mikeprichard

True, something to be said about getting access to the Hardiness/Poles trainers as early as Draco and Silvar. I still tend to pump Melee for no particularly good reason, and I've also been spreading my money and skill points around elsewhere in the early/mid-game anyway, but poles would be the fastest way to max Hardiness and get your 15 points for AR on your magic users.

Good point, but I like to stick shielding knives and shields on my casters. I guess since I'm almost never using them to melee attack, though, poles would be OK too.

Juan Carlo - as Lilith mentioned, your magic users should try to plan for 10 Hardiness anyway, so you can try something like this in their combat skill trees, where the "+X" indicate purchased training (see also my character builds in the fourth post of this thread). It's an investment, but it will get you to 15 discipline points without having to rely on items, and allow for max Hardiness as well.

8+2 Melee

+1 Poles

+2 Bows

+2 Thrown

10+2 Hardiness

Although I'm only about 1/3 through my first (and probably final) playthrough, I agree 110% with the OP so far. While I'm also having a great time (as expected), I can't shake the feeling these remakes are in fact "soulless repackaging(s) of... old cash cow(s) to exploit a loyal fanbase and also appeal to a wider audience on Steam for a quick buck" - especially when Jeff's basically admitted as much in his interviews/blog posts. The issue, as you pointed out, is the almost complete lack of intent to try to "improve"/expand/something the original games with the remakes beyond the (welcome) interface updates. What's more, the combat (as discussed in other threads) is starting to slip into stale and repetitive HP-bloated slogs, not helped by the weak melee/ranged vs. magic balance and unimaginative treatment of armor/resistances. It's still not "bad," and still much better than Avadon IMO (hard level caps you reach 2/3 through the game, almost exclusively bland trash mob combat, vanilla setting... meh), but it's somewhat disappointing to a player like me who's been enjoying Spiderweb games since the '90s to witness this gradual decline in quality and innovation.

That said - I've been away from the game for over 10 minutes, and am starting to feel withdrawal pangs, so signing off here. Cheers.

Yeah, I noticed that spot (pre-orb) and was wondering why it wasn't mentioned in the list. Good to know that's what's over there.

Slarty - woah, I forgot that's how that works... again, I'll take that as a bug that I'll be happy to take advantage of. As for whether crits actually pierce armor/resists or simply add flat damage, it seems to be the latter, but I'm not sure.

Hobo Elf - magic being vastly overpowered (and not too difficult to manage SP-wise, especially with a few points of First Aid thrown in) in A2:CS and in the Avernums in general compared to melee/pole/ranged is definitely the consensus. I'm running one DW tank, one priest, and two mage-priests, and finding the mages dominate in terms of damage. Torment players have even reported a 2-priest/2-mage (i.e. no dedicated melee/ranged character) party being perhaps "optimal," and I'm not surprised.

Ah, OK. Sounds like he made quite a few last-minute changes.

To confirm: if I have a longbow (+10% crit chance) equipped, but then attack with a sword/polearm/spell(?), is my sword/polearm/spell attack boosted by the longbow's +10% crit? If so, sounds like a bug (but probably a useful bug for those annoying late-game 90% armor enemies).

It's definitely +2 melee, if that's the question - have the gloves equipped on my fighter right now.

Mass Heal should probably be moved down the list next to Minor Summon - it looks like you need Magi Clearance (in order to talk to Ostoth to learn the tablet's secret) to learn/access both spells. My party with 13 AL and 2 VL, but no access to the magi area, can't understand it - assuming it's the book just to the SE of Motrax near his "bed."

Quick note - Fort Dranlon doesn't sell Daze (the mage there starts with Haste at the top of his list).

Thanks, folks - I just figured that out (I shot over to Dranlon to pick up some cheap spells) and was about to post back. Maybe a note in the list (in the Eastern Gallery section, in addition to the existing note in the Fort Dranlon section) would be helpful; no biggie though.

OK, thanks for adding the caches.

I'm having trouble finding the Forager's Boots, though. The list says they're in the garbage patch N of Cotra, but I've checked both of the patches just to the N/NE of Cotra, and didn't turn anything up. I cheated up Luck (didn't help) and I already have Cave Lore 9, so what am I missing?

Oooooh, purdy. And yeah, I'm not obsessively checking these forums every 15 minutes, or anything crazy like that. Again, awesome work - I'll try to contribute as I can, assuming I can confirm anything 100% (probably by cheating AL/SL values before opening books - except I've already got 2 VL on my party, and I don't know how to cheat-remove those VL points, so my input might not be as useful as could be).

Slarty, awesome work putting this together; this is exactly what we need. Is there any way you could fix the column alignment though?

Two caches are missing from the list: the gold bar N of Cotra, and the Scroll of Return Life NW of Pyrog's Cave (credit to Mechalibur for these).

Randomizer - yeah, the issue with the numbers is it's difficult to parse out AL vs. SL vs. VL within your current totals for each spellbook. If you do have the patience for another non-SL playthrough and to then update the big list, that would be freakin' amazing. Not that you haven't done great work on the list already, as usual.

Man, I remember those days of running into every single wall tile looking for secret doors. That was a damn good time. (No sarcasm, really. )

Perfect timing - I was just going to check if someone had made one of these lists, and here it is. Smashin'.

You did miss a gold necklace in the Vahnatai Lands accessible in Chapter 3 - it's just S/SE of the Test of Strength, by the walled ruins in the open.

Also, according to Randomizer's list, there's a lemonwood longbow cache in the Honeycomb you missed, but I haven't tested that one myself.

Thanks, Mechalibur.

But it's confirmed that the Resistance crystal needs 13 "real" AL points, right? In that case, I'll just get 13 AL + 4 VL, and that will definitely get me both the crystal and all the spellbooks - though it'll probably be overkill for even the toughest spellbooks in the game, from what I'm reading now.

Ha, good for him then!

Yep, this has been requested many, many times (including by me). Why Jeff still hasn't fixed this is beyond me.

Randomizer's item list must be out of date, then - so if the Ward of Steel book doesn't really need AL 17, is AL 15 for Cloak of Blades the highest AL needed in the game? Or is that incorrect as well?

EDIT: OK, I see Lilith posted yesterday that Cloak of Blades only needs either 9 or 12 (depending on whether Vahnatai Lore works for that - dang, juggling SL/VL/AL is getting confusing). Still would be nice to know what the "real" maximum AL for the game is, but I guess we're still figuring that out.

EDIT EDIT: But I guess if you want the Resistance crystal, that's still 13 AL (SL/VL don't work), so in that case you'll end up getting to 17 AL including VL anyway.

Slarty, I was actually thinking of stuff I've read on other forums - I wouldn't call just your one post in this thread "persistent"! I'm also not saying you're implying "dumbed-down," but many I've seen elsewhere have said that. And I agree about shifting emphases over the past few years in CRPGs to meet changing market preferences. All's I'm saying is, RNGs aren't necessary components of a good RPG, IMO, and I've consistently disliked them in my 25 years of playing RPGs (yeah, I'm old).