feel G5 is one of Jeff's finest efforts. So, you have lots and lots of fun awaiting you.

[Death Knight]

 

Geneforge 1 - 3 use the same engine. It is upgraded for 4 and 5. I'm currently doing a replay of G3 - it's one of my personal favorites (although others may disagree). I think most of us feel G5 is one of Jeff's finest efforts. So, you have lots and lots of fun awaiting you.

 

How would you rate Geneforge 1-5 being as you completed them all. I thought that Geneforge 1 was my favorite, followed by Geneforge 2. I haven't completed 3-5 but I didn't really like from 3 on. I think that Geneforge 3 was ok but it was much harder than the other 2 games. Geneforge 4 and 5 I didn't like the change of ap from between then. So I guess Geneforge 3 I might try again seeing as it has same ap and you raved about it.

 

When I play Geneforge, I usually abuse the heck out of the ranged weapons. I am good at soloing and occasionally use creations but prefer evasive and sneaky tactics. I tried to get into Geneforge 4 and 5 with that but it makes ranged weapons own much less.

 

 

[mouton]

How would you rate Geneforge 1-5 being as you completed them all. I thought that Geneforge 1 was my favorite, followed by Geneforge 2. I haven't completed 3-5 but I didn't really like from 3 on. I think that Geneforge 3 was ok but it was much harder than the other 2 games. Geneforge 4 and 5 I didn't like the change of ap from between then. So I guess Geneforge 3 I might try again seeing as it has same ap and you raved about it.

I am positive there are as many rankings of geneforge games as forum mombers

 

Short version: They are all excellent. All have their place in the grand scheme of things and each may appeal more or less to different people. But all are bound with Jeff's vision and character.

[Painted Lady]

How would you rate Geneforge 1-5 being as you completed them all.

 

Well, I have never played a Spiderweb game I didn't like, it's just that some appeal more than others. In Geneforge I pretty much always play as an Agent so I can go solo, which is my preference. I tried G3 on "Tricky" with a Melee styled Guardian, but it was pretty much impossible once I got deep into Harmony Island. Maybe I should give it a go using Ranged weapons.

 

I guess I feel G5 is the best of the series - it has phenomenal replay value.