Jeff, Valorim was cool!!

[Carranzero]

Hey. What about Avernum 5 being able to travel through all the Empire continents? It would be cool......---------

[*i]

More is not always better. In this case, I'm willing to bet it would be worse.

[Randomizer]

I think Jeff wants to keep Avernum 5 in Avernum instead of the Empire. Although some day he should get back to the surface to deal with the Darkside Loyalists.

 

It would be nice to go back to the surface for a real adventure and not fighting plagues.

[Carranzero]

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:
I think Jeff wants to keep Avernum 5 in Avernum instead of the Empire. Although some day he should get back to the surface to deal with the Darkside Loyalists.

It would be nice to go back to the surface for a real adventure and not fighting plagues.

avernum should import horses for faster travelling...

i can't imagine myself riding a lizaard at high speed

[*i]

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it wouldn't work. I've seen some pretty fast little lizards in the American Southwest.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I am interested to know why you think more would be worse.

[Alorael at Large]

Quality over quantity. Jeff can't produce a huge and good game in a reasonable length of time. Even Valorim was dependent on absolutely generic towns.

 

—Alorael, who would rather have a tiny and immensely developed area. Maybe that would even lead to real character development for NPCs within a single game.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I suppose you are correct. It is a pity that Spiderweb cannot get some kind of team together that exists for the sole purpose of creating tiny back stories for towns and provinces and whatnot. They don't have the funds you say? I'd pitch in for free, and I am sure there are a few of you who would as well.

[Fort]

There are plenty of people with active imaginations who can help in this area, but telling Jeff what to do is not going to solve the problem that he still has to do the nitty-gritty stuff of putting it in.

 

In order for the game to be larger, we would really need him to have another programmer who could create towns and script while he dealt with relatively more important issues in the game.

[Student of Trinity]

If I ever became perversely rich (by which I mean, rich to a perverse degree, not rich by perverse means), I would toy with the idea of commissioning Jeff to do a game. Just get him to take twice as long to make a game, by paying him in advance the expected earnings of one game.

 

Failing that sort of deal, there are bound to be trade-offs in his oeuvre between volume and density.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Garrison:
There are plenty of people with active imaginations who can help in this area, but telling Jeff what to do is not going to solve the problem that he still has to do the nitty-gritty stuff of putting it in.

I guess you are correct, I just always imagined that scripting would go ten times faster if you knew in advance what you were going to script. But then, I'm an emperor, not a game programmer.

As for the perversely rich commissioning idea: I've always said the same thing myself. Only, before going to Jeff, I did promise myself I would buy the rights to Fallout 3 and get that game back on track first.

[Carranzero]

Yeah, you're right.. better not to tell Jeff what to do, it's always better to let HIS imagination to work out..

 

As he said in BoA: Better a tiny scenario with lots of NPC's and very developed than a gigantic world with almost no NPC and too many generic towns

[Alorael at Large]

You can't script or program at all unless you know what you're making, but it's really not much fun to just write whatever you're told to write. Jeff has already said that part of why he writes shareware is so he can write his own games how he wants them, not how a company thinks they should be.

 

A team could do some of the grunt work for Jeff, but he seems like the kind of person who would rather do it himself anyway.

 

—Alorael, who believes Bethesda Softworks is still ostensibly working away at Fallout 3. They'd be happy to get more money, though.

[Fort]

I'm sure Jeff would actually love to make his game as tactically complex as the large games he often says he plays, and include an in depth storyline. But these things take time and to me it seems that he would prefer to make things a little more complex each time rather than try a revolutionary jump.

[Midknight Warrior]

Actually, horses in avernum would suck. Horses are expensive, and considering how soft and wonderful avernum ground is, you'd ride through 30 horses in a year. Imagine, if asphalt is bad for their hoofs (even when shoed) what the rocky, pebbly, rotting GIFT-leggly avernum ground would do to them.

 

On another note, there isn't really anything more to do in avernum. the rentar story is basically over. No matter how you look at it, either rentar is out of the picture, or on the surface with another e/a III... Or the darkside loyalist thing which could be a bigger version of the "a small rebellion" scenario....

 

Rentar dies: Darkside loyalists=only plot left

 

Rentar lives in vahnatai lands: Presumably peaceful rentar leaves only darkside loyalists as a plot, and if she tried again, it would be cheap.

 

Rentar lives in the surface: Exile III part II... I don't think that's gonna happen, leaving the darkside loyalists, again.

 

So that means that, either something new is gonna happen, or the darkside loyalists are gonna be the main event in A V. I wonder how you get avernum adventurers to be empire heroes, maybe AV should be with empire citizens?

 

Or, bring back another classical villain, like Grah-Hoth, or a band of rogue sorcerers steal vahnatai knowledge and make a crystal soul of erika?

[Alorael at Large]

Or go to some absolutely new part of the caves, have a new villain, and do something completely original!

 

Jeff has at least said he's giving the epic quest to save humanity a rest.

 

—Alorael, who wonders why three bands of old adventurers are just sitting around now. Yes, a little bit of explanation is given, but surely there are good uses for experience and heavily armed sociopaths.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I always imagined the old adventurers died doing what they love best, which would explain why all their legendary equipment is always redistributed throughout Avernum.

 

As for a new plot, Vahnatai lands sounds like a good idea. New, bizarre alien monsters, plenty of demons, the works. Avernum games really should take place in caves.

 

I really hope Rentar still lives. Perhaps a new, repaired Rentar would be the one that calls our heroes to the Vahnatai lands in the first place, probably to help her fend off whatever threatens the Vahnatai. How ironic it would be to help the scourge of mankind against enemies that now threaten her people. Or perhaps your party could actually be Vahnatai? Oh, but then I’d miss the nephilim.

[Tyranicus]

Quote:

Originally written by Alo:
—Alorael, who would rather have a tiny and immensely developed area.

Jeff already made that game. It's called Nethergate, and is what I consider his greatest work to date. The sales say otherwise though.

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
I always imagined the old adventurers died doing what they love best, which would explain why all their legendary equipment is always redistributed throughout Avernum.

Well, not all of it. Pachtar's Plate and such don't reappear, and some weapons have lost/regained their allure over the decades (Jade Halberd, anyone?). And in A4, the Orb finally disappeared, owing to the lack of elevation, I assume...

Come to think of it, Pachtar's Plate got me thinking... why didn't any of the other adventurers construct elaborate tombs for themselves (assuming a few died happy)? Did they just admit that it isn't worth it with all the other graverobbing adventurers running around?

...did the previous bands inspire the Tests?

I'm more curious as to the backstories of some of these weapons, really... for one, who was Eliavri (sp?), and why is his bow so good? How did the Justice Lance come about?

[Alorael at Large]

Quote:

Originally written by Tyranicus:

Quote:

Originally written by Alo:
—Alorael, who would rather have a tiny and immensely developed area.

Jeff already made that game. It's called Nethergate, and is what I consider his greatest work to date. The sales say otherwise though.

No argument here.

—Alorael, who just took a moment to re-appreciate how different Nethergate was when it was made. Jeff switched to isometric graphics, smaller parties, a very different and more complicated skill system with no levels, and an emphasis on nudity to go with the violence. All in all, it was a big step that really should have been rewarded more.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Quote:

Originally written by Not a Republic:
A team could do some of the grunt work for Jeff, but he seems like the kind of person who would rather do it himself anyway.

That's good enough for me.

As for horses: with the date and time removed from the game, there doesn't seem to be much point to them now. If we really did want horses in Avernum, I think the best thing to do would be to steal the recipe for alien beasts from Rentar-Ihrno's original keep, they would be great mounts!

As for Nethergate: that game really was different. Almost makes you think it was made by someone other than Jeff. It has so many elements that are completely alien to the Avernum and Geneforge series. My personal favorite is the way the two groups of adventurers race against each other, constantly foiling each other's plans.

[Igor]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
If we really did want horses in Avernum, I think the best thing to do would be to steal the recipe for alien beasts from Rentar-Ihrno's original keep, they would be great mounts![/QB]

At least up till the point they throw you from their backs and eat you, yes.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Maybe they'd eat you, but I would show them who's boss. If giant lizards can be tamed, why not alien beasts? You'd just need to feed them the odd goblin here and there. There's plenty of those morsels to go around.

[Dark Mage]

I've said like a thousand times that Jeff should expand the caves of avernum! Something like exploring the areas south of formello, anyone has wondered where the river go??

Or what is north of the northern islands?

I loved the Black Waters part so maybe it should be implemented to be like any part of avernum, not a no return point...just the entrance to the vahnatai land to the poor man that can't afford a teleportation...

And a Complain of A4, where did the ruins of Gharzad fortress go? That would be a very good dungeon.

[Drakefyre]

I thought Jeff said that Avernum 5 would be smaller and set in a previously unknown part of the caves, but I could be wrong.

[Randomizer]

I don't know about smaller, but I remember it was also going to be exploring a new cave area.

[Emperor Tullegolar]

Good. Avernum should take place in caves. However, a spin-off game called Empire might not be such a bad idea. For the Empire!

[Holymonkey]

I'd also like to see the rest of the Empire lands. Be it 1 Province at a time or all of 'em at once.

 

The vast open surface in Exile III was fun. You could head out in any direction just exploring and find seemingly endless amounts of sidequests and other little things to do(at least during the first play-through of the game).

[Ephesos]

Quote:

Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar:
Good. Avernum should take place in caves. However, a spin-off game called Empire might not be such a bad idea. For the Empire!

Like some of the moral choices in Avernum weren't debatable enough... I think I'd rather play "Kill Self, Win Prize" than play a game from the Empire's perspective.

(It would be an impressive, yet completely useless exercise in writing to remake A1-4 from an Empire perspective)

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I wasn't suggesting rewriting Avernum 1-4, Empire would take place on the surface. I suppose that, in order to be at all interesting, it would have to take place before the Empire genocided everyone. Your characters could be the first to explore a new continent. Just imagine, no humans at all. You would be forced to make fragile peace with Nephil or Slith while you surveyed the land for the Empire, totally unknowing of the destruction that would result when they actually come themselves.

 

While on the topic of exploration, I wonder what a game about the First Expedition would be like. Avernum, with no towns, just lots of monsters. You would have the Orb of Thalni from the start! But... you also be destined die horrible deaths in the end.

[Randomizer]

A First Expedition game would have no matter what you do you wind up facing a horrible death. You get to choose between: rejected by Motrax, facing sliths in the Mertis Spiral, battling demons, facing the combined nephil and slith forces, trapped in the Crypt of Drath, etc.

 

I'd rather the first Avernum exiles establishing and mapping the caves. At least there you can survive.

[Carranzero]

Quote:

Originally written by Randomizer:
A First Expedition game would have no matter what you do you wind up facing a horrible death. You get to choose between: rejected by Motrax, facing sliths in the Mertis Spiral, battling demons, facing the combined nephil and slith forces, trapped in the Crypt of Drath, etc.

I'd rather the first Avernum exiles establishing and mapping the caves. At least there you can survive.

Yeah, like an "Avernum Zero" that you travelled alongside with Solberg, X, Erika... and you had to map the caves and help making the glowing, edible fungus, the cavewood, etc.