computer advice

[The Mystic]

My laptop has been giving me a lot of grief lately, so I've decided it's time to start looking for a replacement; this time I'm getting a desktop computer. However, instead of buying a pre-built computer like I've always done, I'm planning to build it myself. Since I've never done this before, and I don't really trust salespeople or the internet for this type of advice, I thought it best to ask here.

 

Here's what I'm planning thus far:

• operating system: Windows 7 Home Premium, though I haven't decided whether to go with 32-bit or 64-bit.
• mouse & keyboard: I plan to use the ones I bought to use with my laptop; I've already checked to make sure they're compatible with Win7, and they are.
• tower: I was told it really doesn't matter, as long as everything fits.
• hard drive: approx. 500GB
• RAM: 4GB minimum
• CD/DVD drive: I plan to have two; one to read everything, and one strictly for writing.
• motherboard: I haven't decided yet, but I know it has to be compatible with everything else.
• processor: I haven't decided yet, but I know it needs to be compatible with the motherboard. Also, I don't plan to overclock.

[Earth]

64bit Windows is must if you plan to get at least that 4GB since 32bit doesn't recognize all memory.

 

mouse are keyboard are compatible with W7 except maybe extra buttons etc if those need driver and no driver hasn't made.

 

any midi-tower is good but on some there's extra fans installed or place for those.

 

HD-space is cheap so get 1 TB drive.

 

price between DVD-reader and DVD-writer isn't that big that so you can buy 2 DVD-writers.

 

Intel's Core ix-processors some need 3 memory banks (socket 1366) and some need 2 memory banks (socket 1156) so on 1sst case you need 6GB ram minimum and on 2nd case 4GB ram min. AMD's processors need 2 banks.

 

depending what proicessor you want what kind of motherboard you need.

 

Intel has better processors than AMD but AMD's processors are cheaper so depending on your budget what kind of things can be recommended.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

64bit Windows is must if you plan to get at least that 4GB since 32bit doesn't recognize all memory.

I was kind of leaning towards 32-bit, since that's what I'm used to, and most of my programs are for 32-bit operating systems. From what you're saying, I'll probably be better off with the 64-bit version; if I have compatibility issues with my 32-bit programs, I can always run them in VirtualBox.

Quote:

mouse are keyboard are compatible with W7 except maybe extra buttons etc if those need driver and no driver hasn't made.

Both the keyboard and mouse can be run without downloading a driver. The mouse has two programmable side buttons, but if the driver is incompatible, I can easily do without until I need a new mouse.

Quote:

any midi-tower is good but on some there's extra fans installed or place for those.

That's good, because the tower's going to be rather crowded. The more cooling available, the better.

Quote:

HD-space is cheap so get 1 TB drive.

I was thinking of maybe using a 320-GB hard drive that I currently have collecting dust in a shell; it's not that old, and is mostly empty anyway. If I can't use it as my main hard drive, I can always buy another one; I've already planned for this possibility in my budget.

Quote:

price between DVD-reader and DVD-writer isn't that big that so you can buy 2 DVD-writers.

Well, my plan was to use one drive strictly for reading, and the other strictly for writing. However, I considered what you said, and checked out the site of the store where I'm going to buy all the parts. It appears I can buy 2 writers without too much impact on my budget.... Maybe I'll have the strict read/write policy only apply to the blu-ray format.

Quote:

Intel's Core ix-processors some need 3 memory banks (socket 1366) and some need 2 memory banks (socket 1156) so on 1sst case you need 6GB ram minimum and on 2nd case 4GB ram min. AMD's processors need 2 banks.

depending what proicessor you want what kind of motherboard you need.

Intel has better processors than AMD but AMD's processors are cheaper so depending on your budget what kind of things can be recommended.

The store I plan to go to usually has some sort of motherboard/processor combo deal in each ad, so I can find more or less what I need at a discount.

By the way, my total budget is $800-1000US.

[Earth]

with that amount of money you can get near top end pc.

 

32bit progs work 99 out of 100 cases on 64bit os.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

with that amount of money you can get near top end pc.

That's more or less the idea, plus it'll give me more flexibility. I also have a bit of a knack for bargain-hunting, so there's a good chance I can be as much as $200 under budget and still get the computer I want--or spend my full budget and get something better.

Pre-built computers are nice, but I don't want to go through the hassle of removing a ton of trial software I'll never use; and upgrading them can be a pain, except maybe the memory.

Quote:

32bit progs work 99 out of 100 cases on 64bit os.

Oh goody. And anything that won't work I can either download the 64-bit version (thank God for freeware), or like I said above, run it in a 32-bit environment with VirtualBox.

[Earth]

if you buy Win7 Pro you can install WinXP-mode on that (it is virtual WinXP so progs which worked on XP but not at 7 can be run via that).

[The Mystic]

I already own a copy of WinXPSP3 on CD, and VirtualBox is freeware. Most of the programs I run are also freeware, so it's no big deal finding a Win7-compatible version, should I need it. Besides, I've checked out Win7 Home Premium, and it's more than sufficient for my needs, with the added benefit of being cheaper than Win7 Pro.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Well, my plan was to use one drive strictly for reading, and the other strictly for writing.

Do you have any particular reason? That seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.

Also, you seem to have neglected a video card.

[The Ratt]

I'm not too familiar with building a PC, but don't you also need a power source? Specifically a power source with the same voltage as your motherboard?

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: The Ratt

I'm not too familiar with building a PC, but don't you also need a power source? Specifically a power source with the same voltage as your motherboard?

If he buys an ATX power supply of at least 400W, he'll be fine. As for voltages, those are universal.

[Dantius]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Also, you seem to have neglected a video card.

It is important to note that it is impossible to regret buying too nice a video or graphics card.

It is, however, very easy to regret not buying a nice graphics card. Seriously.

[Rowen]

Everything for a computer minus the OS, keyboard/mouse, monitor. Everything was taken from Newegg.com to make build that was in your budget. I went with AMD since I have not had problems with their CPUs.

 

Click to reveal..

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black EIDE/ATAPI Model SH-S222A - OEM

Item #: N82E16827151175

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$16.99

 

 

COOLER MASTER Elite 370 Black Steel / Plastic Computer Case

Item #: N82E16811119226

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

$49.99

 

 

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Item #: N82E16822136073

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$54.99

 

 

ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

Item #: N82E16813131646

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$119.99

 

 

ASUS CuCore Series EAH5770 Cucore/G/2DI/1GD5 Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...

Item #: N82E16814121395

Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$149.99

 

 

CORSAIR Builder Series CMPSU-600CX 600W ATX12V v2.3 Active PFC Power Supply

Item #: N82E16817139019

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$79.99

 

 

Patriot G Series ‘Sector 5’ Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model PGV34G1333ELK

Item #: N82E16820220435

Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy

$20.00 Mail-in Rebate Card

$87.99

 

 

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX

Item #: N82E16819103727

Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$159.99

1

 

Newegg AMD Vision Modern WarFare2 T-shirt Size Large

Item #: N82E16800996100

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

-$19.95 Saving

$19.95

$0.00

 

 

COOLER MASTER R4-C2R-20AC-GP 120mm Case Fan

Item #: N82E16835103061

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

$29.97

($9.99 each)

 

 

CORSAIR Cooling Hydro Series CWCH50-1 120mm High Performance CPU Cooler

Item #: N82E16835181010

Return Policy: Standard Return Policy

Protect Your Investment (expand for options)

$79.99

 

Subtotal: $829.88

 

You could upgrade a few things if you wanted like the computer case or the CPU. But never go cheap on the Motherboard or the CPU so that you do not bottleneck your computer in the future. Also visit Overclock.net with questions. They are very helpful.

[Earth]

1GB memory on Radeon 5770 is bit waste and also Kingston's memories might be cheaper.

[Niemand]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

Newegg AMD Vision Modern WarFare2 T-shirt Size Large

Clearly the most vital component.

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

Kingston's memories might be cheaper

RAM prices are likely to have small random variations among manufacturers and retailers. Since RAM is a relatively cheap and easily replaceable component, it's probably more important in the long run to make sure that your system can be upgraded with more of it later than agonizing over the details for it now.

(I really wish that Apple built in more than a factor of two of room for RAM upgrades in the their laptops. In both of the laptops I've owned I've gotten them with the minimum amount of RAM initially, then filled them up later with cheaper, third party RAM. Unfortunately, there's only room for one such step up, so now I'm stuck at 4 GB now until I get a completely new computer, which I'm not going to do for a couple more years at least.)

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Well, my plan was to use one drive strictly for reading, and the other strictly for writing.

Do you have any particular reason? That seems like a pretty arbitrary decision.

For the reading drive: I make semi-frequent use of my local library's music and video sections. And because I still live at home, I don't always have the luxury of playing what I want on the DVD player, etc. Therefore, my CD/DVD drive gets a lot of use.

For the reading drive: I'm notorious for making multiple backup copies of just about everything.

So, short version: I don't want to wear out one drive without a spare handy (which I have done).

Quote:

Also, you seem to have neglected a video card.

Not quite; I just haven't gotten around to mentioning it yet. I'm planning to get a motherboard with graphics built in, but with room to add a graphics card later if I wish. As a matter of fact, Rowen suggested one of the motherboards I was considering.

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

If he buys an ATX power supply of at least 400W, he'll be fine. As for voltages, those are universal.

Thanks, I've been meaning to ask about a power supply. The one I'm planning to get is either 500 or 600 watts.

[Lilith]

don't skimp on the power supply: if it fails it can take the rest of your computer with it. that doesn't mean you need an 1100-watt monstrosity but at least buy from a reputable manufacturer

[The Mystic]

I probably won't need the 1000-watt model, that seems way too big. That said, I think I'll go with 600 watts; as for the manufacturer, I was planning to go with either Cooler Master or Thermaltake.

[Rowen]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

I probably won't need the 1000-watt model, that seems way too big. That said, I think I'll go with 600 watts; as for the manufacturer, I was planning to go with either Cooler Master or Thermaltake.

Just make sure that it is 80 plus.

[A less presumptuous name.]

Originally Posted By: Niemand

(I really wish that Apple built in more than a factor of two of room for RAM upgrades in the their laptops. In both of the laptops I've owned I've gotten them with the minimum amount of RAM initially, then filled them up later with cheaper, third party RAM. Unfortunately, there's only room for one such step up, so now I'm stuck at 4 GB now until I get a completely new computer, which I'm not going to do for a couple more years at least.)

Try using my computer. Old PowerBook G4. Max of 2 GB RAM. I bought 1 GB so I could use leopard, and then one of the two RAM slots died, so my new max is 1 GB. /sadface.

[The Mystic]

*winces* That sucks. It also reminds me of the time I bought a 2GB memory card in order to upgrade my laptop's memory from 1 GB to what I hoped would be 2.5GB (I started out with two 512MB cards). To my surprise, the motherboard's maximum memory was 2GB, which I learned after the fact; and being on clearance, I couldn't take it back for two 1GB cards.

 

Anyway, I found a good deal on a tower ($30 after in-store markdown & manufacturer's rebate), and bought it. Here's a list of what I've got so far:

Click to reveal..

• Thermaltake V4 Black Edition mid-tower case
• Western Digital Caviar Blue 320GB (bought about a year ago, and used as an external drive via an enclosure)
• Dynex DX-WMSE optical wired mouse
• Inland Pro USB keyboard
• Inland 5.25" drive bay storage box

 

When I got home from the store, I looked over a copy of the ad I picked up when I was browsing the cases, and saw that some of the parts I was considering were on sale. Here's a list of what I plan to get:

Click to reveal..

• ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 AM3 AMD 880G SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD motherboard(the one Rowen suggested)
• AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition (again, the one Rowen suggested)
• Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 600W power supply
• Win7 Home Premium 64-bit OEM
• Samsung 22x DVD±RW Burner with Dual/Double Layer Support OEM
• Crucial 2GB DDR3-1333MHz (PC-10600) Memory Module (quantity: 2-4, depending on what's left of my budget)

[Rowen]

Do not forget to get some thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound and to get a CPU cooler that is not the heat sink that comes with your CPU. You want it to stay cool and that should be worth a few bucks to do it.

[Sudanna]

Also, don't do this:

 

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

Do not forget to get some thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound and to get a CPU cooler that is not the heat sink that comes with your CPU. You want it to stay cool and that should be worth a few bucks to do it.

Yeah, I've thought about CPU coolers, and have a few in mind; I plan to have this computer for several years at least, and I don't want anything to melt or burn out in the meantime.

There's also room in the tower I bought for a total of 4 fans: 2 intake, 2 exhaust, all of them 120mm. Yes, I plan to install 4 fans. One thing, though; I didn't see any fans specifically labeled as intake/exhaust. Do I just install the fan one way for air intake, and another for exhaust?

Originally Posted By: Lote Hin

Also, don't do this:

(picture)

Yikes.

Almost looks like someone used the CPU slot as a waffle iron. How in the world did that happen?

[Sudanna]

They slathered the paste on the bottom of the CPU and stuck it in the slot, rather than using the paste to attach the heat sink on top of the CPU.

[The Mystic]

Still, that's gross. I may be a novice at computer building, but even I know not to smear goop all over the place like that. With that much crud all over the CPU slot, my guess is that the motherboard is toast, unless you want to really, really, really want to spend time cleaning it.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

There's also room in the tower I bought for a total of 4 fans: 2 intake, 2 exhaust, all of them 120mm. Yes, I plan to install 4 fans. One thing, though; I didn't see any fans specifically labeled as intake/exhaust. Do I just install the fan one way for air intake, and another for exhaust?

Yes

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Niemand

Originally Posted By: Rowen

Newegg AMD Vision Modern WarFare2 T-shirt Size Large

Clearly the most vital component.

Actually, I already have a similar (and, in my humble opinion, better) version of that component. It has a picture of a flathead (slotted) screwdriver and the words "I void warranties" printed on it. I plan to wear it when I go get the remaining parts to make my computer.

Originally Posted By: Tyranicus

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Do I just install the fan one way for air intake, and another for exhaust?

Yes

Good; that saves some confusion.

[Earth]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

Do not forget to get some thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound and to get a CPU cooler that is not the heat sink that comes with your CPU. You want it to stay cool and that should be worth a few bucks to do it.

today's cooler's might have that pasted on cooler's bottom.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: Rowen

Do not forget to get some thermal paste like Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound and to get a CPU cooler that is not the heat sink that comes with your CPU. You want it to stay cool and that should be worth a few bucks to do it.

Honestly, stock heatsinks aren't all that bad. I've got a 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo under the stock Intel heatsink. It's been running very coolly and stably overclocked to 2.8GHz for 2.5 years now.

[Rowen]

I just don't trust the stock coolers that come in the box with the CPU. I got a cheap CPU cooler like this one here. It keeps my CPU at 29 C at idle and I've yet to break 50 C under a stress test.

 

After owning a MBP and feeling how hot it gets and smelling it burn up at times (I've burnt up 3 logic boards by now) I am just super paranoid about heat issues in computers. Maybe the stock cooler will be fine. But I would look at buying some Silver 5. The type of compound grease does make a big difference in heat transfer from the CPU to the cooler.

[Earth]

I have C2Quad 2.833GHz with Intel's fan (size is around 2 fists) and so far (8ish months) no heat problems (I have antec's case and its 120mm fan is set on high so that helps too).

[The Mystic]

In the meantime, I went out yesterday and got all the components I wanted/needed, plus a little extra (I guess we all took for granted that I'd need a surge protector ). In fact, I'm posting here from the resulting computer.

 

Here's what I got:

Click to reveal..

• Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
• Acer 19" widescreen monitor
• Asus M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 motherboard
• AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 4-core processor
• Thermaltake TR2 600W power supply
• Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus CPU cooler
• LG Super Multi Blue Internal BD-ROM/DVD rewriter
• LG GH22NS50 22X Internal SATA Super Multi DVD Drive OEM
• Crucial 4GB DDR3-1066 (PC3-8500) Memory Kit (Two 2GB Memory Modules) (they were out of DDR3-1333 memory; I can always upgrade later if I want to)
• 4 Cooler Master 120mm R4 Series Rifle Bearing Fans (I'm returning 2 of them; they won't fit in with everything else)
• Inland SurgeGuard 3600 8 Outlet surge protector

After some confusion and a slight migraine, just about everything's up and running smoothly. Thanks to all for the advice, the computer worked on the first try!

[Rowen]

Looks nice. What number is the CPU? Also, what video card did you get?

[The Mystic]

This is the CPU I bought.

 

As for the graphics card, I'm just using the on-board graphics that came with the motherboard. If I want to add a graphics card, I have plenty of slots available.

[Andraste]

Get a graphics card. You'll be happier in the long run.

[The Mystic]

Maybe later. I don't run anything that's really demanding from a graphics standpoint. If I were planning to play something along the lines of Halo or WoW, then I'd have one already. Probably the most graphics-intense games I play are Jeff's; and with the exception of a little lag in G5 and A6 when playing in Vista, I've never had any problems (I haven't tried any games in Win7 yet).

[Earth]

Doubt you'd notice difference between 1066MHz and 1333MHz memories unless you'd run programs which hog memory alot.

[The Mystic]

Probably not, but I can always upgrade should the need arise; also, the motherboard has a 16GB (4GB x 4) capacity. Just out of curiosity, is it possible to have 1066 and 1333 memory installed at the same time?

 

So far, the only real resource hogs on my new system are the antivirus programs.

[Tyranicus]

Originally Posted By: The Mystic

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to have 1066 and 1333 memory installed at the same time?

Yes, but it will all run at 1066 MHz.

[Earth]

Does your motherboard support 8GB memory at full speed? Some motherboards (cheap) tend to lower speed if has all slots filled.

[The Mystic]

My guess is that it does, but you tell me; I'm totally new to the world of DIY computers. The motherboard specs can be found here if you need more info. All I know is that my computer recognizes all the memory I installed (total 4GB), and that the motherboard can hold up to 16GB.

[Earth]

not on your case. its only at cheap boards that only 2 memory slots have full speed available and if all 4 slots are in use then memories speeds are dropped.

[The Mystic]

That's good to know. Just how cheap of a motherboard are you talking?

[Earth]

couple ten bucks. not sure if it is still actual thing but few years ago only 2 slots had full speed and rest had lower speed or some other restriction.

[Rowen]

Today the last part for the computer I built for my wife showed up. Its been a month in the making and several problems with power issues but I now have it running stable. Following is the build.

 

Click to reveal..

Cooler Master 370 Elite Case

MSI NF750-G55 MB

AMD Phenom II x2 555

EVGA GeForce 250

Corsair 650W PSU

WD Blue 320 GB HD

LG DVD+RW

Cooler Master Hyper TX3 CPU Cooler

Cooler Master 120mm Case Fans x4

Arctic Silver 5

Corsair 2 x 2GB 1600 DDR3

Windows 7 Home 64 bit

EnGenius wireless adapter

Logitech G510 Keyboard

Logitech MX 518 Mouse

HP 2310m LCD Moniter

 

Not everything was bought from Newegg as they do not always have the best prices. Over all its a nice computer that gets the job done. It is also nice to watch movies on too. Way bigger then the 15inch display of my MBP.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

couple ten bucks. not sure if it is still actual thing but few years ago only 2 slots had full speed and rest had lower speed or some other restriction.

$10? The only place I've seen motherboards anywhere near that price was at a trade show, and they were about $50 on up. I may be cheap, but I know to stay away from the low end of the price range; performance, reliability, and especially the dealer's reputation tend to get rather dubious the farther you go down in price.

[Earth]

not 10 bucks, 40-60 bucks. my current mobo cost around 150 bucks. saw on somr review that some mobos had odd restrictions.

[The Mystic]

Still, it's good advice, and helpful to know that to look for when building a computer. And like we both said in so many words, the cheaper the component, the more you need to have your eyes open.

 

By the way, my motherboard cost $130 before the bundle savings on the board/processor combo.