Strategy question: who should be my lockpicker?

[Leaper]

I missed the part in the manual about the various lockpicking skills being majority rules, instead of additive like in Avernum. (I'll get a chance to fix it with the trainer, but I bet it'll be expensive).

 

My PC is a Shadowwalker. Who did you guys make your primary lockpicker? (If it matters, my PC is a "left middle" emphasis so far, with Shima being a "middle right.")

[Randomizer]

It doesn't really matter overall in the game, but I usually enjoy the main PC as a sorceress or shadowwalker. It also helps at the start getting early experience since otherwise you can't do as much exploring Avadon until you buy lock picks. You should always have a lock picker in the party.

 

You can retrain near the middle of the game to free up the wasted skill points where you gave them to more than one character.

[The Reverend]

I missed the part in the manual about the various lockpicking skills being majority rules, instead of additive like in Avernum. (I'll get a chance to fix it with the trainer, but I bet it'll be expensive).

The skill retrainer is free, if I remember correctly.

 

If your PC is one of the lockpicking classes, it makes sense to make them your primary lockpicker since there are a few places where they are exploring alone (or where certain companions are not available).

[Davies]

My strategy would be, if not playing as one of the lockpicking classes, to get both Nathalie and Shima to 4 points in that skill as soon as possible, and have one of them in my party at all times that I'm not alone. If I am playing a lockpicker, I would definitely do my own lockpicking and save their points for other things.

[Callie]

I'm playing through the game right now on hard difficulty with a shadowwalker as my main character. He doesn't have any skill points invested in lock picking and I've relegated that duty to Shima. Whenever I clear an area, I go pick up Shima to gather all the loot (unless Shima's already with me). I've found that the setup I'm using is not optimal, as three points diverted from combat skills really doesn't affect my main character's survivability significantly, and it definitely isn't worth the added time.

 

(Is waiting for the retrainer)

[Alorael at Large]

Yes. I'd say you want to put 4 points in lockpicking on your main character, if you can, almost as soon as you can. It gets you some nice stuff and it's far more convenient. You can use Shima or Nathalie, but only if you're never planning to rotate them out, and even then it's probably better to stick with your protagonist.

 

—Alorael, who loves the free retrainer. After Jeff wrote about how not having one is a terrible idea he was sorely disappointed to find such a trainer missing from A:EftP.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

—Alorael, who loves the free retrainer. After Jeff wrote about how not having one is a terrible idea he was sorely disappointed to find such a trainer missing from A:EftP.

I suspect that it's because a retrainer could break the game's balance, for example you could go with an entirely physical party against enemies weak against physical attacks, and vice-versa for enemies weak against magic,you could give your party a huge amount of whatever lore you needed and then reallocate the points to combat, In Avadon the skills in which a character can train is fixed, you can't really have 3 shadow walkers or shamans fighting for you in spite of the retrainer, thus it might not be such a terrible idea after all.

[Randomizer]

Jeff did leave in the character editor if you really need to retrain in Avernum: Escape from the Pit.

[The Mystic]

—Alorael, who loves the free retrainer. After Jeff wrote about how not having one is a terrible idea he was sorely disappointed to find such a trainer missing from A:EftP.

I suspect that it's because a retrainer could break the game's balance, for example you could go with an entirely physical party against enemies weak against physical attacks, and vice-versa for enemies weak against magic,you could give your party a huge amount of whatever lore you needed and then reallocate the points to combat, In Avadon the skills in which a character can train is fixed, you can't really have 3 shadow walkers or shamans fighting for you in spite of the retrainer, thus it might not be such a terrible idea after all.

On the plus side, though, it helps tremendously when you do a bad job training your character (as I have often done).

[Mosquito---Slayer]

On the plus side, though, it helps tremendously when you do a bad job training your character (as I have often done).

One of the solutions could have been to make it harder to use unlimited times, like say charge a thousand coins plus have a hard cap on the number of uses and possibly limiting how many skill points could be redistributed , that would ensure that people won't use it casually but the ones who were in real need could help themselves without needing to use character editor(which feels like cheating).

[Jerakeen]

Assuming we're still talking about A:EFTP, the problem is skill trainers, which are absent in Avadon. Let's say you've trained a skill to 10 and then bought two points. The editor as it stands now will not touch those two points, and we can assume a retrainer would also leave them alone - after all, you've paid for them. So you retrain, resetting all of your natural skill points, and now you want to bring that skill back up to 12. But you can't. As anyone who has tried it knows, purchased skill points count towards the ten-cap unless you get them after reaching it.

 

I don't know why Jeff didn't set it up to track those points separately - just like third-level spells.

[Mosquito---Slayer]

Although unintentional that might actually be a positive thing since it will be another hindrance towards using the editor, people might complain, but they will complain much more if the game balance was not there.

[Leaper]

Hm. I just noticed that, since my lead character is my lockpicker, I won't have enough skill points to get Steel Tornado. Of course, there's the skill retrainer (and I could just open everything before the final battle), but that seems a hassle. If I specialize in the third column, that won't unlock stuff I have 0 skill points in, will it (I'd prefer to get a second level in the middle column for the L7 goodies anyway)? I'd only really miss Shadowwalker's Focus, I suppose, but I'd love to have it.

[Lilith]

Hm. I just noticed that, since my lead character is my lockpicker, I won't have enough skill points to get Steel Tornado. Of course, there's the skill retrainer (and I could just open everything before the final battle), but that seems a hassle. If I specialize in the third column, that won't unlock stuff I have 0 skill points in, will it (I'd prefer to get a second level in the middle column for the L7 goodies anyway)? I'd only really miss Shadowwalker's Focus, I suppose, but I'd love to have it.

 

Yes, specialising in a column will unlock skills even if you don't put any points in them, but the middle column is still better.

 

There are more or less exactly enough skill points to both max out lockpicking and get to 6 points in one of the top-tier skills by level 30, if you don't waste skill points anywhere else. Personally, I'd skip the Shadowwalker's top-tier skills entirely, though: they're not really worth it, especially if you keep a Blademaster in your party for the group battle frenzy buff. For the shadowwalker, just put some points in all three of the lower columns instead.

[Davies]

There are more or less exactly enough skill points to both max out lockpicking and get to 6 points in one of the top-tier skills by level 30, if you don't waste skill points anywhere else.

 

You're overstating the problem a bit. It takes 50 points to unlock the 6 point ability in one of the top tier skills. (5 points in each of the 1st tier of leveling abilities, then 7 in each of the five above them.) Spending 3 points to max out lockpicking still leaves you, by 30th level, with 5 points that could be put into anything. (29 level ups x 2 points per level up = 58 skill points, total.) That might not sound like a lot, but it's enough to put all of your 1st tier skills to level 7 or 8 (BEFORE bonuses for specialization and items), if you're minded.

[Lilith]

You're overstating the problem a bit. It takes 50 points to unlock the 6 point ability in one of the top tier skills. (5 points in each of the 1st tier of leveling abilities, then 7 in each of the five above them.) Spending 3 points to max out lockpicking still leaves you, by 30th level, with 5 points that could be put into anything. (29 level ups x 2 points per level up = 58 skill points, total.) That might not sound like a lot, but it's enough to put all of your 1st tier skills to level 7 or 8 (BEFORE bonuses for specialization and items), if you're minded.

 

Remember, you don't start with a point in the first-tier middle column skill, so it's actually only 3 spare points.

[Davies]

 

 

Remember, you don't start with a point in the first-tier middle column skill, so it's actually only 3 spare points.

 

Agh, you're right ... <embarassed> ... well, you can still get all the 1st tier skills to 7 points with that, or two of them and their dependent second tier skill. (A good build for a razordisk focused Shadowwalker in my view.)

[Death Knight]

Unlike Avernum, I usually make Shima my locksmith as he is still deadly when he loses out on a few points for traps. When you think about it, Nathalie and or the main character are too vital to lose out on skill points. I guess your main character can deal with it, but nathalie needs powerful spells and spell lvls to be highly useful. Thats just my interpretation.

 

Now if you ask me the same question in Avernum, spellcasters have the spare points always. Unless you are roleplaying a rogue for a fighter or archer character.