Ming

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: What got Jeff was the beta tester stockpiling bags of flour in hopes there was a quest that needed it. Was that the "Bread for a Kingdom" quest, or the "Red Flour Beetle Breeding" quest?

dxwnd is out there if you google it. Seems like most people use it for Maple Story. Certainly a much simpler solution than mine.

Wot is joo sayee--n'? It's oh my got! (search Urban Dictionary)

Quote: Originally written by KnowledgeBrew: A4 was perfect aside from the whole not being able to transverse the whole screen with one MC. That is actually highly annoying. If there is some reason I need to stop, then stop me wherever or whenever I hit the obstacle, but otherwise let me travel as far as anywhere I've revealed on the map previously.

I am caNnot write fuLl sentenses yes? Wow, I really do hate textspeak with the strange breaks for text. It's like writing a sentence longer than 5 words is a chore, and paragraphs are unheard of. I have to wonder if we will have people speaking like this to each other in social situations soon. "so is you... gonna... eat.... that ---- I think it is a... good pie?" "nO this is my... pie... I --- eat IT!" It's double-plus ungood if you ask me. Or perhaps I'm just wrong and its all some kind of deep Haiku! Serious error. All shortcuts have disappeared. Screen. Mind. Both are blank.

Comparing Nethergate:Res. to A4, I have to say that while I miss some things from the old engine, like elevated terrain, less character portraits, and the cool/fun Phil Foglio-type artwork for the skills (not sure who did it for N:R), I prefer Avernum 4's look and feel on the whole. And I have not played much of Geneforge, so I'm not biased that way. I just think the BoA / N:R engine is past its prime and too retro for most casual non-retro gamers to enjoy. I feel confident in telling a non-retro gamer to try Geneforge 4, for instance. That said, I think BoA will stand the test of time and be a classic that will outlive Avernum4 in the long run. Avernum 5 on the other hand, sounds like it will be a really great game. What I don't want to see in the future is a cheesey 3-d engine with chunky textured graphics like the original Neverwinter Nights as Jeff's next new engine. Or close ups with 3d characters talking that have mouths that don't move (but heads that bob strangely). If that is the case I'd just rather see a refinement and enhancement of the A5 engine. BTW, do the characters in A5 have moving feet like in Geneforge 4, of "floating" feet (static upright stances) like in all the Avernums? From what I recall, the Geneforge4 characters actually look like they are walking. If he does go 3d, I'd rather see him do so while sticking with a fixed isometric view style, like some RTS games do, zooming in only temporarily for the fun of checking out your character in different angles and without a lot of camera angle funkiness during the game. In other words, to add depth and realism, not confounding game play and camera angle manipulation.

Found some iron bars, sold them to Dawdy (smith in Fort Monastery) and noticed that while the other active quests go away this one does not. Trying to clear my active quests before I move on, so....does Dawdy ever say "enough" or is this quest forever on your active list?

Thanks for the feedback, I still am early enough in the game that I could swap out for a Nephil for at least one of the characters. Oddly enough I had one initially, and felt he was progressing poorly so I swapped him out with another human! I hadn't considered how he might benefit later in the game.

Quote: Okay, I just tried the workaround for fudging the character graphics mentioned here again. This is another thing I'd tried before, but hadn't been able to make work. Well, today is my lucky day, I guess, because it worked fine for me this time. Yay! (I must have been totally out to lunch the day I tried all these things before or something, I dunno.) Anyway, thought I'd add that, both to forestall the advice, and also to direct any new readers to that trick. I'm only in the beginning of A4, but does this imply that it is very difficult to play with Human characters? I haven't been doing so badly with an all human group so far (fighter-type custom, rogue-type custom, shaman, sorcerer).

Start a new game in any recent Avernum. Check out "Cordelia's" dress slit! Gotta thank Phil Foglio for that, I'd guess. After all, he did pen XXXenophile...

Quote: Originally written by m4mitchell: I dislike that items are often hidden by walls, especially important things, such as trapdoors. I really don't like the fact that spells no longer have letters attached to them - yes, I can still press 'a' in order to select the first spell, but it's difficult to know which letter to press when it comes to the later spells. Of the things you wrote, this is the only one I agree with. My guess is that the editor Jeff uses is in 2D (like the editor for BoA) so he cannot see how bad this is when he's making the game. I hope that the playtesters for A5 let Jeff know when a trapdoor is "hidden" like that (there's an important one in the very first town of A4, and that' just wrong). There is nothing good or realistic about having the POV hide an object. Venatrix Avia, I also miss the ability to click on an object on the ground to examine it, rather than using the "pick up" option. I wonder how hard it would be for Jeff to add that back in.

Don't give up! I'm trying to get creative here and thinking you might consider running a virtual machine on Vista which can then run in a window. It sounds complicated but its really not. If you look at the screenshot below, you'll see how the "full screen" Geneforge 1 would actually be in a window as a virtual windows session. Try the free download of Virtual PC 2007. Or, perhaps there is a good Mac OS emulator that could also be run in a window, and you could download the Mac version! OR...you could do a remote desktop connection to a laptop running Geneforge in fullscreen... I can't think of a reason why this would not work for you. It's not like Geneforge is a fast-paced graphic wonder like Bioshock. It should run fine without lag. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/overview.mspx

Quote: Originally written by Washington Irving: I have to vote for Exile too. I really like the simplicity of the 2D world. For the record: I also liked the Ultima games, I've heard this a few times now. Am I the only one who didn't stop playing Ultima after Ultima 5? Ultimas 6 and 7 were my favorites (especially the Fujitsu FM-Towns version of 6 I owned with all voice acting), and improved the graphics dramatically. I see the Geneforge engine as more like Ultima 7, and the old Avernum engine as Ultima 6. Exile more like Ultima 5, just without the black background/white characters look. As long as Jeff keeps his colorful room descriptions a part of the game and keeps developing the Avernum world, I will keep gladly buying. I'm a retro gamer, but I don't want Jeff's audience to be limited to hard-core retro gamers. I doubt he'd be able to support himself that way. BUT...I'll agree its a fine line for Jeff to walk between keeping his faithful who were probably attracted to his games for the retro feel, and not turning off potential new buyers with a game thats "too" retro in its look and feel.

Well, those were mostly fan-made rips of other artist's work. If you look at the original Baldur's gate, there were about as many as in the Avernum series. Very well painted and beautiful, but the portraits were limited. It's not like Jeff can just go in to the NWN:Vault and steal some portraits for the games he sells. Besides, I'm guessing he wants some sense of consistency in the portraits that look like the work of Phil Foglio.

Quote: Originally written by Spidweb: Avernum 5 has far fewer trivial monsters, both in the wild and in dungeons. There are 6 new character graphics. 2 human, 2 nephil, 2 slith. - Jeff Vogel Great news, Jeff. Another reason why I love this board is the chance to read feedback from the programmer himself. Now I'll just have to keep myself busy with the three games I bought until early 2008...!

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: A4 and A5 have two groups of quests. The job board which is based on the dispatcher of A3/E3 idea and there are quests that you get from talking to people. It's easy to miss them if you take the wrong dialog branch or find that you got one and didn't notice it while playing. I liked that the job board can be empty, but then something (like where you've been on the map?) triggers more postings to it. Quote: Jeff did do what he said about adding more character graphics especially for the nonhumans. Still it would be nice to have a few more. There's always A6. It never occurred to me that it was probably pretty lame to have a full Slith party with two character portraits. Those Slith, they all look alike 'ya know. I guess Jeff's idea was that he needed a single portrait to match with a single model and have each one be unique, but really, a different colored loincloth and different portrait would be fine for me. Same goes for the Humans. Bring back all of the old portraits Jeff!

Quote: 2)I also got used to Geneforge movement (one click where I want to go)that I liked it very much. Wow, that is certainly my favorite aspect, and I forgot about it completely. I often click as far away as possible and grab for a sip of coffee while they move. Quote: Beta testers aren't supposed to reveal details about the game before release. But I'm pretty sure Jeff has already stated here somewhere that there will be a few more player character models in A5. Oops, on the beta thing. Good to hear about more player char. models though! And even if he doubles up the portraits on one model and just changes the color scheme I won't complain. Quote: I'm pretty sure that A4, like the Geneforge games, lets you pick things up by typing the letter of the little 'box' in which each object shows up, after you type 'g' for 'get' stuff. So 'g' then 'a' will move the first visible item from the ground or container into the inventory of the active character. I've always ignored those little letters, so thanks for pointing that out, I'll see if keyboarding it will actually make things faster, sounds like it will. Also...up on the Avernum 5 page I saw a screenshot that had what I think is a new Slith portrait (since A4): http://www.avernum.com/avernum5/images/Avernum5CrateAmbush.jpg More portraits, yay!

So I've been playing some Avernum 4 and reading about it here and have some feedback on what I like and dislike (not much on the latter). I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, especially if you've been testing Avernum 5. For perspective, I owned Exile: Escape from the Pit, and bought/played through some of both of Nethergate: Res. and Blades of Avernum. Played through some of the other demos, and a GeneforgeIV CD is in the mail! Likes: Graphics - smoother graphic movement, battle animation, better textures and shading overall. I put extra weight on this aspect as it has improved the gameplay feel for me more than anything else. The dislikes I have (below) are small concerns since I like the new look so much. User Interface - Aside from picking up items, everything seems to work much slicker and more intuitively. I like the Journal icon on the sidebar, for instance, more than the list of quests in the character screen in N:R. Ambient sound effects: They might not have changed much, but I still like the various background effects. (I haven't heard that annoying "crying boy at the market" yet!) Job Board: Very cool idea. Get quests in one location, too rather than running around. Area descriptions: As usual, the Spiderweb Soft. descriptions of areas and rooms add much to the feel of the game. Perhaps my favorite aspect of the SS games. For some reason the Avernum IV conversations and descriptions seem better than ever. Dislikes: Less PC Character Models/Portraits - I miss the cool looking female Slith wizard and additional human faces / bodies from Blades of Avernum. There is no tough-guy looking human fighter anymore, just the goatee'd dude who looks like a strong puff of wind could knock him over (yes, I know he's "wiry" - ha) User interface - something about picking things up and/or clicking on items to pick up or identify seems to include an extra step compared to BoA and N:R. A lot of dragging and dropping into inventory. Maybe I've yet to figure out the trick. Load Game: Double clicking load game doesn't load my games. It's a click, move, click checkmark extra step. Graphics: Characters appear a bit too..."upright", especially when moving. I'd like to see more crouching, springing, striding and battle-ready stances. Neutral: Sounds - Just OK. Icons - seem a bit dated compared to the rest of the engine, perhaps just because I've seen the same icons in N:R and BoA. Maybe its that the leather armor icon, for instance, doesn't seem to share the same depth of shading that the Geneforge engine provides. Overall it looks great, and I'm hyped about Avernum 5. I have to wonder if any of my dislikes were addressed.

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: There should be one inner gate open with the Romans going to the north wing and the Celts allowed into the south wing. Also there is an area to the west around the center where the Eye is stored that should be explored. Thanks Randomizer I'll try that! It must've just appeared like there was no way to enter - perhaps I was trying the Roman gate (I'm playing Celt).

Quote: Originally written by Synergy: If I read your request correctly, you are looking for the nearby hidden lever that opens the crypt to the south of where Khyryk stands...yes? It's very nearby. Move your mouse cursor around behind things that could hide it from your god-like view, yet in reality, would leave it in plain sight of your character. -S- LOL, I noticed that in Geneforge 1 Demo right near the start point of the game. And I'm not quite sure what I opened with it. Nothing nearby or obvious.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but my current quest involves going to the Faerie castle in the SW corner of the map (Aethdoc?). Yet when I get there, the inner gate is closed to me. What am I missing?

Here's a mix of old abandonware game music, deep dark fantasy type (torrent download): Dungeon Delving Soundtrack for RPG Games

Quote: Originally written by Jumpin' Sarcasmon: Quote: Originally written by Ming: I've long felt that games or movies with sequel numbers can alienate potential buyers, but perhaps there are just as many who feel a higher number indicates "latest & greatest". Finally Fantasy! Don Qui Kong! Ha , no I meant more like: Batman Returns, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Vampires: Los Muertos....with games I can't think of as many examples. Donkey Kong Country? Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon? Software seems to go for the "2.0" type of thing more to indicate newness.

Does anyone else think Jeff should minimize the "5" in the title since you'll be playing as a soldier of the Empire this time? Maybe give it a sub-title, such as "Soldiers of the Empire"? (Please Jeff, feel free to use that, I won't mind. ) From the game description it sounds like someone entirely new to the series could get into the game with a rich background they could just as well be ignorant of (as soldiers of the empire, not Avernites) while old timers will enjoy seeing all of the Avernum references from another point of view (like the Romans vs. Celts in Nethergate). I've long felt that games or movies with sequel numbers can alienate potential buyers, but perhaps there are just as many who feel a higher number indicates "latest & greatest".

Quote: Originally written by ef: The character graphics though, well, this is what I mean: The older one is alive and sparkling compared to the new ones. I see what you mean. The newer character models despite being animated smoothly, have a much smaller range of motion. I did notice that in the Geneforge 4 demo the people walk around a little too upright and board-like. I'll guess that has to do with maintaining the smoothness while not having a massive number of animation frames that could potentially slow down the game. On a side note, I recall reading somewhere that Japanese game makers (think Nintendo) went for that "chibi" or dwarves with big heads and eyes look because it made it easy to use fewer animation frames and keep the movement looking smooth. If the arms and legs are really short, then you can get away with fewer frames of animation, perhaps as few as only three. If they're long, having the leg positions move from an extended and open stride to closed and upright looks really bad without more frames. In Jeff's games this is complicated further by the fact that his characters are not 2D, but you can see them from different angles. This is probably why you don't see the same kind of Erol Flynn type swashbuckling movements as in the older one you posted. The new Avernum and Geneforge character animations remind me a bit of the Avatar in Ultima 8. Notice how most of the characters here except for the executioner have a sort of stiff, upright stance: