Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 So, I decided to do some digging into the dark and shadowy realm of shops and shopkeeping. Just how do those cheery fellows decide just how badly they want to gouge their customers? So I performed a few tests, and came up with this: Code: # | BUY | SELL0 | 60% | 35%1 | 80% | 32% 2 | 100% | 30% 3 | 130% | 27% 4 | 180% | 25% 5 | 220% | 23% 6 | 280% | 20% The first column is what the designer set the buy or sell price to. The second is the cost relative to the base cost of the item for purchases. And the third is how much they'll buy it back for. As you can see, selling's a bit of a racket. At best, you can only get 35% of the item's actual value. At worst, you get a meager 20%. That means a 2400 gold sword will only net you, at best, 840 gold and, at worst, 480. Buying, thankfully, isn't quite as bad. At least, not till it gets to the "Exorbitant" setting. That same 2400 gold sword could be purchased for as little as 1440. On the other hand, as it reaches the end of the scale, you could wind up paying as much as 6720 gold. Ouch. I realized that, with this, I could determine a bit more. Namely, the base costs of spells and skills. So, I ran further tests and compiled the results into one massive table. Code: # | X MAGE SPELL | VALUE PRIEST SPELL | VALUE POTION RECIPE | VALUE 1 | x1 Bolt Fire | 50 Healing | 40 Healing Potion| 50 2 | x3 Light | 30 Curing | 40 Curing Potion | 100 3 | x5 Call Beast | 75 War Blessing | 50 Hasting Potion| 150 4 | x9 Spray Acid | 75 Terror | 50 Energy Potion | 200 5 | x13 Haste | 75 Repel Spirit | 75 Strength Potion| 250 6 | x19 Slow | 80 Smite | 100 Graymold Salve| 300 7 | x25 Ice Lances | 100 Summon Shade | 125 Balm of Life | 350 8 | x33 Unlock Doors| 90 End. Barrier | 75 Healing Elixir| 400 9 | x41 C. Illusions| 150 Unshackle Mind| 100 Hasting Elixir| 450 10 | x51 Far Sight | 150 Move Mountains| 150 Energy Elixir | 500 11 | x61 Lightning | 150 Mass Healing | 100 Rogue's Elixir| 550 12 | x73 Capture Mind| 300 Mass Curing | 150 Strength Elixir| 600 13 | x85 Simulacrum | 300 Radiant Shield| 175 Bliss Elixir | 650 14 | x99 Dis. Barrier| 250 Divine Fire | 200 Restore. Brew | 700 15 | x113 Summon Aid | 200 Control Foes | 200 Protection Brew| 750 16 | x129 Forcecage | 200 Cloud of Blade| 250 Heroic Brew | 800 17 | x145 Fireblast | 300 Return Life | 300 Invul. Potion | 850 18 | x163 Arc. Summon | 500 Retribution | 500 19 | x181 Arc. Shield | 500 Restoration | 500 20 | x201 Arcane Blow | 500 Divine Host | 500 21 | x221 22 | x243 23 | x265 24 | x289 25 | x313 26 | x339 27 | x365 28 | x393 29 | x421 30 | x451 31 | x481 32 | x513 33 | x545 34 | x579 35 | x613 36 | x649 37 | x685 38 | x723 39 | x761 40 | x801 41 | x841 42 | x883 43 | x925 44 | x969 45 |x1000 Phew. Anyway, most of it should be pretty self-explanatory. However, the first columns might be a little confusing. That's how much the spell's base cost gets multiplied by for that specific level of the spell (or skill). Basically, a buying a level 1 Bolt of Fire will cost 50 coins. That same bolt of fire at level 10 will cost 2550 gold. At level 25? 15650 gold. And that's assuming you're buying at average prices! Basically, the cost for any spell is this: Code: (BASE COST*LEVEL MULTIPLIER) And that cost is then adjusted by the shop's prices. Thankfully, there is a ceiling to the prices. The price of a spell will never exceed 30000 gold. So, theoretically, you could keep buying spells indefinitely (in practice... not so much). Furthermore, the ceiling is apparently determined before the shop's price adjustment takes affect. If the shop has its prices set to 80%, the cost will never exceed 24000. If set to 60%, it never exceeds 18000 gold. This doesn't work in reverse, thankfully, so if the prices are adjusted by 280%, the cost will still be 30000 gold. Now, one last note: as you may have noticed, the table lacks any reference to the cost of skills in a shop. That's because the base cost of ALL skills is set to 150. So Strength, Luck, Gymnastics, Blademaster, First Aid, and all the others go for the same price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Some very nice spading work. It's good to have information like this at designers' finger tips. One point that could be clarified: Does the price ceiling mechanism work the same for regular items as for spells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 I don't know, I didn't check. I'll get back to you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Nioca Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 Just checked: Yes, items max out at 30000 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Enraged Slith Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I wonder if sell prices max out too or if the game wont let you set a price on an item to greater than 30000. Nice work, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Wow, nice. So basically, you can't buy a spell from a shop once your skill in the spell reaches a certain level. Oh well, it's not like any scenarios leave level 20 arcane blow at your fingertips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Originally Posted By: Excalibur So basically, you can't buy a spell from a shop once your skill in the spell reaches a certain level. No, not at all. As Nioca describes in some detail the game stops the price of spells from increasing to greater than the amount of money the party can carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Callie Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Oh, I was thinking the cap the party could carry was 25,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Lord Iraelithe Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 O_O O_O O_O I have no clue what you just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 If you have a question, then ask it clearly, please. The piece of information that I think you are missing is that when BoA designers create shops in their scenarios they set a number which determines the pricing at that shop. However, until this analysis, no one actually knew exactly what the settings did, besides the general trend that higher settings made the shop's prices worse. Nioca has now determined quantitatively how the prices depend on the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 *applause* Useful information indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I could have sworn there was a chart in the docs somewhere that had this information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Niemand Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 The docs do contain charts covering the same topic as Nioca's first chart, yes. (I had forgotten that.) However, they do not contain most of the data that he posted as best I can tell. There is, however, a curious discrepancy between Jeff's and Nioca's charts for selling items; Jeff claims the effect of different sell_adjustment values is far stronger than what Nioca shows. I suspect that the documentation may not be in agreement with the software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Lazarus. Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 The Cookbook had the chart of price adjustment vs buy/sell price. Actually the cookbook has slightly different values, it claims that for 1,3,5 the values are 32.5/27.5/22.5 (so each point decreases sell price by 2.5%) Possibly Nioca tested with a 100 gold item, so he didn't notice the fraction of a percent. Or possibly the Cookbook is just wrong. That's the first time I've seen the base sell price of spells though. Coolio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Celtic Minstrel Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Originally Posted By: Niemand I suspect that the documentation may not be in agreement with the software. Yeah, that seems to be annoyingly common around here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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