bogus standard candidate

Hey Mike. I don't know if it's a bug. There are some problems with dialogue choices in the game. One is in that Island with Lankin as you pointed out (I also went to talk to him after clearing the bugs but couldn't do much). (later on in the game I found a bit of a dialogue bug, if that the correct nomenclature, with Agatha and the Serviles of Stonespire. And there were other dialogue choices I'd like to have seen, but I've forgotten what they were) However, if you want to send an e-mail to Jeff reporting this, it won't be a bad idea. Worse thing that can happen is that things will remain the same, however, maybe Windows users might get a more complete game.

Dolphin et al. Re: Shaper movement through the world. It's interesting what you say (Dolphin) about their m.o. Do you think there are other Sucia Islands out there? It's a good point that the Shapers knew nothing about the Scholai (or at least our character didn't) because I wonder if that can be seen as a contradiction: they seem to be a group that is hellbent on controlling information (specially their own) yet they haven't explored the world enough to know who else populates it. Wouldn't they enforce a stronger observation of their world? That's why I wish the games would give us a little more information about that world. From GF1 we learned that the Scholai were a nation of sailors/merchants, yet they had not met the Shapers before (apparently, or I'm remembering wrong). Is it because it's very treacherous to navigate in that world? Also. . . again with the memory problem, but I think the Capo di tutti drakoni (sp?) has a pool that works as a scrying device. Is he the only one that posseses such a thing? If he can scry other places, has he been able to scry other portions of the world? Because in such an all out war as the one that is scourging the Shaper's right now, I'd imagine that the Drakons would use as much help as possible and so would the Shapers. Now, we've been told the bad stuff has been happening in Terrestria which is a more or less isolated part of the world. Fine. But how isolated is it? What do you guys think? As for animal life in general: the Shapers way of establishing their colonies might also explain why we see no other life form other than their creations and some non-intrussive life forms such as birds, since as Shell pointed out we hear their chirps on the soundtrack (at least, I hope they are birds. maybe something else? although that's probably reaching). A rather practical way of life (?) in a way since they have even reduced their lifestock to ornks. However: what did the Shapers use as lifestock before they learned to create ornks? Perhaps there was lifestock and the Shapers in their obsession to create and control their environment did away with it? And while we're at it, what about game? These guys are a mystery. When I play these games I always get these very strong Falloutesque feeling. I have this feeling that there was some kind of holocaust in the world. That the proto-Shapers survived this holocaust and learned the art of Shaping as a form of survival as well as controlling their environment. But, then again, sometimes I get the feeling that this is a Dying Earth (or wolf's Dying Sun) and this world is actually the Earth (the fact that the continent is called Terrestria just messed with my mind even more, though it more than likely has nothing to do with anything Earth related (not to mention the Scholai with their name that reminds me of Scholars (though they are merchants and sailors) and Kievians (Kievans?) and Vikings)) And the name of the darned Island means Dirty in Spanish! But in Maritine Spanish it means Rocky!!! And then I find this thanks to google. (Sucia Island is a rocky island.) (and there's also an Archeological site in El Salvador called Cara Sucia, but maybe this is reaching) All I know is that this is one funky, interesting world and I hope we can learn more about it in future games. One more. Turrets and Mines: The former has an awareness of its surroundings and the latter has a level of feelings, albeit a primitive one. I can't wait until a crazy Shaper decides to enhance these basic tenets and next thing you know we have chatty turrets and mines who waste their live away philosophizing and plotting (no pun intended) world domination.

Hi. Sorry to ask a question that is slightly off topic: How about the "lower" creations such as "living tools," "traps," "mines," etc. (Pylons too, they also leave gemstones like Spawners. . . a coincidence? Why are gemstones important in the making of those two creations?) These creations are all alive at a certain level. I suppose they don't have intelligence, as such, but. . . are they like trees, for instance? If such is the case, in our world there are those who adore trees to a fantatical level. Are there those in the Shaper world who adore and respect the rights of the "lower" creations to the same fanatical extent? Also, the funky plants (the one who throw acid splashes and the one that "cast?" inferno) leave behind them regular thorns. Both of them. Is that because they are essentially the same, the only difference being, perhaps, the incantation that is cast (shaped?) at some point during the creation? I wonder, thinking about the possibilities of GF4 and the fact that we may not begin as a Shaper, if that would mean that the Scholai (to name the only non-Shaper group I know of, other than the Drakons and their ilk) are going to become involve in this war. One thing I wish could change about these games is that I'd like to have a better idea of how this world is, geopolitically speaking. How much of the world is reigned by the Shapers? What are the other societies/nations/groups that exist? Are the Shaper lands exclusively theirs? (what I'm trying to say is something like this: Are the Shapers surpreme over all of the American continent or are there other groups of people?) Because as this War gets worse and worse, it seems to me that some other groups will take the advantage to join one side or other or simply use the power struggle to their advantage in another way. A very stupid question: are there birds in these worlds? (I can almost want to say that I remember a description or two mentioning them.) Also, are there any domestic animals? Or for that matter cattle and such. The only cattle like animal I can think of are the Ornk. What is the role of Shades in all these? What are their rights? Necromancy is frowned upon, or so we have been told in the games. Are we doing them a favor by killing them (like for instance those three ghosts who ask you to kill them in the Pit of the Bound in GF2) or not? Salud!

Yur right, sir. But. . . er. . . maybe they enjoy the pain since they feel they are somehow using that pain to punish themselves for their sins? Maybe they are all Irish monks who. . . Okay. I can't justify how that would be a good idea. Nope. Just can't. Can't even say that that somehow explains why the adventurers are better than anybody else. That was just one bad, bad idea. (who would it be worse for, men or women?)

Depends on where I am in the game. In general, though: Fyoras/Thads at the beginning (I avoid Vlish and Artilas, but that's just me. They both have sympathizers, specially the Tentacle beauties (no sarcasm there)) Drayks/Plated Bugs. (I sometimes use Battle Alphas, but if I go that route I wait a bit for Battle Gammas who stick around in the party a bit longer) Cryodrayks when I can have them. I use them for the entire game if possible. Eyebeasts are indeed tough mammas (or daddas, or dadaist if that makes any sense), but they exhaust their energy way too fast and are way too expensive. I rather have a couple of gazers. Drakons: okay. I create one or two (if I can) just for kicks and grins. I love the rotghroth. It takes a while to create them, but once I hardly ever have a party without one. My all time favorite combo though, is: a brainwashed follower of the Ornk Lord (you can find one in each game but you have to be a big fan of Banana Splits to start on that secret route), a Golem, a Translourescent Shade and a servile to serve as a beast of burden, feet washer/polisher and general all around lackey.

With Essence and Health pools you (and your creations) just need to stand next to them and your health/essence/energy will regenerate fairly fast. (note, this also works in combat mode but of course it's slower)

Don't remember the exact number but 340 something. No kidding. I wandered a lot.

(a general want: even though it seems it will use a similar engine to that of the GF games, I hope it looks as far remove from GF and as close to the previous Averna games as possible. GF3 had bathrooms, though (or I thought they were bathrooms, maybe they were something else) so that can part of GF can be used. Heck, who knows, we may even have to play it singleton (no party choice) and all the critters will be of a general variety (I guess creations will be pushing it too far. Maybe we'll have three types: Goblin stuff, Giant stuff and Invisible stuff stuff.)) Kilts that can be worn over armor (underneath the armor, of course, nothing is worn) Will this be the first Avernum without Erika? Can her ashes play a part in the storyline somehow? Maybe she can appear as a ghost. An Avernum game without Erika scarcely bears thinking about. Well. . . this is a pipe dream, an perhaps not the worthiest worth dreaming of but. . . how about being able to fight with two weapons? I said this before, excuse the redundancy: please, please, no regional division of the game. Please. (oh and another redundant please: no more of the Big Bad Guy kind of plotline. A plot like 1 or 2 in as far as there were multiple major quests and though the Empire was the main bad guy in the 1st, there were other things the party was trying to accomplish. Similarly with A2 where we had to deal with the Empire and the Vahnatai.)

I get all the Hint books, but that's just me being anal retentive. They are alright. But sooner or later there'll be a Walkthrough for Geneforge 3, and you can always come to the boards and ask your questions. So, if you have better uses for the 7 bucks or so that it costs, don't bother.

I've played the three within the last month. I think they're all pretty much the same. The pros and cons in each of them, for me, more or less cancel each other out (within the parameters of the general feeling/mechanics/gameplay of these games). So if you've like the GF series so far, you'll probably like GF3 as well. Jeff isn't re-inventing the GF wheel. It seems that GF4, at least plot wise, will be different. We'll see next year (I guess).

*) A second ring, at least. #) Be able to equip both missile and melee weapons. !) More creatures, different creatures. It seems that this world is either bereft of nasty critters (outside of creations and shades, which some have been illegally shaped). () It makes sense that we begin as a human, or servile. That way Jeff can keep up his leitmotiv of being amazed by the things we see (look a spawner, look a drakon!). -) Not as much better dialogues (they're alright but could be improved), but make sure that we have dialogue choices according to our actions. An example: If I kill the Serviles in Stonespire, why can't I tell this to Agatha? Instead she goes hell bent on killing them all and the game acts as if she did. Other examples of this type exist in all three games. %) It seems we're going back to a continent, but if we aren't and we'll have the same structure as GF3, then an easier way to retrace our steps to previous areas. $) Shops where you can buy back what you sold. ^) More creations. @) This is a pipe dream and will never, ever happen: be able to export characters to the next game. )) Another pipe dream: be able to carry our plotline to the next game. +) And yet another pipe dream: be able to start the game with a party of adventurers. ~) Ignore the last three.

3) I had the same problem with the Wand of Inferno. I finally (finally!) found one, if I'm not mistaken, while exploring Gull Island (needless to say the experience rewarded at that time was negligible, but I finally saw that quest completed, I had felt like a fool for using the Wand of Inferno so early in the game (I went to the Creator's lair very early, after only about 7 or so explored regions. . .))

Boats: true, they give you an idea how treacherous it is to navigate between the islands. It was a okay the first few times. Then it became an sufferable annoyance (I postpone any inter-island traveling as much as possible). I do wonder: most, if not all, games have points where the reality of the game and opur reality compromise (saved games, for instance), so I wonder if having the choice of which island to travel would not have been such a compromise. Am I remembering this right: I believe this happened in Gull island (yeah. . . 99.999% certain it was there). I was approached by a lone servile in one of the regions (It was a cave/lab place). This servile had the Learned title. He told me that she could try to talk on my behalf so that I would join the side of the rebels. He struck me as an Awakened. Do you guys know whom I'm talking about? With the war raging so strongly, I actually think it makes some sort of sense that there are no Awakened since they might have been swallowed by the rebel factions (they might have existed as a small settlement, if that. I'm sure (sure?) that they wouldn't have lasted in such a situation. The Shapers would want to see them gone, and the rebels would probably have given them an ultimatum: with us or against us. Period. What I ended up liking more and tied the whole game for me was the end text. For some reason when I read that I felt more excited than I had at any other time (almost) throughout the game. The realization of the war finally sunk in (probably because throughout the game I was thinking other things or thinking about the different fights so I had just taken for granted we were at war (yeah, yeah, war. but how the heck do I kill these two annoying Servant Minds, stop healing each other damn you, kind of distractions). I think (I'll have to wait until I play GF2 again and play GF3 again) that this text ending was the one I've liked the most. Well. He promised that bad things were going to hit the fan, and they have. I also tried to play this game Middle of the Road at first (well, I lie. I was playing a Shaper who simply thought we, as Shapers had been too rough on certain rights of the Creations), but as the gam progressed, I found my answer were more and more geared against the rebels and servile rights (almost 3/5 in favor, instead of 5/5 as they had used to be) It seems that in GF4 we might start as a non-Shaper, which is mighty interesting. It also seems the plot will be rather different, I wonder what that will be (fast forward a year or so while we kill time as we anxiously await for GF4 and discuss such things. Heh)

Eztaren: sorry if this seem obvious: You have to wait until the game tells you about your inability to kill him. Once that happens, then search on the pots on the western side of the room (I think there are a few of them close to each other). You'll get an message and an option to destroy it or something else. Luck!

KMK: There are two lab-like regions before the Geneforge. Each of them has a piece of the Bracelet. I don't remember where exactly in each of them, but I remember there were "tough" guardians in each. One of them is in the NE part of the region, in a section that is sealed and you can only get by pulling levels, the guardian is a special Golem creature. The other piece is in. . . I think. . . western part of the other lab-like region (wait, I think it was near the center by a big crystal (I hate not having the game in this computer so I can check these things)) Anyway, hope this vagueness has helped somewhat. No clue as to #2.

A2, same reasons as those listed above. Playing the entire trilogy is satisfying, though, and they all have cool little things. The first one has a very well done subplot with a small town called "For Remote," among many other things. I enjoyed the division of chapter in A2. A3 is the longest, and perhaps if all you want is to explore and kill stuff that's the one to try out (specially if you only want to play one), but I think that it is more emotional if you've played A1 and A2, since in A3 you get to see the surface, and after two whole games inside the caves fighting for that chance you miss something if you just start with A3. On the other hand, since it's not a bad idea to start with the first game in a series, you could got with A1, and if you like it, continue with the rest.

I'm playing now again and I'm joining them all, one at a time. After I join the Takers (next), I'll take advantage of their stuff, and then, in a few levels, I'll probably start killing them all. They are all insane (the Awakened are the least insane of all. Zakary is okay. The Barzites are probably the worst. Or maybe the Takers (the pastime of the Barzites to turn people in shapers by canisterized them is scary. The Takers detest the Shapers alone, so they say, but one wonders when will the Drakons decide that they can rule the entire world. Period. As for the Unalaigned/Loyalists, these are the guys that, in the end, began this whole mess with their crazy experiments in Sucia Island. Fine that they barred it, but couldn't they predict that the serviles would develop their own desire for independence eventually (is their arrogance so blinding)? Also, barring it is one thing, why didn't they destroy the Geneforge??? We're all in this mess because of that pesky thing! Now all Terrestria is being torn asunder with flames of destruction. I've got family there! Friends! Buried treasure!)

Morwen: Learned Thalni should tell you how to get to Gazak-Uss. Exhaust all the dialogue options. You may want to try the way in, just in case, but I think it only works when he tells you. There are two pillars in front of the gate. Look at them. (but, as I said, I doubt this will work without talking to Thalni) (I just went to Hermit's Wilderness to check. Thalni doesn't tell me anything about how to get through the gate because I already opened/he already told me. So, Morwen, try and look at the pillars in front of the gate and hopefully you will open it)

SS: yup, only one per item, and some items can't be enchanted. Frogo: check this thread it has the recipes to create items. Is that what you were asking?

Thanks Drakey, for the quote. It's interesting to read stuff like that, since one can understand better what went on behind the scenes as far as decision making. I hope he sticks to his idea that in #4 we won't start as a Shaper. The fact that he also has a different plot for #4, that it will break the Geneforge routine is wonderful. An aside note: I'm playing GF2 again. Does the Infernal Shaper in the "Experimental Chambers" turn into a Demon if I attack him? I have this residual memory that a Demon can be fought in GF2, but. . . am I remembering something or is that an invented memory?

Trinity: I opened that box. I had to pump quite an amount of skill points into mechanics (luckily I usually wait a few levels before I distribute them, so I could try the experiment with a previous save.) I think it takes about 15 points or so (I forget, but it was high). Oh, no. . . wait. . . I think I didn't even turn off the trap but jut let it explode in my face and survive with one hit point? (that's impossible, isn't it?) I don't remember anymore. I did open it. What's behind the door that makes you be very afraid? I never manage to get in. Do you have to be allied with the Rebels? As for that trapped box: This is a Major Spoiler. Read At Your Own Risk. If You Continue Reading You Will be Spoiled. Don't Say I Didn't Warn You. Are You Sure You Wanna Be Told And Not Find By Your Self? Positive? Last Chance!!! Ok. You Asked For It. (there's trash. that's it. far as i know it's not magical trash or anything like it. yeah. whoever left that there had quite the sense of humour.)

Yup. Like to see them all green. With the Island system it's easier. In GF1/2 I was mad as hell (but taking it more) when I saw the map and saw those tempting, fun making, condescending red regions. Hah Hah you can't explore me. Hah hah (evil Nelson laugh)

If I remember this correctly, Jeff mentioned that the idea for A4 has been on his mind for quite a while, actually since the days of E1. If that's so, then maybe this game will be Avernum centric, no surface (I love the surface, but not as much as those guys in the caves, and there's so much more that can be done. New cave systems. Political situations between the three main races (four if he puts the Vahnatai in the mix) Well. It's done. The milk is spilt. Enough people who know have mentioned already in this thread that the A4 engine will borrow from GF. That's that. Hope he borrows good things, and not the bad. Turn base all the way. Please. The only turn based RPG I've played in recent years, other than SW stuff that I enjoyed to a certain degree (some problems) was ToEE. No region division, please. Please. It may help it look more. . . "organized" but that's, I think, in the end illusory. Open outdoors with dungeon/towns that you access through general outdoors area. Please. No singleton oriented game, please. Let that be a choice one can make, not the norm. I'm fine in GF with going with cutesy critters, but that's GF (which doesn't even have GIFTS, so let's keep the two worlds as separate as possible, please) Area spells. Not more spells as such, but more Useful spells. We could have 12653 Spells but if all we use are 12, then what's the use? Exageration aside, I miss the spell system of Exile, and that of Nethergate was nice (it had "schools" as well, which is not too shabby) Multiple paths, multiple endings. That has been one of the things I've enjoyed the most out of the GF games. Granted that all Exile/Avernum games have had one ending (well, you had more if you continue with the different major quests, but no choice as such.) Multiple groups to join and help. This may all seem hellish, scripting wise, and if he goes that way it may make the game smaller, but heck if that means we sacrifice vastness (a la E3/A3) for well done storyline (a la Nethergate or E2/A2 or whichever you think has the best storyline) then let's do it. I think. I'm okay with the three races. A few, not many, skills that are race oriented would not be bad, and it would make some sense (besides the initial bonuses you get) More extra skills that you get as you play. I loved those, and I thought it made sense since a character can learn new things by living through the adventure. Hmmm. Maybe if we go back to period before E3 we can have Erika around again. I'd like that. I'll miss her if we go after A3, and if so, then heck maybe it'd be nicer to see it a few generations later. Well, I'll be weary with this GF engine thing until I see some screenshots and see how it looks, and of course until I play it. I like Geneforge a good deal, for what it is and in it's own cul-de-sac. We shall see. Cheers!

There's a lever. It's hidden behind a tree somewhat to the south of the gate. Move your mouse around the area slightly to the south of the gate and you should see it. Good luck.

Arcanum was pretty good (hated the last part, though). I liked Divine Divinity far more than I thought I would. Planescape (that's not that recent, though). Knights of the Old Republic, the first, the second just wasn't as good, and I hope Obsidian makes something better in the future. What do you think? (I hope Dungeon Lords is good. Wizards and Warriors just wasn't.)