A6 - Which were the meanest monsters for you?

[Tcheedchee]

Hi,

 

this is no question. Just like to chat a bit.

I'm kind of curious to find out how much different strategies affect gameplay.

For instance, I seem to be having a lot of trouble with the aranea queen in the arachnid ruins northwest of spire. I've won the onyx sceptre from the demon in Fort Avernum, who was really tough to get by, and I also won the fight against the drakes in the underground tunnels below the occupied country, but the aranea queen still kills me.

I also have an idea why (can't do anything about it yet.)

Click to reveal..

It seems, that my shaman has to gain more magical efficiency to improve his mind shield, as well as his control foe ability.

My party consists of a sword-fighter, who does the "tank"-stuff, a pole-fighter slith who knows how to handle missiles (and tools) and does the support, an archer-shaman nephil, who does all the priest spells, and a classical mage. The shaman does most of the healing, but can get support from the mage concerning the healing, when mind-spells are needed. When my party needs area spells they both have spells to use, so they take turns to find out, what works best.

 

So whom did you find hard to get by?

[Lilith]

Magical Efficiency doesn't make spells more effective: it just makes them cost fewer spell points. Honestly, for the Aranea Queen fight you're probably better off just attacking with magic and having your fighters use bows or something so that they don't get charmed. That way, instead of using Ward of Thoughts you can use Ward of Elements to make her fire attack less deadly.

 

By the way, the Aranea Queen specifically was made easier in the latest version of A6 because so many people complained about that one fight, so make sure you're using the latest version.

[Randomizer]

Two of the Aranea Queen's supporters are constructs that can't be controlled by control foe so you can only use it against the other spider supporters.

 

As for Thuryl's (Lilith's) advice, range attacks are always a good idea against area effect attacks. Send in summoned creatures to keep monsters away while you retreat out of range.

 

This was always a nasty fight and takes me a few tries just because I spend so much time healing. So an invulnerable potion doesn't hurt.

 

Meanest monster for me is a slith horde protector because it has massive health and does lots of damage in melee. They aren't hard to kill, but the fights take lots of time and I burn through potions with healing and replacing spell energy.

[Tcheedchee]

Originally Posted By: Lilith

Magical Efficiency doesn't make spells more effective: […] you can use Ward of Elements to make her fire attack less deadly.

By the way, the Aranea Queen specifically was made easier in the latest version of A6 […] so make sure you're using the latest version.

Yeah, last time I levelled up I had a look at magical efficiency again and found, that I mistook it for spellcraft.
So I'll try Ward of Elements. Looks good. Inspite of the name I had a fuzzy understanding of that ward yet.
And thanks for the hint with the update.

[Fael]

For me the hardest fight on my first game was the Lich's sentinels (although having the proper strategy explained to me by other posters made that much easier the second time 'round). After that, the Slith Trainer, and the Slith General outside of Formello. Just down a notch in difficulty from them I'd put the Aranea Queen.

 

The trick with the Aranea Queen is that, through careful maneuvering, it should be possible to lure the Death Widows and the Sentinels out one or two at a time and kill them all before going in and fighting the Queen. She's a lot easier to deal with on her own.

[Student of Trinity]

I was able to spam her with a torment singleton by first eliminating all her goons, then making it down to the nearest room with a door while she was in arrow range, in line of sight from just outside the door, but too far away to stop me from closing the door. That room also has a cupboard in it. With Adrenaline Rush I could open the door and step out, fire a shot or two, step back in by clicking on the cupboard, then close the door.

 

Foolish Aranea queen, your spidery sorcery is no match for my mastery of the mighty art that can open a Portal through the very doorway itself! That, and my ability to shake myself out of my battle-crazed paralysis after attacking by saying, Whoa! Could be something in that cabinet! time after time after time.

[Tcheedchee]

Originally Posted By: Fael

[…] The trick with the Aranea Queen is that, through careful maneuvering, it should be possible to lure the Death Widows and the Sentinels out one or two at a time and kill them all before going in and fighting the Queen. She's a lot easier to deal with on her own.

I killed all her followers long ago already. Took them all out one by one, you might say. That's what puzzles me a bit. With a lot of the other tough foes that worked quite well.
But I didn't fight the Aranea Queen in the A6 1.01 yet, so lets see.
The other "problem" is, that my shaman still has to gain one priest skill to be able to cast the Ward of Elements.
As soon as I've gained enough XP for that I'll return for the aranea queen.

I haven't passed any of the mean monsters you or Randomizer mentioned yet (naturally), but I think it won't take me long to get to know the Slith Trainer and the Slith General as I'm close to Formello now. I've combed through all the breeding tunnels…
I suppose the Horde Protectors can't be too far either. The Slith Trainers I met up to now (even though some of them had their own names) were rather "nice" fights.

By the way, talking of the breeding tunnels…
There is one "hidden" switch in the gazers' "den", that's quite strange. There are a lot of rocks, so you can't reach it, but I didn't find any other switches to pass though to it either. Not even with the u-key.
Another one is in the breeding tunnels as well, a little up and northwest of the gazers, where I got the message, that my party couldn't figure out how to make it work. Does that mean they lack arcane lore, or nature lore?

Then what about the comparative quality of weapons?
I found this marvellous heartstriker bow, and as remarked somewhere in the forums it really does a lot of damage despite the fact, that it shows lesser damage levels in its description than the blessed longbow for instance. In the same thread, I read, that halberds are generally better than spears. Does that also apply to the Slith Warspear, too?
My Pole-Slith has a Steel Halberd 11-44 and a Slith Warspear 14-56, but I find it hard to make out the difference. Does the Halberd have higher dice, like 1-4 instead of 1-3 or whatever? Then the Steel Halbert could cause 156 as highest hitpoints, whereas the Warspear could cause 112 or 168 depending on if it has 1-2 or 1-3. Is that thought correct? What about the +5 hitpoints on the Warspear. Would they make the difference? Are they added before or after rolling the dice?
I didn't figure out yet, if there is also some comprehensive capacity-list of items…

Originally Posted By: Student of Trinity

[…]too far away to stop me from closing the door. That room also has a cupboard in it. With Adrenaline Rush I could open the door and step out, fire a shot or two, step back in by clicking on the cupboard, then close the door.

Wow! You can do that? Seems like I'm lacking your enthusiasm. I tried closing the door quite a few times, but it seems I don't get the right distance. The other stuff with rushing out, firing and retreating sounds pretty sophisticated to me too. I'm impressed. No joking!

Well, after all it seems like I'm not doing too badly. Adrenalin Rush hasn't been in my range of battle disciplines for too long yet, and I still have to gain the Ward of Elements. Together with sophisticated warfighting like doorclosing and cupboard-rushing as well as with a bit of sober missle throwing I'll be mopping the floor with the aranea queen next time round.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

By the way, talking of the breeding tunnels…
There is one "hidden" switch in the gazers' "den", that's quite strange. There are a lot of rocks, so you can't reach it, but I didn't find any other switches to pass though to it either. Not even with the u-key.

This switch is here to mock you. There's no known way to reach it.

Quote:

Another one is in the breeding tunnels as well, a little up and northwest of the gazers, where I got the message, that my party couldn't figure out how to make it work. Does that mean they lack arcane lore, or nature lore?

Tool use, actually.

Quote:

Then what about the comparative quality of weapons?
I found this marvellous heartstriker bow, and as remarked somewhere in the forums it really does a lot of damage despite the fact, that it shows lesser damage levels in its description than the blessed longbow for instance. In the same thread, I read, that halberds are generally better than spears. Does that also apply to the Slith Warspear, too?

My Pole-Slith has a Steel Halberd 11-44 and a Slith Warspear 14-56, but I find it hard to make out the difference. Does the Halberd have higher dice, like 1-4 instead of 1-3 or whatever?

To work out what dice a weapon uses, divide its maximum damage by its minimum damage. For example, for the Steel Halberd, 44 divided by 11 is 4, so every point of Strength or Pole Weapons does an extra 1-4 damage (well, not quite, but close enough). For the Slith Warspear, 56 divided by 14 is also 4, so it has the same size dice as the Steel Halberd, although the higher base damage means it will always do 3-12 more damage.

The Heartstriker is the only bow with a die size of 4, which is what makes it powerful: its damage increases faster with bow skills than any other bow. It's still not that great, though.

Quote:

What about the +5 hitpoints on the Warspear. Would they make the difference? Are they added before or after rolling the dice?

"+5% chance to hit" is just that, an increase in your chance to hit. It doesn't increase the damage you do. You shouldn't be missing in the first place, so it's irrelevant most of the time.

[Tcheedchee]

Oh, I see.

Thanks again.

(Well maybe it's the sound the heartstriker-bow makes. It's quite impressing at first… At the moment it does about 6 points more damage per hit.)

 

Oh, and I found the comparative list for weapons now…

[Fael]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

I haven't passed any of the mean monsters you or Randomizer mentioned yet (naturally), but I think it won't take me long to get to know the Slith Trainer and the Slith General as I'm close to Formello now. I've combed through all the breeding tunnels…
I suppose the Horde Protectors can't be too far either. The Slith Trainers I met up to now (even though some of them had their own names) were rather "nice" fights.

The two I'm talking about have their own names, as well. I just don't remember them...

[Tcheedchee]

Yeah, there are a lot of names to be remembered.

 

Concerning your lich. I've only found one yet. Below Fort Dranlon. It's the one, where you need the complicated strategy concerning the crystals, and do the tricks with running to the right side over the narrow bridge at the right time. After it had killed me in an instance, I have avoided it so far. It was too overwhelming.

I'll try it after winning over the aranea queen, which should be possible soon.

[Fael]

That's the Lich I was talking about. There's a whole other thread somewhere on strategy for that battle. Anyway, when you get done with him, there are a bunch of sentinels guarding his treasure. I found them MUCH harder than the Lich himself (partly because I figured out the strategy for the Lich on the second try, but I didn't figure out the strategy for the sentinels until someone explained it to me in words of one syllable... which was after I'd already finished the fight the hard way).

[Tcheedchee]

Thanks for the warning. I'm really not looking forward to that fight. Seems so complicated to do all the running an counting.

Weeell, I'll see.

[Tcheedchee]

Now I did the Aranea Queen quest, and darn! I have waited for too long. It was so easy now, that I could even do a sloppy fight. I didn't need any kinky door&cupboard-fighting, nor did I need the Ward of Elements.

 

So I thought that's the right time for a fight with the lich, but I can't remember the way to it anymore. I looked in the tunnels near Fort Dranlon, but no luck…

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

So I thought that's the right time for a fight with the lich, but I can't remember the way to it anymore. I looked in the tunnels near Fort Dranlon, but no luck…

You need to enter the undead fort to the northeast and go downstairs.

[Fael]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

Thanks for the warning. I'm really not looking forward to that fight. Seems so complicated to do all the running an counting.

I skipped the whole running and counting part. Just concentrated on doing lots of damage very fast to end things before I had to worry about the south crystal. That works okay on Normal, but probably not on Hard or Torment, though.

[Lightning Spammer]

So far I'd say the Lich + Sentinals has been nuts. I just got done with that... took me a few times to figure out how to beat the sentinals. Talk about strategic party placement making a world of difference (aka, a fight going from impossible to winnable, with patience and enough hoarded items).

 

The aranea queen was somewhat problematic as well the first couple tries, but then I managed to pull only a few of the baddies in that area at once and buffer with some summons.

 

This is, definitely, the hardest Avernum on normal I've encountered. I usually cheat a little bit anyway, but on this one, even with adding a few extra skill levels here and there, many areas have kicked my party's sorry rear ends. >.<

[Tcheedchee]

Thanks, Lilith, for pointing me the way to the lich.

I had almost forgotten about that area. I had liked that part very much too, when I passed it. It wasn't too tough, but it needed an idea at how to proceed best.

 

 

Originally Posted By: Fael

The two I'm talking about have their own names, as well. I just don't remember them...

Hi Fael,

I think I found the Slith trainer you mentioned – Yassho of the spear.

He waits in an arena southeast of Formello, close to the slavers. He took my whole party down with two breathtaking strokes of his spear. It was quite a laugh. Same thing second time around…

For the other baddy there you don't happen to mean High Mage Dassra and his servitor orbs? He also defends his life with much aplomb.

 

 

Originally Posted By: Lightning spammer

This is, definitely, the hardest Avernum on normal I've encountered. I usually cheat a little bit anyway, but on this one, even with adding a few extra skill levels here and there, many areas have kicked my party's sorry rear ends. >.<

Funny you should say that. I had serious trouble in A5, where I had to switch to easy to get through. I think I've played a far greater piece of A6 by now and can still play on normal. There are some extremely tough fights, but for me the alleviation in difficulty lies in the possibility to go to more different places, where one can gain the experience needed to survive the tougher fights.

Granted, A5 was my first Avernum and I certainly didn't play it well, but it was much more draconic concerning the order in which one had to complete the quests and therefore pass certain areas and fights.

[Fael]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

I think I found the Slith trainer you mentioned – Yassho of the spear. He waits in an arena southeast of Formello, close to the slavers. He took my whole party down with two breathtaking strokes of his spear. It was quite a laugh. Same thing second time around…
For the other baddy there you don't happen to mean High Mage Dassra and his servitor orbs? He also defends his life with much aplomb.

Yup, Yassho of the Spear sounds like who I'm talking about. That pretty much describes what he did to me. I did kill him eventually, but I think it was the second-to-last fight I did before going ahead with the final battle.

High Mage Dassra isn't who I meant for the other one, though. I just realized that I could look up the name on Synergizer's list (duh!) -- General Tregart. He was the last fight I did before the final battle.

For general difficulty, I agree with Tcheedchee -- I found A5 much, much harder than A6.

[Lightning Spammer]

Originally Posted By: Tcheedchee

Funny you should say that. I had serious trouble in A5, where I had to switch to easy to get through. I think I've played a far greater piece of A6 by now and can still play on normal. There are some extremely tough fights, but for me the alleviation in difficulty lies in the possibility to go to more different places, where one can gain the experience needed to survive the tougher fights

This is true. Less linearity in A6 would make it easier on a second play through once you know where you should and shouldn't go at certain levels. I still remember my brazen moment of thinking I could take the ancient worm when I was in the teens. I thought I was doing really great... then it got angry and wiped out my entire party with 130+ poison damage. >.<

EDIT: It's also been a while since I've played A5, so maybe I'm just forgetting some of the hard parts of that game. =)

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Lightning Spammer

EDIT: It's also been a while since I've played A5, so maybe I'm just forgetting some of the hard parts of that game. =)

A5 Fang Clan Testing Area the first time you can do it, most of Lark's quests the first time you get to them especially Moref the Shade, Melanchion's Keep, the Haakai in Melanchion's Realm, ...

[Fael]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Originally Posted By: Lightning Spammer

EDIT: It's also been a while since I've played A5, so maybe I'm just forgetting some of the hard parts of that game. =)

A5 Fang Clan Testing Area the first time you can do it, most of Lark's quests the first time you get to them especially Moref the Shade, Melanchion's Keep, the Haakai in Melanchion's Realm, ...

Slith Horror!

Actually, the difference was that in A5, every fight was hard. In A5, you're wandering down a road and see a couple slimes in the distance, you'd better at haste, bless, and shield or you're dead. In A6, you can actually handle the trivial encounters without extensive preparation.

[Demseinwetter]

Hardest Quest -the one I could never get myself to complete- for me was, though not the toughest, was driving off Roark, the text that popped up just made it impossible to finish it, him leaving with tears in his eyes, my party taking his dreams away from him and all for the glory of Bargha. I've done it a couple of times and always reloaded, because although my PCs steal and do lots of other horrible stuff, that was just too much.

[Lilith]

the reward is really good though, especially if you make him give you his sword

[jlsgaladriel]

Quote:

Hardest Quest -the one I could never get myself to complete- for me was, though not the toughest, was driving off Roark, the text that popped up just made it impossible to finish it

I haven't done this either, because Roark epitomizes the spirit of the Abyss!

But now I've made up an all-slith party -- well, three sliths and one nephil wannabe -- who're going to favour All That's Reptile in the end. Down with the human infiltrators!

The question, of course, is it better for reptilian life if I take out *three* parties for Melanchion, leaving only the Horde? Or is it better for the Horde if I only take out two?

[Tcheedchee]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

I haven't done this either, because Roark epitomizes the spirit of the Abyss!

Yeah! Absolutely!

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

The question, of course, is it better for reptilian life if I take out *three* parties for Melanchion, leaving only the Horde? Or is it better for the Horde if I only take out two?

Click to reveal..

It seems that Melanchion takes over Avernum if you defeat more than two of his enemies, so don't do that unless you plan to kill Melanchion as well.

If you are going to kill Melanchion, the best time to do it is when he meets you to help assault the Scourge. You can betray him at that point and attack him without any of his usual allies being present.

[jlsgaladriel]

Back on the meanest monster track -- I'm playing through for the second time, and glancing at my (printed out) map, I discover one spot I'd marked omgwt*bbq, where * may be replaced with whatever word you choose to express extreme unhappiness.

 

It's the Tunnel Horror just west of Komlos' smithy.

 

At the right level, it's not that awful, but when one first encounters it: pwnage.

[Kreador]

Originally Posted By: jlsgaladriel

Back on the meanest monster track -- I'm playing through for the second time, and glancing at my (printed out) map, I discover one spot I'd marked omgwt*bbq, where * may be replaced with whatever word you choose to express extreme unhappiness.

It's the Tunnel Horror just west of Komlos' smithy.

At the right level, it's not that awful, but when one first encounters it: pwnage.

Ah, yes, I remember my joy this last time through (wherein I employed a LOT of the skribbane exploit) at finally going back down there and slaughtering that thing and all its spawn. Previously, I'd always just enter combat mode from a distance and send in my sacrificial tank to get credit for finding the lair for that quest.

[echoes]

It was really cool to go back and waste that thing after having been so scared of it the first time around!

[Randomizer]

The first time I went in there and killed it on normal difficulty before finding out there was even a quest to find the lair let alone kill it.

[Tcheedchee]

Poor thing.

It sure is scary, but it's just a scar-ridden, old monster that whatchamacallit - ah! the Tower Colony didn't take care of very well…

 

There are just some monsters I can't imagine to kill…

Maybe I should feed it some Skribbane. Maybe the scars wouldn't hurt it so much then.