mikeprichard

Slarty - what exact phrase is opposite to the actual meaning? I thought the discussion was about Parry and Focus Mastery (and as always for all characters, armor/resistance values) acting to reduce damage, not about how you can evade damage altogether (which is something entirely different).

Regardless, I appreciate the advice in this and other topics about the nerfing of evasion's effectiveness generally - so I won't bother to focus on it through pumping Dexterity or equipping +evade items.

In other words, Parry (vs. physical) and Focus Mastery (vs. magical/elemental) are the only skills/abilities that block or reduce damage significantly, but of course armor and other character resistances function as always. It would be interesting to confirm whether that AI hypothesis is actually the case (i.e. certain monsters favor attacks on characters that have lower resistances to their favored damage type), and if so, which specific enemies exhibit this behavior.

OK, I just saw the below answer in Randomizer's "advice for players" thread. As long as I don't hit the level cap 2/3 of the way through the game as I did in Avadon 2 (I'm an OCD completionist who must do every side quest), I guess this is acceptable. Thanks again.

Characters are capped at level 30 just like Avadon: The Black Fortress. Also it takes more experience to go up levels so you reach the cap closer to the end. About a quarter of your experience comes from doing side quests, but if you are careful you can still get through the game without doing them on normal difficulty. Although you will miss out on lots of money and really good named items. Near the end not doing quests will lead to lower levels so you get more experience from those you do complete and the difference narrows. Jeff timed it so you reach level 30 just in time for the end.

Sorry if this is already answered somewhere in the traditional Strategy Central extravaganza, but are hard level caps in for Avadon 3? I'm trying to decide whether to start a playthrough over the next few weeks, or just wait for a sale in a year or so, as the implementation of the caps in the previous games really put me off. Cheers!

I did some more digging in the script file, and found apparently there's only a reputation condition (of less than 100) to join Litalia's faction if you're currently allied with another faction (I'm not in my current playthrough); otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a rep requirement (beyond the indirectly related requirement to start the Trakovite Hunter quest). I've corrected the list above to note this. As for my original confusion with the Trakovite Hunter quest, it does in fact require a rep of less than 100 per the script file dialog entry, and not less than 99 as I suspected yesterday, so the list is still correct on that. Thanks again to all for the tips!

begintalknode 207;

state = 185;

nextstate = 70;

condition = gf(100,0) <= 99;

question = "I swear on my life that I want to serve you. I renounce my old alliance.";

text1 = "You expect something more dramatic. A shock or a bolt of lightning or something. Nothing so spectacular happens. However, you suspect that word of your action will soon filter back to your former master.";

text2 = "Litalia nods. _You have chosen wisely. Our path is filled with peril. We need to make sure there is no going back to where you were before. Now then. Let us discuss the future of the Trakovites._";

The full text of the entry in T34Ttrakovdlg.txt is below; it doesn't have a reputation (100,0) "condition", but the "action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99" does appear at the bottom, whatever that means - and that's what I'm assuming Randomizer focused on when initially saying joining her faction requires a rep of less than 100. However, she only actually says lines "text3" and "text4" in her next screen after I say my line (text1, text2, and text5 don't ever seem to appear in my game), so there's some weirdness going on here I don't fully understand. The only thing I can think of that would make at least some sense would be your idea, but I'm not sure whether I'd actually started this conversation line before this (and I don't have a save in a place where I can check for sure). But almost every other rep check simply involves the "condition = ...gf(100,0)..." arrangement in the script files, which is clear, while the resulting rep increases/decreases use "inc_flag(100,0,X)", which is also easy - so the list should still be mostly OK.

begintalknode 187;

state = 170;

nextstate = 190;

condition = gf(34,9) == 4 && gf(100,11) == 0 && gf(100,3) != 2 && gf(100,4) != 2 && gf(100,5) != 2 && gf(100,2) != 2 && gf(100,6) < 2;

question = "I am ready to join the Trakovites.";

text1 = "_Then know this. I will ask you to perform acts of great ..._ She pauses. _They will be difficult deeds. They will do great harm, to some. But they will prove to the Shaper Council that they cannot continue as they have._";

text2 = "_We will prove they must change. If that means pulling their home down around them, we will do so, in the hope of a better future._";

text3 = "_I will not require you to stop Shaping while you carry out my missions. I am too practical for that. Victory is too necessary for such moral purity. Your path will be difficult enough as it is._";

text4 = "_Will you follow me? Will you trust me and do what has to be done?_";

text5 = "(If you agree, you will join Litalia's faction and be on one of the paths to winning the game. You can leave this path later, but not without penalty. Make sure that this is what you want.)";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99;

My rep is at least 104 (probably 105), and I'm still able to join Litalia's faction by successfully following the dialog options starting with "I am ready to join the Trakovites" after completing the canister cache quest, despite my/Randomizer's list indicating she requires a rep of less than 100 for you to join. This is another of the few places in the list where the text in what I believe is the related script file entry notes "action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99", so Randomizer, is there a particular reason why you interpreted this text the way you did? Even though flag 100,0 (reputation) is involved, it doesn't seem to be working at all the way we originally thought when it's expressed this way. Of course, you only posted the Synergy list 7 years ago, so I'm sure you remember...

Thanks, Randomizer; I'm going to continue to check my character against this list (I'm assuming I'm now at 98 rep, having been at 100 before speaking to Litalia, then choosing her -2 dialog option), but since I'll almost definitely end up doing other reputation-changing quests along the way, I'm not sure if I'll be able to confirm this with 100% accuracy. I'll post back if I find anything more on this, though.

And here I thought you knew everything - that's one demerit!

I haven't yet found any instances of "DEP_ON_SDF x y 0" in the G5 files (having searched about a dozen of the script files), but I recall there were a few reputation checks in my above list that I wasn't smart enough to confirm for myself in the script files two years back, as they involved this "DEP_ON_SDF" formula rather than the more straightforward "gf(100,0)..." formulation when it came to reputation value requirements in dialogs. So, as I'm now inclined to do again, I simply trusted Randomizer's sage judgment in interpreting the above Litalia example as "less than or equal to" rather than "less than" (i.e. "DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99" = "less than or equal to 99" or "less than 100" as in Randomizer's G5 Synergy list). Another example from the T12Dhariadlg.txt file (for the Astoria dialog's reputation requirements in order to join her faction, listed by Randomizer and copied by me above as "less than 103") is below.

begintalknode 124;

state = 86;

nextstate = 87;

condition = 1;

question = "I want to renounce my old alliance. I want to serve you.";

text1 = "She looks into your eyes, trying to gauge your sincerity. _Then swear again, on your life. But know this. Betrayal has consequences._";

text2 = "(If you agree, the faction you agreed to help earlier will turn their backs on you. There is no going back to them. Be sure that this is what you want.)";

text3 = "_Your words and deeds have shown you to be loyal to the Shapers. I could not trust you._";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 102;

Very long story short, in the absence of specific evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to think Randomizer's/my original interpretation here is correct after all. The only reason I thought it might not be correct is because I'm now (in my standard insane obsessive fashion) keeping track of my current reputation using the above list, assuming the player starts at 100, and had thought I was already at 99 when I tried to get Litalia's "Trakovite Hunter" quest, but couldn't - the only way I could was by first using her dialog option to reduce my rep by another 2. So it's probably more likely I somehow missed tracking a +1 rep point for my current player at some point, which meant I was really at 100 when I first spoke with Litalia. Aaaaaanyway... carry on.

Thanks, Slarty; I might try to dig around a bit. In the meantime, is there any way in G5 to view your player's current reputation value (either in the save game files or through an in-game "Shift-D" code)?

I'm doing another playthrough of G5, following my old rep guide here, but I now have reason to believe Litalia's "The Trakovite Hunter" quest actually requires a reputation of less than 99 (rather than less than 100) to start. To confirm, can anyone tell me how I should interpret the below conversation reputation requirement in the relevant z34Trakovdlg.txt file? (I know I need to key on the "dep_on_sdf 100 0 99", but I don't know exactly what that means - "sdf 100 0" refers to the reputation flag, and "99" is the player's current reputation value, but from the context, it seems like the "dep_on_sdf" taken together signifies a requirement of either "99 or less", or "less than 99". So - which is it?) Cheers!

question = "I am interested in becoming a Trakovite.";

text1 = "She looks into your eyes, trying to gauge your sincerity. _Then I will give you a chance to prove yourself. I have learned that I have to be far more careful when deciding with whom I should ally myself._";

text2 = "_To prove yourself, you must first show that you have the strength to do what needs to be done._";

text3 = "_Your words and deeds have shown you to have at least some sympathy for the ways of the Shapers. We could not trust you._";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99

I just hope somebody in the know can confirm Jeff is either finally removing the hard level cap (which I've always found to be a very poor "game balancing" mechanic in practice), or at the very least ensuring you won't reach it 2/3 of the way through the game as happened to me in Avadon 2. That really killed a lot of the fun for me in the final 20 hours. If it's going to be handled the same way in Avadon 3, I may need to wait a year or so and pick this one up on a sale.

That said, a new Spiderweb game is never a bad thing. And as a bonus, this means the Avernum 3 remake should be wrapped up in the next couple years - can't wait to get back into that one with Jeff's shiny new-ish UI and graphics treatment.

Hyena - just checking in for a bit, and not sure if you're still around, but to confirm: from my previous extensive testing on two different game files, there's no "random factor" in the town destruction schedule.

I previously started a stickied thread with suggested improvements that would make Avadon 3 a much better gameplay experience than Avadon 1 and 2: http://spiderwebforu...y-suggestions/.

But if nothing else, for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE REMOVE THE LEVEL CAP. That is all.

P.S. As Kelandon mentioned, I really appreciate your working directly with us on the forums to solicit suggestions and feedback. It's frankly the first time I've seen this kind of interaction from Spiderweb during the development cycle (outside the closed beta testing team). I'm sure it will make Avadon 3 that much stronger, and hope this closer connection to the fan community is a trend that will continue with future titles!

nobear - just checking in for a bit; thanks for continuing to post the results of your testing! Few points:

Nature Lore - it sounds like you've tested every single cache in the game except for the one way in the NW near the border wall; if you test that one and post the final result (I'm thinking it will either be your existing 22 requirement or maybe 23/24), I'll update the OP.

Vahnatai Lore - the "30" estimated total in the OP is for Rune Reading, not Vahnatai Lore (although I confirmed in-game that VL points do add to the displayed Rune Reading total in the character sheet), so I have no idea on that one. It looks like the VL requirements may remain a mystery for now.

Pathfinder - I didn't do any serious testing of this myself, but Hardiness and resistances don't have anything at all to do with the effects of Pathfinder (which only affects whether you take damage when walking over damage terrain). Just don't want you wasting time trying to factor those in to the Pathfinder effects somehow. But here's a suggested test: with 24 total Pathfinder, try walking over lava for a few minutes - just make sure you don't use a lava area with periodic "explosions" like the giants' caves, as those aren't negated by Pathfinder. If you never take any damage after doing that, I think we can confirm your number.

Cheers!

I've confirmed with 98% confidence that the trap in Sharimik City Hall, at 29 required Tool Use, is the hardest trap in the game, followed by certain others at 24, 22, and 21; updated the OP.

Also, I'll be taking a break from Avernum for a while, but feel free to post more info here on these (especially the unconfirmed Rune Reading/Vahnatai Lore and Nature Lore skill requirements) and other skills. Later!

Avernum 3 remake: Giant Intelligent Friendly Talking Slimes. You heard it here first.

Right, Colchis (like Appleton, Erox, Execa, etc.) wasn't included in the list, as it can't ever be considered a "friendly" town. Unless you consider the slimes friendly...

I actually think you're right about certain special encounters needing VL; I'm just not sure which ones they could be, and don't want to give you any misinformation.

So if you're just starting a new game and wouldn't mind helping out, it'd be great if you save before each cache/VL book, then edit the skills by a point at a time to test the exact skill values required. I only got kind of serious about this thread after I was several hours in, and don't quite have the dedication to start over and do this myself, but just throwing it out there if you're really interested in this. You would be advancing the cause of Avernum 3 min-maxing analysis. So there's that.

EDIT: I just remembered you can't actually edit Vahnatai Lore in the Character Editor (though you can still edit Nature Lore and Intelligence - NL's "base" stat), and I doubt you want to run back to Ghikra and buy 1 point at a time every time you run into a VL event (although there aren't that many of those, I think). But do whatever works.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to nail down exact amounts of required Rune Reading and Vahnatai Lore (or Nature Lore - not sure where Earth Empires got that ~23 NL value for caches, though it's likely to be pretty accurate from my limited testing); that's why I've still got ?s next to those issues in the OP. But I can tell you I bought 5 levels of VL for each of my 4 PCs in Ghikra relatively early, and I never encountered any related events afterwards I couldn't handle. You also get at least 5 free points for each PC at various points in the mid/late game (including 2 points in the Defiled Crypt), but in order to get them, you'll need at least a couple points of VL on your characters to start with.

Not sure about special encounters (what exactly those might be, and how much they might need), and digging through the old forums is turning up a lot of conflicting info - or no info at all.

Pathfinder doesn't have any effect on general poison resistance, if that's what you mean; it will only help you avoid damage from walking on terrain like swamp (poison), lava (fire), etc. Anyway, you'll find that at 20 total points, you'll still occasionally get poisoned from walking on swamp terrain. But at 40 points (10x4), I'm no longer having any issues at all with either swamp or lava, at least not so far.

Yeah, that's what I'm finding, too. But the A3 remake should be coming out in about two years (after Avadon 3), so I'll be looking for you fine folks to do your thing then. I'll probably revisit this list to update it for the remake as well.

I've found that 20 total points of Pathfinder in your party will get you through swampy terrain without getting poisoned 99% 95% of the time, while 40 points (or possibly less) seems to allow you to even walk on lava without taking any damage. That said, I haven't focused on testing that skill, but if you're planning a new playthrough, feel free to post anything you find through your own testing here, and we can make this a mini-"Strategy Central" for A3, at least for skill info.

nikki - OK, I should've known that; I've seen Jeff post on the forums occasionally.

Also, confirmed that Vahnatai Lore points add to the Rune Reading point total, and updated the OP.

Thanks, Slarty! Too bad you and Randomizer et al. weren't working your magic to Strategy Central-ize these older titles back in the day, but hopefully this info is useful. Note that a site admin did add a link to the sixth post in this thread (which should probably now just point to the first post in the thread due to my recent edits) to the header of the main First Trilogy forum a couple years ago, but pinning it is very convenient. Anyway, cheers.