I'm doing it.

[Dantius]

I have recently been contemplating running a Torment Singleton. I've been preparing for it by recently running a Normal singleton, and sort of figuring out the ropes. I've decided that said singleton will be a mage-priest, with a little bit of bows, plus high TU and NL, for the doors, traps, and caches everywhere. I have noted that there are some definite pluses to running a singleton, namely that you can hoard potions, cherrypick the best stat-boosting items, and get all the free skill points form the Wisdom items. Plus, not having to equip 4 people means that you can sell much more loot, getting more money faster. Anyways, here are my starting stats:

 

STR:3- I'll add to this a bit later on, when I get nicer armor.

DEX:2- I'll only start investing in Bows/dex when I hit the Azure Gallery

INT:3- You get a much better return out of investing in priest/mage spells early on for the energy.

END:3- I find this necessary for a singleton. I should be at about 6 by Drake Pillars, and about 12 by the endgame.

 

ALL COMBAT:0- Like I said, I'm saving bows for the Azure Gallery.

 

MS:4- Will increase slowly as I get access to better spells, not crucial now, but I should be at about 10ish when I reach Solberg.

PS:4- See above

AL:1- Not so critical early on, I'll toss some points into it later.

SC:2- The cheap way to get free energy. Points will be dumped, eventually.

 

TU:4- Getting this to 20 is no longer feasible with a singleton. I should be hitting mid-teen's, with items. I miss all the infiltrator items from Geneforge with the +7 mech boost.

NL:4- Shoot for 10. Not really a waste of skill points, since all those herbs make a lot of knowledge items in Muck.

FA:3- Going for 5. The easy way to heal yourself and restore energy. Last runthrough I didn't find out that all that meat I lugged around would give me free health and energy until I was in the Dark River.

 

I'm somewhat torn on traits. Natural Mage is a must, but should I also spring for Pure Spirit, or Divinely Touched? Comments appreciated.

 

Items: I'll just pick the best one. the Mage robe in the Golem Workshop will be used until I get the Runed Plate, which is fantastic for a mage singleton, great armor, no encumbrance, and a nice Magery boost. Last singleton runthrough I had, among other things:

Runed Helm

Runed Plate

Crystalline Aegis

Silk Cord

Gazerskin Sandals

Talisman of Might

Putrefied Gauntlets

 

I am torn on whether I should cheat to get the Nephil items, allow another sacrificial character in, script to get them, or just play without them.

 

Anyways, I just wanted to get any last advice before I start. Thanks!

[Men are from Slars]

Natural Mage isn't actually a must, although it isn't a bad choice. I would recommend either DT/EW or DT/NM, though you could also try NM/PS purely for the Magical Efficiency. Personally, I think giving up the damage AND defensive bonuses from DT is foolish. EW gives you Blademaster (for fatigue reduction) and Parry and it also increases carrying capacity. NM of course gives you the Mage Spells bonus and gives you a little more flexibility with armor. Both are usable, neither is necessary.

[Randomizer]

I went with DT/EW on both my torment singleton playthroughs. There is enough decent armor early in the game that you can get by without NM for counteracting the bulky armor penalty. But Blademaster for fatigue reduction is a must since you want to be able to use battle disciplines especially battle frenzy so you can have extra action points against AP drainers and the extra attacks. DT just gives so many bonuses that you pretty much want it. NM/PS probably would work for getting spell levels cheaper and using the skill points for strength and getting parry.

 

NL has to be 5 when you get to Tranquility to sway the unstable golems against the Prime Golem. You might be able to get through the fight just using summoned creations, but why make it harder on yourself.

 

Combat skills help with the unstable mass and later the doomguards. But hasting yourself and using daze will usually prevent the unstable mass from splitting. Just remember to use multiple buffs going into major fights so you don't have to rebuff. There are a few places where Adrenaline Rush will help you move to a position where you won't get swarmed to death.

 

You can get by with Endurance 8 by the Azure Gallery. Eventually you reach the point with the best armor that the regeneration of Divine Restoration will heal most damage and you will only have to heal once every 4 rounds in major fights.

 

Always take advantage of terrain to avoid getting swarmed. Doorways and narrow places are your friend. Summoned creations are also really helpful to soak up damage and mental attacks against certain boss monsters. Control Foe is another really helpful spell when dealing with something that loves to summon friends.

[Dantius]

I'm using natural Mage, since I thought that you couldn't cast mage spells while wearing armor otherwise, and since a singleton would be attacked in melee combat, the armor is pretty much necessary. But what is the actual difference between DT and PS? Is it just the damage bonus?. I won't be using swords or polearms, so I don't think EW is necessary, and I could always drop a point or so into STR if encumbrance is a problem.

[Randomizer]

DT gives extra armor, blademaster, and sharpshooter, and magery to increase spell damage.

[Dantius]

Hmm. Now, for some crazy reason, I'm actually considering dropping DT in exchange for Nimble Fingers. Not only would I lose less levels, but I would also save skill points that I could put into Magery manually, and also permit me to legitimately use First Aid as my primary means of healing. This merits experimentation.

[Men are from Slars]

DT gives you +1 for every 4 experience levels (quite a few, as a singleton) to Blademaster, Magery, and Sharpshooter (and an additional +1 at level 1). It also gives you a flat 20% bonus to armor, which given the resist system, means you take 20% less damage from all physical attacks. The difference between unencumbering armor and encumbering armor is not really that significant for the most part, given the multiplicative armor system.

 

You will get a higher bonus from DT Magery than from PS Priest Spells by level 12 or so, so PS is really only useful if you have some odd skill point plan, or really want the Magical Efficiency.

[Men are from Slars]

GAH, no!! Nimble Fingers is worthless, the bonus is tiny, and First Aid has been HUGELY nerfed -- it has a cap on its healing now (both SP and HP) which is fairly low.

 

If you are seriously considering such a switch, you might want to take some more time to review game mechanics before beginning such a serious challenge -- you are going to want to understand them better than that!

[Dantius]

No, it was just a moment's weakness. I thought DT provided a flat bonus, instead of incrementing with levels. I've never played with Nimble Fingers as a trait, so I had no idea what it did. Nevermind. So, DT and NM it is. What about the skill point spread? I thought it was fairly balanced, but I've been wrong before (obviously).

[Lilith]

I can tell you right now that if you're waiting for the trainer in Tranquility to train up weapon skills (which is probably a good idea if you can do it), Lysstak the Beast is going to be your biggest roadblock along the way. Do you have a strategy in mind for beating him with a singleton and no battle disciplines?

[Dantius]

Invulnerability potions, and lots of them.

[Men are from Slars]

Playing as a Nephil or Slith, you should have picked up at least the first battle discipline and maybe more by then. Unless I'm drastically misremembering the requirements.

[Jerakeen]

Originally Posted By: You mean gods

Playing as a Nephil or Slith, you should have picked up at least the first battle discipline and maybe more by then. Unless I'm drastically misremembering the requirements.

No, you're right. It's fresh in my mind because I just did it. My nephil hit level 24 and unlocked "well-aimed blow" just before the end of the chapter.

[Erebus the Black]

instead of lystak you can always remove the guards in exodus, turn the wheel(if you have enough strength) and run to solberg for the bracelet and from there fence your way into anama lands if you don't have enough Nature (I believe this is a lot harder than fighting the exodus guards but you can be the judge).

The only mandatory quest is mayor salony's quest all others purely depend on your skill,fun and patience.

The nephil ceremony items are not as much scripting as they are removing a script which is there to remove them. Just look for files with fang in their name and a "take_all(X)" method in them (X is number of item).

[Lilith]

Cheating to get items you're not supposed to have seems outside the spirit of a self-imposed challenge, honestly.

[Dantius]

Re avatar: Lystak is going to be a major pain. He is not going to make the game unwinnable by any means short of scripting. I am looking for a challenge, remember? It would be like trying to run a nocanister nocreations nomagic Shaper in an Geneforge game, and then saying "Here, if you edit in this SDF, you can have ten Eyebeasts that follow you around, attacking anything that moves!" It sort of defeats the purpose.

 

Re Thuryl: It's just that the ability to never invest in Strength ever is so incredibly useful that it will make the game much more difficult with out it. Since I am already making the game as difficult as possible only by editing factors that come up on the Character Creation screen, I see no reason why I should limit my choices inside the game as well.

[Randomizer]

Lystakk isn't that bad on torment if you remember just before that battle to go back and recruit the soldier and the rat for extra bodies. Summon two friends and then pick your terrain.

 

My two choices are stay in the corner where only two can attack you because of the body or come through the magical barrier and use the doorway so only one can attack you.

[Erebus the Black]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

Re avatar: Lystak is going to be a major pain. He is not going to make the game unwinnable by any means short of scripting. I am looking for a challenge, remember? It would be like trying to run a nocanister nocreations nomagic Shaper in an Geneforge game, and then saying "Here, if you edit in this SDF, you can have ten Eyebeasts that follow you around, attacking anything that moves!" It sort of defeats the purpose.

What????
I never said a thing about scripting lystak, all I said was that you can kill the guards in exodus and enter tranquility without defeating lystak first, that's what an anti avernite would do, in return you anger an entire town and if you are not careful you need to destroy golems (which if I remember right from somewhere in the forum, destroying more than 15 angers the tower as well) so it seems like a fair trade-off.

Quote:

if you remember just before that battle to go back and recruit the soldier and the rat for extra bodies.

with low NL you probly can't get the rat

p.s.
never played GF so I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: avatar42

What????

You mentioned scripting in regards to the nephilim artifacts. That's what Dantius and Thuryl are talking about.

Dikiyoba.

[Zummi]

Is a mage/priest even viable to endgame A5?

[Alorael at Large]

Probably. The spells are helpful, and the purpose of fighters in A5 is more to be tanks than to be damage-dealers. As long as you can come up with enough armor and health and as long as you don't run out of energy potions I don't see why a caster solo wouldn't work.

 

—Alorael, who also isn't at all experienced with casters.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: meAzuma

Is a mage/priest even viable to endgame A5?

It's easier to do damage by spells than using a weapon. The only encounters where a weapon is needed are doomguards and unstable masses in the endgame. By this point training and item bonuses will do just fine.

[Marak]

I agree. With the exception of a few specific monster types that have 99.9999% resistance to all forms of magic (Doomguards, Unstable Masses, the Altered Giant in Melanchion's Keep), having both Mage and Priest spells will allow you to attack a foe's least-resistant Element, no matter what it is, as you've got Fire, Ice, Acid, and Disruption damage all covered.

 

Plus, as was said, spells completely trump melee in terms of pure damage in about 95% of all the fights in the game - especially when it comes to blasting down groups of foes, which is something you just cannot do with a melee character, even one with a Polearm and Battle Disciplines and Haste and Elite Warrior.

 

Most of my Parties have a Mage/Priest in them and while I haven't ever tried either Singleton or Torment, they're enough of a powerhouse on Hard or Normal that I imagine they have to be pretty scary when you give them all the best equipment and all the Wisdom Crystals/Knowledge Brews in the game and the extra levels you get by flying solo.

[The Mystic]

Originally Posted By: meAzuma

Is a mage/priest even viable to endgame A5?

From what I've seen, the mage/priest combo is totally viable through the endgame for all games in the series.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

It's easier to do damage by spells than using a weapon.

Agreed; to summarize what Marak said above, someone who can cast both mage and priest spells can tear through anything. Add some good (and preferably non-encumbering) armor, and you have a nearly unstoppable tank.

[Erebus the Black]

So I guess my mage/priest did less damage than my fighter end game because I mistakenly spent 10 levels worth of points on tool use on my first run (trying to correct the opposite mistake I did on my first run on A4).

[Dantius]

Alright. I've finished off Dorkias in my Normal singleton, so I'm ready to launch. Only one question remains- my sprite. Obviously I'm going to pick the Shaper one, but should my robe be dark blue, dark red, or dark green? This is the most important decision to be made in my playthrough, since I'll be stuck with it, so the answer better be good.

[Sleeping Dragon]

A difficult decision indeed! Judging from your avatar, I think you would be the most happy with dark blue. But, you might try dark red if you're in the mood for a change.

[Dantius]

Dark red it is. Here we go; I'll post again when I finish up Under Blackcrag Fortress.

[Dantius]

Right- first impressions:

 

I started out with stats as detailed above, and boldly entered Avernum. I looted the portal chamber and the supply room, equipped some low-quality equipment, and headed south. I was shocked when that traitor Newsom betrayed me! How dare he! Anyways, some Bolts of Flame and one Repel Spirit foiled his assassination attempt. I headed east. I took out all but one undead, but I ran out of energy, and, with too weak of a physical attack, invariably fell. Abuse of save/reload did not remedy this; I simply did not have enough energy. On the fourth try, I ran past and grabbed the Energy potion on the workbench. Worked like a charm, and he was blasted into oblivion. I headed through the tunnel to the zombie, which a Repel Spirit took care of. Heading into the gallery with the Stone Servants, I grabbed my prise- the second of two Energy potions downstairs, and a couple Healing potions. I killed the zombies and the worms in quick succession. I quaffed my last energy potion, and went to face Newsom. You can hit him with a Spray Acid before engaging in conversation, which is helpful for getting in an extra attack, always good. His summoned zombies were a problem, I had to use Haste to be able to kill them fast enough to not get ripped to shreds. Newsom, being constantly softened up by the Spray Acid I cast earlier, was still difficult. I ran out of energy when he still had a decent amount of health left. Whoops, mistake. I equipped my trusty rusty Shortsword, and we dueled it out until he fell, which was awhile, as we both had about a 50% hit chance. I had blown my last Healing potion, and was down to 7 HP when he fell. I attribute this to luck. I leveled twice, once just before and once just after beating Newsom. Points went into SC for energy and End for health. I dropped my spare point into AL, just for the hell of it.

 

So, my feelings about this: Okay. The first level is the only point in the game where your resources are severely limited, with about two Energy potions and about six Healing potion, plus no way to restore either (not counting Minor Heal here). I felt better when I got into the fortress proper. Not only did I have some nice stuff Newsom dropped, but I also could now buy some spells and energy potions. I picked up two levels in Bolt of Fire, cleared out the Nephil's bedroom, grabbed the Fiery Wand(should be useful) and am going to head off into New Harston tomorrow.

[Jerakeen]

You keep referring to Spellcraft "for energy". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Intelligence was the only skill that increased spell energy in A5.

[Dantius]

I thought PS, MS, Spellcraft and INT all increased Energy, but Magery didn't.

[Student of Trinity]

I found my A5 torment singleton had become a strong all-rounder by the later part of the game. Once he could cast all spells, or even most of them, putting more points into caster abilities was giving him very little noticeable benefit, so melee skills became attractive. Plus his divinely touched blademaster skill had reached high levels. It got to the point where against individual enemies it was well worth whacking away with his halberd. It took a bit longer, but gave the same outcome and saved spell energy. He finished the game with so many spare energy elixirs, he could afford to just spam through either final fortress with Divine Retribution, and this was fun.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Dantius

I thought PS, MS, Spellcraft and INT all increased Energy, but Magery didn't.

Nope. Mage Spells and Priest Spells skill only increase spell energy in BoA.

[Earth]

1 of worst mistakes to do is have caster(s) too low intelligence so he/she/they isn't/aren't much usable in battle.

[Erebus the Black]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Nope. Mage Spells and Priest Spells skill only increase spell energy in BoA.

and SC improves both magics but doesn't give extra SP,
but don't fret it's probably too early in the game for this to have a bad effect, you'd have had/wanted to increase SC eventually, so just wait 2 levels and increase Int proper.

[Erebus the Black]

So you'll use the bonding knife (probably) but will you use the simbiotic cloak?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: avatar42

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Nope. Mage Spells and Priest Spells skill only increase spell energy in BoA.

and SC improves both magics but doesn't give extra SP,
but don't fret it's probably too early in the game for this to have a bad effect, you'd have had/wanted to increase SC eventually, so just wait 2 levels and increase Int proper.

Actually, Spellcraft doesn't even exist in BoA. You're thinking of Magery.

[Dantius]

No loss. Yes, I'll spring for the Symbiotic cloak until I get the Spirit Cloak in the Dark River.