Garrulous Glaahk wackypanda Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 From what I've seen so far (haven't played much of G4 or G5), canisters, alterations, and the Geneforge all work in the same way - by Shaping a person, which is forbidden. The thing is that alterations don't count as canisters, so someone who only uses those will not notice any canister madness or glowy effects. What I'm wondering is: Is this merely a game design compromise to make no-canister runs easier, similar to how the PC can Shape drayks without any repercussions, or is there actually a difference between being Shaped by pre-programmed essence and being Shaped by a person? (Note also that the more debilitating "canister leprosy" seen in some NPCs in G3 is implied to be due to the canisters going "off", so at least one of the side effects of canister use is due to the essence.) Another thing: alterations and the Geneforge are incredibly painful, while canisters are not. Maybe canister addiction is not addiction to the power per se, but addiction to... additives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyshakk Koan RaustBlackDragon Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I'm guessing that when it's done by hand, you can be more precise and less general, which could possibly prevent the negative side-effects of canisters, which have to be made so they would work on ANYBODY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It might be something like drugs in general, all of them inebriate you but you get addicted to some and not to others , RaustBlackDragon has made a good point too, although I wonder why he has quoted the whole of your post in spite of being the first person to reply . Edit:-He removed the quote, I look very stupid now, don't I? BMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Catoblepas Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Spoilers for G3: I'm pretty sure the alteractions in G3 count as cannister uses, but I'm not 100% sure. Shaping seems to make the shapee more and more 'creation-like', regardless of the method used, and those that use the geneforge but not the cannisters (possible in G4, for instance), and those who use cannisters but not the geneforge (possible in G3) seem to exhibit many of the same quirks, such as 'cannister rage', skin wierdness, and aloofness. I suspect that the pain brought on by using the geneforge is due to its effects being much more drastic than those brought on by cannisters. I suspect that the alterations such as those that can be doen by the Drakon on the Isle of Spears are in line with what happens when the player adds attributes to their creations using essense. It would require a great deal of knowledge about the creature beign shaped (humans, serviles) to pull off, but would theoretically be possible by any shaper of a great deal of skill, it's just that human-shaping is not necessarily a widely circulated skill in their circles, for obvious reasons, so in practice few could do it, sicne this would be a pretty coveted skill, it would explain why there is the need for cannisters and geneforges. Geneforges can convert a great many recruits into lifecrafters, requiring only some maitnence, and cannisters can be delivered to places where the cannister-makers can not go. I suspect that they are just different methods of achieving the same result. Both cannisters and the Geneforge seem to be soemwhat unpredictable, however and the geneforge can kill folks who fall in or really mess them up if they are unlucky like the lifecrafter living in the cave in G4, whiel cannisters have the added disadvantage of possibly spoiling over time, like the one Hoge used in the Dhonal Isle Inn. As for the addictive properties of the cannisters, on Harmony Isle in G3 you can find a cannister that was built for a specific person, that has none of the alluring qualities of 'normal' cannisters, and is actually harmful and painful to touch, while in G1 cannisters will actually kill serviles who try to use them. I suspect that the alluring quality at the very least is a designed feature, (compare the player character's reaction to being in the presence of said cannister to Lankan's reaction) Which makes the rebel's actions of purposefully leaving cannisters around for the PC to find and dangling the promise of cannisters as rewards to be particularly villainous, IMO, esp. in G3- it seems like they are purposefully trying to addict you for the purposes of recruiting you, a pretty underhanded and despicable tactic. Considering that they used a very similar tactic on Shaper Agatha in the same game (in which they purposefully gave her cannisters with the intention of addling her brain so they could take advantage of her mental infirmity) I don't think this interprutation is too far fetched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Over the years, the Geneforges were modified to be less potent (not requiring gloves ), thus changing the ingredients put into the Geneforge. BMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 @Catoblepas ,alterations do not count as canister usage although they are a deplorable action for the loyalists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk wackypanda Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 @Catoblepas ,alterations do not count as canister usage although they are a deplorable action for the loyalists. Not that the Shapers ever need to know what you did. With canisters it's the glowy-ness that tips them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Which is why you wear long flowing robes, armored gauntlets, vembraces, helmets, pants, and boots to hide said glowy-ness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Well, they can still see your face, and I remember that somewhere in G4 you were told that there use can be sensed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If you are an Agent maybe. But Shapers wear big hooded cloaks that keep your face in the dark and Guardians wear helms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk The Reincarnated Baron von Steuben Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Most of the classes (including rebel) have shrouds over the character's faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt BMA Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 They always seem to know when you have used too many canisters. Of course, spewing fire from your hands and going mental every other minute certainly doesn't help. break 50 canisters mix their essence and voila you have a geneforge, right. Mosquito---Slayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 break 50 canisters mix their essence and voila you have a geneforge, right. I'd say you probably have a dead mixing guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Trenton. Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Or, on the off chance that it works, your sanity will be gone faster than the fluffy turtles can eat it themselves. What's the point of limitless power with no control of what you're doing? Now if you mix 100 Canisters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 What's the point of limitless power with no control of what you're doing? limitless power wackypanda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Upon Mars. Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 What's the point of limitless power with no control of what you're doing? What's the point of limitless power with control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Mosquito---Slayer Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What's the point of limitless power with control? limitless power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody The Reverend Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What's the point of limitless power with control? Limitless power without control of that power is not really power at all .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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