AC3:Retribution at Spidweb, but...

[Shyguy]

The complete version of AC3:Retribution has been posted in the Untried and Untested table here at Spiderweb. Unfortunately, it does NOT contain the correct graphic files. They used the old ones from Part 1, which will not work for the complete version.

 

The game can be downloaded, correct files and all, from Alexandria.

[ben4808]

And did you submit the correct graphics file with the scenario?

 

If you did, be happy you have ol' Brett.

[The Creator]

Cripes, who's in charge of the tables? Bandits 2 seems to have disappeared. Talk about making a mess of things.

[*i]

The ever so helpful Linda Strout of course.

[Donald Hebb]

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

 

Two months, and NTH STILL isn't up there, and now B2 has disappeared. This is outright intolerable. I knew we were going to be mostly abandoned, but this is way beyond the rejection I had anticipated.

 

Bollocks. Utter bollocks.

[Shyguy]

Did you submit your scenario to blades@spiderwebsoftware.com instead of the old blades@spidweb.com?

 

The latter got me nowhere. When I sent to the first address, I got a response.

 

Also, you could try lsstrout@spiderwebsoftware.com as well.

 

Also, I did receive a message stating the correct graphics files have been added. Well...the .bmp file is there, but the .meg file is empty! So Windows players are all set. The Mac people will still need to wait or go to Alexandria.

[Kelandon]

Hey, look on the bright side! At least people can still get BSR's scenarios without trouble.

 

Okay, ranting time.

 

I think it has come time for Spiderweb to do what it should have done years ago, and that is declare BoE abandonware. They should admit that they don't have the first clue what's going on in the BoE universe, that their scenario tables are a joke, that their articles are hopelessly outdated, that Jeff Vogel has not answered users' questions in well over three years, and they utterly disregard about half the Blades-related e-mails that they get.

 

I've told everyone by now that I got into BoE briefly three years ago and then quit, but I've never really explained why. I quit because I couldn't figure out how to interact with other BoE players. I couldn't find the community. I found the Lyceum only after making NK0P and after trying and failing to play a fair number of the scenarios on the Solid Adventures table (back when I trusted the SW tables, thinking that BSR must be one of the most prolific and talented designers). I didn't even look around the Lyceum, because I was just there to get beta testers so that I could get NK0P beta tested and forget about Blades, because by that point I figured that BoE was dead.

 

SW's site is not just unhelpful: it is actively harmful. I played Erika's Legacy thinking that it was one of the classics. After all, it was one of the winners in the First Contest, and several of SW's articles mentioned it. It was rated pretty well on the SW tables, too. It seemed kind of stupid, and I got bored and never finished. I tried Doom Moon II and could make it NOWHERE, because I didn't have anyone whom I could ask for help. (BoE Scenario Help, anyone?)

 

People say, "What if a new downloaded The Grinch, thought it was the best that the community had to offer because of its score, and decided not to stick with BoE because of the obviously pathetic ability of scenario designers if that was the best they could do?" People give this as a hypothetical example, but it's not hypothetical to me. That sort of thing is what I did, three years ago.

 

Spiderweb's scenario tables are the first thing that a newbie finds, and they are the first thing that a newbie trusts. Their current state -- rating some scenarios far higher than they deserve, lacking comments to go with the ratings, not being updated really at all, and generally being terrible -- suggests to new BoE-ers that BoE is dead, especially now that BoA is out. BoE is not dead, and it never will be: Alcritas's scenarios, Stareye's scenarios, and all the other great scenarios that will NEVER be ported to BoA will keep BoE alive for as long as there are computers that will run it, not to mention the continued support at the Lyceum for any form of Blades, either of Exile or Avernum. BUT THERE'S NO WAY TO KNOW THAT IN SPIDERWEB'S SITE!

 

I think that Spiderweb should take down its misleading parts of its web site. I think that SW's BoE section should basically consist of links to more current sites. There should be a link to the Lyceum IN BIG EMBLAZONED FIERY LETTERS, and a link to TMU's links list, and a link to the BoE Web Ring, and maybe even a link to the Designer's Forum in the section on Articles and Examples.

 

I even sent in an article to them, hoping it would get posted on that page. (It was in response to The Perils of 250. Nothing special. Common knowledge by the time, but I didn't know it.) When I got no response -- not even an e-mail back saying, "We don't do this anymore" -- I was pretty well convinced that BoE was dead.

 

Spiderweb needs to drop the pretense and stop driving away new players. Update the links. Tell the truth about Spiderweb updates, and hasten to add that other pages update considerably more frequently, and that BoE players congregate over at the Lyceum's boards. They could even keep selling it, if they wanted. They just need to tell players up front that they have to count on the community that has built up elsewhere, not on the company that sells the product.

 

Eh, ranting mode off. I don't know if I even agree with myself, here, but I think these points are worth thinking over, anyway. I'm sure I'm not saying anything terribly new, but I am saying it at a different point in time than it has been said before, and context may make a difference.

[Shyguy]

"I think it has come time for Spiderweb to do what it should have done years ago, and that is declare BoE abandonware. They should admit that they don't have the first clue what's going on in the BoE universe"

I agreee whole-heartedly with this statement in particular!

 

In fact, I am very undecided as to whether I will design any scenarios for BoA. Why should I? Why would I want to support Spiderweb any further? Why would I want to help Spiderweb sell more copies of it's software when I receive nothing in return? What recognition do I get from Spiderweb? We could all ask ourselves these questions.

 

Of course, there is the BoE community, and now, the growing BoA community. I suppose they count for something. (Of course they do!) So, what do I do? I don't know right now. But if I do decide to contribute to BoA, it will be with very mixed feelings.

[Kelandon]

It took some finding, but here it is. Shyguy, you're not the only one with misgivings. I think a good many of us have them, and in this old thread , we can see that Alcritas (among others) is one. I have mixed feelings, too.

 

But eh. The question is, what would we want Spiderweb to do? My main issue is with the way they present their web site. At least they should have good links, if not good content.

[Tonweya]

What to do?

May I suggest using E-mail, etc., rather than this board.

I'm a mere amature compared to many of you, certainly the programmers who can and do provide us with this tremendous variety of scenarios.

I, for one, have played many of the scenarios and have been downloading them from Alex rather than here, simply because the format, (descriptions), is much more comprehensive.

Natural selection will evolve a "preferred" site and we can all be happy campers, rather than concerned that there are problems.

me

[ben4808]

Quote:

I think it has come time for Spiderweb to do what it should have done years ago, and that is declare BoE abandonware.

Would that mean poeple could get it for free?

Quote:

May I suggest using E-mail, etc., rather than this board.

Er, E-mail is too buggy and we don't get to read what other people have to say.

And I do agree, Spiderweb should majorly up their customer service. And yes, if Jeff has lost interest in what people think and are using his game for, he shouldn't still be making money on it. Here we have a BoE community, and now over there's a BoA community that's more active--for now. Anyway, another rather senseless rant that I lost myself in. </post>

[*i]

The only reason I design in Blades is because of the community, because there is an audience. That, and it's good to have a hobby.

 

Blades of Exile is not dead, maybe to Spiderweb it is, but to the community, it is not. I will probably not design in it anymore, but there are still a LOT of good works in it. Actually, I think Jeff and co. don't think they've abandoned it, they just drastically underestimate the amount of service time that is required.

 

Seriously though, they should really remake their Blades of Exile page with pointers to the big resources for it. I think it is time they stop pretending to service a product they don't really want to and aren't really doing.

 

Also, BoE, the game and editor, should become open source software. They can still sell and market it for those without a compiler and the donations can still make them money. But seriously, so much has changed about the engine that it really doesn't matter anymore. It would be nice to be able to rip through the guts of that program and maybe even fix a few features that don't work.

 

However, they'll give you the Monopoly argument. I hate to say it, but that is a false analogy because board games really do not get outdated. Perhaps we will reach a time when computer games will NEVER become outdated because we will have maximized all that can be done with computing, but I doubt that will be for many centuries.

 

Those are my feelings at least.

[+rosycat]

*claps for all*

 

Jeff must know how good some of the scenarios out there are. He judged the first contest, and people improve with time. With Tatterdemalion and Nephil's Gambit made in the first year of Blades, anyone with half a brain knows even better stuff will come with time. How can he keep pulling all this "AUGHAUGAUGH YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE TEH MASTERWORKS AS FUN 2 PLAY AS BANDIT BUSYWORK SO I SHAL NOT GIVE U TEH TOOLS" bull****? Man.

 

He said on that thread, and admittedly it was a while ago, that he needed non-designer players to ask for things.

 

WELL, MISTER VOGEL, I THINK YOU SHOULD CHANGE THINGS, IF YOU EVER READ THIS THREAD, WHICH YOU LIKELY WON'T.

 

x

 

non-designer Rosycat

[Dragyn Bob]

If the quality of new scenarios comes to a halt because the editor has reached its limits too early because of bugs and faults, then popularity and enjoyment among non-designers (ie. players) will also stagnate. So if he wants feedback from non-designers, I am also demanding that Jeff give the support that the community needs to keep it going.

[Silent Motion]

My suggestion to Jeff - made many times - is to just bundle BoE with BoA as an extra. Offer no support for it (they really don't offer any now, so no loss there), and bundle the source w/it.

 

I can't see anyone losing with this scheme, though I'm sure Jeff would argue otherwise!

[ben4808]

Of course, BoA is a new game with great money potential...

[qwd]

It's about BoE here, silly.

[bogus standard candidate]

I read Kel's rant and found myself agreeing a lot with it.

 

I played BoE scenarios way way back when they first began to come out. I played only a couple (I think there were less than fifty at the time) and was a bit dissapointed, not that they sucked (at least that's not the residual memory I have) but because they seem. . . well, I disagreed back then with the ratings. I was trying to remember the names of the ones I played, and reading Rosy's post, Tatterdemalion was definitely one of them. Don't know what I thought.

 

But I got tired and stop.

 

Now, after lurking in the lyceum and reading in different threads what people are saying I want to do so badly.

 

So, a few weeks ago I downloaded the BoE.

 

This is something you all know, but it struck me as huge surprise and immense (gargantuan!) surprise that I had to wait for a CD!!

 

Lately, all of SW games can be registered through the Internet.

 

The CD is an annoyance of no limits to me. I live outside of the US. My national mail is a worse joke than a hybrid of Pauly Shore and Carrot Top.

I get things through my sis who lives there, but it's expensive and I have to wait until I have 100$ worth of things. Which lately is very difficult due to the economic conditions down here. Eventually I'll get it, but damn it all to the basement of the seventh level of hell! Why can't I register that game in a proper way.

 

I got into SW because of the Exile series (which I still think are gorgeous game with a grandiose level of elegance to them, and I'm not saying this just because) but I have to wait for CDs. . .!!!!

 

Damn it all.

 

Two things before I post this:

 

1) Do you know of a way I can register these games other than with a CD? Seems impossible, but I figure if any one knew, you guys would.

 

2) Sorry about the rant. But it's frustratiing and annoying. Heck, the Exile trilogy I can register with a registration code, why not BoE?!?!?!

 

Salud!

[Drakefyre]

Email Jeff and ask where you can download the full version while waiting for the CD.

[DesertPlah]

Well, I've only got one thing to say, if it needs be said.

 

If action is warranted on our part (isn't Drakey allowed to do the forum link stuff?) then I am willing to devote some time (though I don't have much, it's my senior year this year) to whatever the higher-ups of the BoE community want to do, if they want to do anything to keep the BoE comm alive or whatever.

 

Just saying, if anyone decides to take action, I lend whatever service I may have, seeing as BoE is the only Spidweb game I registered other than Exile 1, and the only one I play.

[ben4808]

I thought the order form that comes with the unregistered version said you can get BoE on three floppies, and that the CD is optional. Or I could be wrong.

 

Quote:

Email Jeff and ask where you can download the full version while waiting for the CD.

If such a place exists, it had sure better be a secure site.

[Reality Corp.]

Edit: Forget I said anything. And ben is a wierdo. But I'm sure you all knew that by now.

 

In any case, this topic is dead and anyone who happens to stumble upon shall see whatever it is that is here. For those people, go away, there's nothing to see.

 

So what shall I write here? Well, perhaps....anything? Yeah, that's what I'll write, anything!! MWAHAHA.

 

Er..

 

Hey, why not, I shall do this with any old topic I posted in! See if you can find all of them! Maybe, just maybe, you will and then you'll feel like you have a sense of security for once in your life, followed along with a sense of accomplishment! Who knows, maybe you'll even become the next president of the US! (But I sure as heck won't vote for you).

 

I'll continue my message elsewhere...

 

Edit: Special note - two posts below was the one and only post to ever be edited by a moderator/admin (in this case, both) because of discussion of cracks and warez, even though it really wasn't, and for the fact that IT WASNT! But I can still see why it was edited, not really, but kinda. Not everyone is stupid after all...

[ben4808]

Er, it doesn't work until you have the registered version. And you have to wait for the CD to get the registered version. Is that what you mean?

[Reality Corp.]

Let's just not put this out in the open where everyone can see it.

[ben4808]

Would this be considered "cracking the game"? In other words, it would be cheating for people who haven't bought the game.

 

*drumroll*

 

Will the topic be locked?

[Reality Corp.]

In a way, yes it would be cracking the game. In the other sense, it's the authors fault for making it publicly available...on his own site. Take it as you will, but I'm just pointing out the obvious again.