Finished, What a Game

[GoodOld Jack]

Finished the game avadon: the black fortress with about 32 hours of game time for my first time. I used a sorceress and I really have to say I liked the experience of the game. Not so much the character building, but moreso with the story. If there's one thing that this game has in great detail: Its the top-notch story and excellent game npcs.

 

Ive yet to come across a game where the characters are so real to the point where I feel completely immersed. The only other game series that did that to me was the Baldur's Gate series and Planescape: torment.

 

The only real thing I didnt like with the game was that there is much less character building choices included. It almost seemed like the middle and left choices or (battle and passives) were the only way to go.

 

But those small details are a small price to pay for an awesome roleplaying experience especially seeing that the Crpg nowadays is an unheard of thing.

 

I'm reading on his main page that the President of Spiderweb is going to be making Avadon 2. I can hardly wait. Im hoping that the announcement is soon.

[Catoblepas]

I agree, aside from a few nagging problems I had with the game, Avadon was a great game and a good use of my time and money. One particular thing I enjoyed was how in-depth the interactions were with the party members, it made me feel much more involved in the story than I might have otherwise. By developing a relationship between the PC and the party members that was dependent on my choices. I really hope that Mr Vogel takes this aspect from Avadon to future games, or even the remakes of the older games (for instance, I would absolutely love to have a comparable amount of dialogue content with Alwan/Greta in Geneforge 3)

[Dear Potato]

Yes, indeed. The party interaction was a brilliant detail. Even those little dialogs within the quests, depending on your actions or the companions you bring along.

 

I'm playing "escape from the pit" right now and despite I'm loving the feedom offered, I really miss the chance to have some recruitable fixed characters.

[Randomizer]

The original versions of Avernum 1 to 3 had recruitable NPCs that could replace party members, but there was the extra dialog after they join.

[RetroBoxGER]

Originally Posted By: GoodOld Jack

Finished the game avadon

And I started 3 days ago.

It's absolutely fantastic. The graphics, story, gameplay, it's so exciting and you do not want to stop. You wanna know, what happens next.

7:00pm in Germany. I have to wait another hour and then I can return to Kva. I can't wait I wanna play. I think, I'm addicted

[stars2heaven]

Just wanted to add my voice to this thread instead of starting a new one.

 

I loved the game! I enjoyed the story and the way some characters tried to turn you against Red Beard ( I stayed loyal in the end). I really look forward to the Avadon 2. Hope it comes out soon! Now I'm off to play the Avernum series while I wait.

[Earth]

Avadon 2 comes out prolly before smas for macosx and ~2 months later to windows and ipad.

[Randomizer]

Avadon 2 hasn't started beta testing since Jeff is finishing testing for Avernum 6 for iPad. It takes about 4 months for Mac beta testing depending upon how much game balancing is needed.

[The Reverend]

In the past Jeff has often tried to have the mac version of a new game ready for the holidays - but now that the mac version is probably a smaller percentage of his total sales (what with the new tablet versions), I suspect this is a lower priority for him.

 

I've also often wondered how many people really buy Spiderweb games as holiday presents ... Although maybe the idea was more that people tend to have vacations then and thus have more time to play games.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: The Rev

I've also often wondered how many people really buy Spiderweb games as holiday presents... Although maybe the idea was more that people tend to have vacations then and thus have more time to play games.

Remember, a significant part of Jeff's customer base is parents buying the games for their kids.

[Randomizer]

The release date for Mac versions used to be Thanksgiving week. Jeff tried to get it out before Black Friday before shoppers hit the stores.

[The Reverend]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Originally Posted By: The Rev

I've also often wondered how many people really buy Spiderweb games as holiday presents... Although maybe the idea was more that people tend to have vacations then and thus have more time to play games.

Remember, a significant part of Jeff's customer base is parents buying the games for their kids.

Kids these days ...

<geezer mode>Back when I was a kid, our parents made us spend our OWN money on video games. And then only after walking five miles through the snow to get to school. </geezer mode>

[Upon Mars.]

 

Originally Posted By: The Rev

Back when I was a kid, our parents made us spend our OWN money on video games. And then only after walking five miles through the snow to get to school.

 

I guess from my experience that in some places, it's still that way.

[Akhari Blaze]

I finished Avadon too, finally. Wow.. It’s not been always great, but a couple of battles compensed for everything else. I played on torment with a shaman, it took me a couple of hours to beat Readbeard, a couple of days to beat Zephyrine. Both fights were really hard though. I chose the shaman because I never played one, then coming from the Geneforge series I wanted a summoner, just to keep the continuity. I chose it also because I read it is the weakest class and wanted some challenge. Ultimately I think she isn’t weak at all, certainly weaker than the sorceress (if I start again I would pick a sorceress), but definitely better (for my playstyle) than the blademaster. I gave her the fire/ice cones scarabs so she had some alternatives (acid/poison in the endgame really sucked). I liked to have 2 casters and one for physical damage, so the blademaster didn’t fit my party. I started it two times actually, the first time I arrived at the first Castle Vebaux quest, then started it over (I messed some item enchantments up and it did seem a good excuse, then it turned out unnecessary), in my first try I mostly went with the blademaster to accompany my shaman and Nathalie. Actually it seemed to me that a blademaster, with around 22 strength and the rest in dex, with missile damage items, did more damage than a shadowwalker, so next time (if there will be a next time) I’ll try BM+SO+SH. This party can even butcher enemies from the distance (sharpshooter spray + spirit charge + ice/fire storm, it’s enough to kill most weak enemies without even letting them move).

 

A few considerations:

 

1. graphics are great, I mean they’re good on their own, not only in relation to previous SW games.

 

2. the story, although rather uninteresting for most part of the game, had a final rush where loose ends got tied, and made it enjoyable. I also liked that (as in Geneforge) the ending took in account your actions. I forgot to kill the wizard’s demon and it’s still trapped in the tower..

 

3. the UI and the inventary system is a giant leap (thanks to the junk bag) from Geneforge.

 

4. I liked the tree-like skill system: I liked it because it forces you to specialize the character, but I found many 4th tier abilities not very good, and also the right branch wasn’t up to the others. Only with Shima I reached 6 (with items) to get steel tornado, and probably it wasn’t worth it. Generally I found better to maximize the basic attacks (ranged and melee and magic) and the whole left branch for the sorceress, specializing 3 times in the center branch to get the most defensive bonus. And 4th tier abilities, I could forget about them. I just got Janell have drakes for the last fight, since they could keep Redbeard busy.

 

5. as somebody else wrote, it woul be better if you could remove or “overwrite” enchantments on items.

 

6. often, when I issued the command to hit for a character that wasn’t in range, it moved for more squares than it would have been necessary, sometimes losing the turn, so most times I moved them personally 1 square at the time and had to check if they were in range to attack (for casters, the only way to check this is to select a cone-like ability and check if the target is in range). A bit bothering. I lost a fight with Redbeard (who had almost no life) for this.. Nathalie was in range to unleash its dark bolt but made a step too much, next turn my party was slaughtered.

 

7. I liked that some quests were like fake decoys, and you couldn’t finish them (Gavin, Tarkus). I didn’t like that quest givers told you “come back later”, what’s the problem if a quest is too difficult? You’ll face the danger later, and the next quest from the same person will wait the same. I’d prefer that the quest were assigned like in Geneforge, maybe with a hint that it could be too difficult. This also forced me to come back unnecessarily to places to see if I was ready to take another quest (like for the wrech envoy, Abi, Leira and others for which it isn’t clear that there’s a new quest waiting, as for others that you visit when you’re sent back to a certain region). Even in this last case, how can you know, without having played the game, that new quests will be available when you're told to come back by Redbeard?

 

8. I liked the map-to-map traveling system of Geneforge, where you can enter a map from different sides. In Avadon, instead, you enter a map always in the same spot, and you are forced to travel a lot and lose much time, since maps are very big (not a bad thing in itself). I think this was a major step back from Geneforge. I didn’t like much traveling through pylons either, they damaged the feeling of immersion and of world continuity, hopefully they’ve been destroyed in the attack in the end and won’t be there in Avadon 2, even if I doubt it.. I’d like much more to be free to travel like in Geneforge.

 

9. I liked that you cannot know how many HP creatures have.. Maybe a function for the right mouse button and mouse wheel support would be nice (I remapped the right button to the TAB key with Autohotkey to show the map). Also, the small map is a bit uncomfortable to scroll (maybe with press&drag you could be able to fast-scroll it? And maybe right click on the map to move the party where you click?). Also I read the suggestion to make the big map (TAB) clickable, I also think it would be good.

 

10. I also liked A LOT (contrarily to many other people) that secret buttons can be very hard to find, especially on brick walls (where you had to look for them with the mouse and couldn’t find them just looking at the screen). Secrets must be hard to find! I hope this won’t be changed just because some people complained.. maybe there could be buttons that are easier to spot, others that aren’t.. but it is like this already (depending on the kind of wall). Still, it is rather obvious sometimes, looking at the automap, to know were a secret wall could be. It would be nice if maps didn’t have a fixed dimension, that could have different width and height, so that you could never be sure that there isn’t a secret, if you don’t check it.

 

11. Overall I liked how characters were developed. Only, there were some clichés, like Kellemderiel being like elves or nordics, Kva being like southerners, Khemerians being like American natives (with shamans too) and so on. A bit of already-seen with changed names. I found Nathalie terribly stupid, after having become the keeper I would have liked to be given the choice to dispose of her (like hanged). To feel forgotten by Avadon just because it didn’t help her chasing a dragon in the middle of a civil war was too much to bear. In Baldur’s Gate you could attack your party members, and members had feelings toward each other so some would defend others if attacked (even by you). Now, I wouldn’t expect Sevilin and Janell help me in butchering Nathalie if I felt like it (and I did), but some help from Shima would have been reasonable.

On the other hand, I felt really sorry when I killed one of the main characters (Lord Carsta'Arl, Lady Antje) and I even doubted having done the right thing when I killed Duke Gryfyn, I didn’t mourn him though; also Moritz'Kri was very enjoyable.

 

12. Also, another step back from Geneforge, is that you can’t attack neutral people. I don’t like this. It’s a big limitation for the sense of freedom. I cannot think a reason for this, other than making the game simpler and tightening the scope of the game, but I prefer freedom (maybe with consequences, like being fined, or executed, by Redbeard if you kill innocents and you are caught by doing it).

 

Others will probably come to mind later.. very good game overall, now I’ll start the Avernum EFTP..

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Akhari Blaze

4. I liked the tree-like skill system: I liked it because it forces you to specialize the character, but I found many 4th tier abilities not very good, and also the right branch wasn’t up to the others. Only with Shima I reached 6 (with items) to get steel tornado, and probably it wasn’t worth it. Generally I found better to maximize the basic attacks (ranged and melee and magic) and the whole left branch for the sorceress, specializing 3 times in the center branch to get the most defensive bonus. And 4th tier abilities, I could forget about them. I just got Janell have drakes for the last fight, since they could keep Redbeard busy.

Yeah, some of the higher-tier skills are more useful than others. Both of the Shadowwalker top-tier skills are pretty underwhelming, but on the other hand the Blademaster's upgraded top-right skill is probably the single best skill in the game.

Originally Posted By: Akhari Blaze

12. Also, another step back from Geneforge, is that you can’t attack neutral people. I don’t like this. It’s a big limitation for the sense of freedom. I cannot think a reason for this, other than making the game simpler and tightening the scope of the game, but I prefer freedom (maybe with consequences, like being fined, or executed, by Redbeard if you kill innocents and you are caught by doing it).

Compare Avernum: Escape from the Pit. In that game you could prematurely kill a dragon who knew a password that you needed later on, and a lot of people made threads complaining about the fact that it was possible to do so. Jeff can't please everyone no matter what.