Garrulous Glaahk Klax Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 I believe I've completed all of the quests for Patrick's Tower, including the librarian's. At least she wants no more books. But there's a room near her that requires 35 tool use to open and seems more a quest reward than having that high a skill to open. Does anyone know how to get into that room? Maybe a combo of tool use and Unlock doors? My tool use is 12 and my mage can open up to 25. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 It isn't a quest reward -- you just need to have a mage/thief with high Tool Use and magical skills, and cast Unlock Doors on it. Dump a few more points into your mage's Tool Use; you'll want at least 15 for disarming traps anyway. Your Mage Spells, Spellcraft and Magery skills also help with Unlock Doors, although not as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 By end game I could unlock lvl 30 doors. How that happened is a mystery as I didn't focus on making that spell any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 With reasonably high Tool Use, Mage Spells, Magery and Spellcraft, it's entirely possible to unlock level-40 doors. So if you have a powerful mage, level 30 isn't really much of a stretch at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 ooh! look at THIS . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Klax Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Synergy, My stats are this: 17 mage, 10 magery, 10 spellcraft. And 13 tool use on my slith. How would this fit into your stat table. Is it the exact combos or the total amount? If I increase my mage spells to 18 could I open a 35 level door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 OK Klax, let's see what you got here: 17 mage 10 magery 10 spellcraft 13 tool use x 1.5 = 19.5 Total door opening power = 56.5. You need 48 points total to open the level 35 door. If any of your skill levels above is earned freely as bonuses from traits, then you have to subtract them. Clearly, this is the case. Ask Alorael to recall his method of calculating how many free levels you have hidden in your level stats. "If I increase my mage spells to 18 could I open a 35 level door?" You could save your game and try . There's no other way of telling until you know your free bonus levels in any relevant skills and recalculating your actual earned points. Also, keep in mind that increasing magery or spellcraft have an equal effect on your magic abilities as incresing mage spell level, so increase whichever is cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 The biggest mistake I made was giving my Nephilim theif 10 lvls of Tool use. Then when the unlock door spell was availabe my human mage with only one lvl of tool use took over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Was there actually anything behind the aforementioned door? I can't seem to remember there being anything useful at all. EDIT: Oh, I must've been thinking of the doors above the Tower of Magi ruins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Wait a minute. Are the character with all the Tool Use and the character casting Unlock Doors the same character? If they're not, the benefits don't stack. Just thought I'd clarify that, if you didn't know already. EDIT: Behind the door is a spellbook of Enduring Armour. Pretty useful if you don't already have the spell, pretty useless if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Klax Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Thuryl, I do indeed have my skills split between PCs. 13 on my Slith for tool use including help from the tinkers gloves and bauble, so his base is really 10. And all my mage skills on my, um, mage. Thanks for saying what's behind the door. At level 36 I don't need that anymore. Synergy, thank you for your insights. I can't imagine the amount of work you must do to calculate your stats. It's much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 You think I'm whacked...go check out some of Slartucker's work in the early A4 threads. If you play again, make your mage the one with Tool Use to make most effective door-opening abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I must have missed something. Skill bonuses from traits don't help with unlocking? Wouldn't that make them bonuses on paper only? —Alorael, who could see extra Tool Use from Nimble Fingers not counting towards the 1.5x points for Unlock Door, maybe. Anything else is just cheating by A4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 My bad...and bad it was. I made a misleap in logic and memory because there was no other apparent reason to me why a mage with 56 door opening points couldn't open a door requiring only 48. And then I mixed the thought with the fact that skill bonuses don't count toward trainable skills. All apologies to the perplexed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Klax Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Synergy, Yes, I've seen Startuckers work. Incredible as well. I still don't like the idea of pinning all my tool use on my mage. She's still only a level 17 in mage spells with items. How much less would she be if I diverted all those skill points to tool use. And what about the thief character? Where does he fit in? Make him a mage as well? Anyway, I gave you and Thuryl a saintly rating which I think both of you deserve. Spiderwebbers who help one another deserve to be thanked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 That was thoughtful of you, Klax. Thanks! Making your mage your thief is a worthwhile combination and can work just fine. You can also make a second mage if you really want a truly potent mage. I found my mage/thief to be plenty potent in the late game, even if he was a bit of a glass cannon. A powerful priest is more of an asset than the mage anyway. Divine Retribution is unsurpassed for sheer skull-shattering gratification. If you poke around some more in some of the Party and Trait threads, and the Singleton thread for A4, you'll see some more discussion on different possible mage/thief constructions, etc. Also, you only need 12 Tool Use and around 14-15 Mage Spell levels technically, as equippable items can bring you up to theoptimal 15 TU and 17 Mage Spells. It's really quite pointless to go over 17 Mage Spell levels. Magery and Spellcraft have the exact same improvement in mage magic strength and will surely be cheaper to bump up at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Klax Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 Yeah, ok, now i'm completely confused. Going for a nap now. I rewarded the intent anyway. Edit: I still think you do great work, Snyergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Doh! If, after your brain-rejuvenating nap, you care to elaborate on what is confusing you, I am sure there are many fine folk on hand here to help clarify, even if one of those persons is not me! But I will resummarize just a little of what I was saying in case it helps: 1) Your mage couldn't open the level 35 door, because she didn't have her own Tool Use to make her Unlock Doors spell more powerful. 2) Making a mage/thief PC makes the most efficient and effective way to open doors throughout the game. 3) It can be considered worthwhile to sacrifice a bit of mage strength or earlier higher levels in mage and magic skills because priests are better being more powerful than mages, both offensively, and defensively by late in the game. And as an additional thought, you could consider making a second mage if you really like mages, like, say, a nephil archer / mage perhaps. This would give you plenty of mageriffic power to indulge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fledgling Fyora Ssstuart Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Um...you don't need 48 points to open a level 35 door. You need 35 points to open a level 35 door. That's what makes it a level 35 door. Your points are equal to: Tool Use + .75 * (mage spells + magery + spellcraft + levels of Unlock spell) So, for example, Tool Use 10 + a combined mage power/Unlock skill of 34 or so will do it. Hmm...you would need 48 magic points with no Tool Use skill at all to open a level 35 door. Is that what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Well-Actually War Trall Synergy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 No, but if you go back and look at the link I posted earlier, you can see the math I was using. It was 1.5 x Tool Use rather than .75 x everything else. Your method, is probably the more correct. Does it actually add up to 35 when used that way? EDIT: Holy cow, Stuart, you've been a member since 2002, and THIS was your second post? Umm, honored I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chittering Clawbug ProperPseudonym Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 edit: nevermind stupid post aarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast VCH Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Most high lvl doors aren't worth opening any way. Minimal rewards generally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 It's a little late now, but the question isn't really what to do with your thief but why you have a thief at all. It's quite possible to get through the game and to open even most of the more ridiculous doors with only a mage. I think I managed to open up to 38 by the end. However, since mage and thief skills complement each other for unlocking, it's best not to have one thief. My own approach was to give all my knowledge brews and wisdom crystals to the mage/thief to let it thieve effectively without sacrificing magic, but you can experiment with different builds. —Alorael, who thinks the real lesson is that the hardest doors are opened by keys, quests, or not worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Quote: Originally written by Que fuera muerto:It's a little late now, but the question isn't really what to do with your thief but why you have a thief at all. It's quite possible to get through the game and to open even most of the more ridiculous doors with only a mage. Unlock Doors doesn't work on traps, though, so you still need Tool Use for that. That still doesn't justify making a thief who isn't also a mage, though. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Trap difficulty hits its maximum at around 15. Doors keep on going. Opening doors with a thief is a much greater expenditure of skill points than disarming traps. Opening locks with a non-thief mage is a large expenditure of skill points too, but you get someone good at something besides doors and traps out of the bargain. —Alorael, who loves him his glass cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk the horned slayer Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 i hacked i may have disrupted the game by hacking the treastury and breaking into king starrus's place as soon as i got to the castle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 arghhhhhhhhh, Dikiyoba is speaking to you and you alone. Please pay close attention. What was the point of bringing up this topic again for this point? There wasn't one. Please don't start topics or bring up week-old topics unless you have something worth saying. You say you don't want to be banned. Well, your behavior says the exact opposite. If you ever want people to take you seriously you, you have to follow people's requests, obey the Code of Conduct, and use common sense. The next time someone posts and tell you how to do something, actually do what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Quote: Originally written by arghhhhhhhhh:i hacked i may have disrupted the game by hacking the treastury and breaking into king starrus's place as soon as i got to the castle! Yeah, breaking into the King of Avernum's quarters, not to mention the royal treasury, sounds like a pretty certain way to disrupt your game. You get no sympathy from me... and this doesn't even belong in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenderfoot Thahd Beegz Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 This was extensively researched by Synergy. A more accurate formula is given here: http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000014;p=2#000044 Quote: Originally written by Ssstuart: Um...you don't need 48 points to open a level 35 door. You need 35 points to open a level 35 door. That's what makes it a level 35 door. Your points are equal to: Tool Use + .75 * (mage spells + magery + spellcraft + levels of Unlock spell) So, for example, Tool Use 10 + a combined mage power/Unlock skill of 34 or so will do it. Hmm...you would need 48 magic points with no Tool Use skill at all to open a level 35 door. Is that what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Ephesos Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Why was this topic revived? I'm just kind of curious, really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnificent Ornk Dikiyoba Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Dikiyoba guesses that this topic keeps getting dragged to friendly towns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotghroth Rhapsody Walter Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 I'm pretty sure the doors to the king's chambers can't be opened at all until you are let in, though it is perfectly possible to break into the treasury from there. As for that door in Patrick's tower, I suspect that Jeff simply made a mistake in not having a quest to open that door. I do wonder about those doors I can't get into above the tower ruins though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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