BenS

Lots of good ideas in this thread, and I was quite pleased to see Jeff plans to redo the Geneforge series, which I loved.

 

On topic, I'm tired of how "cleave" damage works. I wouldn't mind it if certain attacks damaged a PC adjacent to the target--but 2 spaces away is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that it seems certain enemies have a far easier time of inflicting cleave damage on a secondary target than if they made that the primary target.

 

I would change cleave damage to only work w/ 2-handed weapons (and certainly not missile weapons like arrows!), and even then the secondary target would be adjacent to the first. By limiting it to 2-handed weapons, your PC makes a choice between raw damage output and better defense via a shield.

 

Speaking of 2-handed weapons, I didn't understand why you'd add an attribute to a pole weapon that increases magical damage? A melee type isn't going to have Int very high (or even be casting spells), while a mage type isn't going to be using pole weapons due to low Str and other obvious reasons.

 

I loved the Scarabs, but by limiting their base damage to either Dex (Blademasters, Shadowwalkers & Tinkermages) or Int (Shamans & Sorcerers), I think this system shorts a Str-based melee character. Just even it all out by saying a Scarab's base damage is built off a PC's highest stat, whatever that may be.

 

That's all I have at the moment.

Ok, finished the game, and found it a great remake of an already fun and addictive game. Better graphics; I like the new way skills and perks work; I loved the new outdoor map, showing you where quest locations were; recent innovations like the junk bag are a nice touch; little touches like the Medals are fun. That's what immediately springs to mind.

 

EDIT: not forcing the game to be over even when you've done the 3 major quests was a nice touch; nod to Skyrim?

 

Constructive criticism: money is a bit too tight. I couldn't afford to quite buy all the spells x2, never mind any training. Also, when you do quests for someone who charges an arm and a leg for their services (spells or whatnot), why not get reduced prices as a reward. Perhaps even in lieu of gold and/or items. It bothers me that certain spell trainers never lowered their prices, despite your interactions w/ them; though I'll acknowledge some did (I think--maybe just offered cheap spells once you did something important for them or their faction).

That worked, thanks. I decided not to try and fight Sulfras, though. Someone else will have to enjoy his treasure...

Is Jeff remaking all 6 Avernum games? If so, what will that do to the Avadon series?

Something odd about this. When you talk to the bound demon that used to work for Erika, the greeter for the dragon, it intimates she's plotting her revenge through a statue she's placed in the area. I found the hidden statue, but it didn't have anything to say to me. I then returned to Erika, but the topic of Sulfras and her hidden statue never came up for me to explore.

Did I miss something obvious or is this broken in some way??

Well, guess I was over leveled. No problem w/ Tassik-Schai for my 15th level party. Probably good I didn't meet him a few levels earlier.

 

It is amazing what a level or two can do to make you better prepared for a fight, I'll say that.

I definitely wasn't optimized for that fight--didn't even have Mass Healing. But a lifesaver for sure was my Shade, who was immune to most of the attackers' damage, and drew aggro quite well depending on where it was positioned.

 

I feel like I've been playing the infamous Demon's Souls on the PS3 ;-)

 

Now let's see how I fare against another pre-nerf boss fight, the Slith leader on that island...

Wow, that final Spiral Pit boss fight was insane. Took me hours to do w/ a 13th level party, w/ many different attempts. Not sure what the suggested level should be for that fight, but damn that was a bear.

 

One independent complaint I could make: if your precious Return Life scroll is not going to bring anyone back b/c of spacing issues--don't let that burn up the scroll! That is just cheap and wrong.

Answered my own question. It's the latter, thankfully.

Do you have to give all the items you want to sell to the PCs w/ Negotiator for it to kick in, or does the game just track it for the party as a whole?

 

I hope it's the latter, b/c that would be a lot of micro-management every time you sell off loot.

I'm going to feel real stupid if I missed something here, but are you implying there was something in those 2 secret rooms that would have aided me in the fight?

Thanks to Achire for presenting the voice of complaint of the casual gamer to the Redbeard fight. And to The Turtle Moves for bringing part of the complaint into focus. The story is set up, w/ your aggrieved companions, to clearly present a choice between staying loyal and rebelling against Redbeard. An either/or ending w/ slight variations. There's just no compelling reason to make 1 of those 2 basic choices so aggravatingly hard and/or tedious (YMMV).

And thanks for agreeing w/ me on the "extra help" from Heart Miranda for rewarding total disloyalty, which was my 2nd playthrough.

I think Jeff would be well served to retune that final fight for the Windows players, honestly. They're a larger pool of gamers, and for a new series trying to attract new SW players, I just think it's best to avoid turning some of them off w/ the current version of the Redbeard fight.

Seems like you and I had the same experience. I played the 1st time through as a loyalist, but never got a chance to fight Beloch & Zephyrine w/out redoing too much of the end sections. So I tried again, still on Hard, beat them, and then went for Redbeard as a rebellious Hand. I had him pretty close, but ran out of resources, and at that point, the fight had taken way too long to want to attempt it again. And I lost my last character.

My worry is that this fight is indeed too hard and/or long for most people (*) who will play this game. I've played every post-Exile game SW has ever done, and never had this kind of experience. It reminded me of those optional boss fights found in certain JPRPG's, for the hard-core types only. I know I could try it on "Normal", but at this point, my heart's not into doing it again a 3rd time. I'll just take the suboptimal ending (rebelled to a point but accepted a lowly post rather than openly challenging Redbeard) and be done w/ it.

(*) My guess is a large proportion of those who succeeded at this are regular posters on these boards. That is, not a true demographic for the silent majority that play these games.

Finally, you might not have beaten him either. His attacks, and those of his Soul Jars, seemed to get stronger as he got down to the lowest health levels. It was a war of attrition & resources I just couldn't deal w/. I think it was unfair for Jeff to gimp the Shamans (and I had 2) against the Soul Jars.

Well, there's a couple hours of my life that I'll never get back. I still lost, even w/ 5 characters, though I had him at pretty low health. That was so incredibly frustrating that I'm not sure I'm up to try it again.

 

Had I designed this game, I would have made 2 changes to that final fight. One, a reward from beating Zephyrine that directly helped me in the fight against Redbeard. Two, in a similar vein, for siding w/ the rebels, Heart Miranda would have disabled 1 of the 4 soul pillar platforms, so at most I'd be dealing w/ 3 of them, instead of 4. Trying to take out Redbeard shouldn't be so demoralizing that it ruins the game for you.

 

Also, the way the meeting w/ the 4 NPCs is done, most people would never guess they could use them all--when that was impossible for the full game. That needs to be waaay clearer!

Um. I just got my ass kicked on Hard w/ a Shaman + Sevelin + Nathalie. I'm really hoping this is true, about getting to use all 4 other characters! Though I'm afraid that Shima & Jenell aren't equipped too well...

If this isn't true, I'm not sure I'm up for another try at this fight. For a game that wants to push you to fight Redbeard, it sure seems like a near impossibility to accomplish that. I'll sleep on it and try again tomorrow.

I had posted a thanks and other comments earlier, but the boards ate my post.

 

Shorter version. Thanks for the comments/answers. If I play through again, I'll make sure to attempt those optional boss fights.

 

Randomizer: 1 of those 2 remaining "quest" chests would take about 15 keys w/ lockpick maxed out at 5. No way I'm wasting that many keys on one chest. I think Jeff should remove it from the game since he decided not to use it in a quest.

 

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought the cleave function was off.

Just finished this tonight. This is a rambling post b/c I'm exhausted, so pardon the formatting...

 

First SW game I've ever played on Hard. Mainly b/c I was worried from Jeff's blog that he was going to make the game easier than previous games. The difficulty definitely ramped up nicely before long!

 

Lots to like/love in this game, w/ some minor criticisms/suggestions.

 

Pros:

Lively new game world to play in.

Liked the PCs/NPCs.

Plot twists galore.

Rarely a sense of the right/wrong or good/evil dichotomy found in more simplistic RPGs.

Love the skill tree concept in general; had a hard time distinguishing between what skills to take in earlier games.

Nice variety of locales visited.

Better inventory management!

Liked the auto-heal function after all.

Medals are fun (good luck w/ Steam Jeff!).

Boss fights are a ton of fun, even if you get stomped the 1st time or two. Already dying for the sequel.

Runestone enchantments.

New & improved art.

Scarabs!

 

Cons:

Not much to say here beyond some minor nitpicks.

 

Would have liked a few more skill points if stuck w/ a hard level cap. Is it even possible to max out a 4th tier ability?

The cleave function was wonky. Foes that would miss me b/c of my high defenses in a 1-on-1 fight would almost invariably hit that same character w/ a cleave. Also, I found it weird that a character 2 spaces away would be subject to a cleave, instead of just 1 space.

Random items. If a character cannot use it (armor/weapon) or sell it (quest or otherwise), don't bother making it collectible (e.g., bags of meal, bars of iron) in the 1st place.

Quests: would like dead quests to drop off (e.g., gave a certain totem to A instead of B...but quest remained).

Zhethron's quest reward chests: I did everything he asked and he only opened 2 of 4 (3 of 5??) for me; even when his helper said he'd open another.

Reusing the same sprites over and over. Only really bothered me when Redbeard's sprite was used for other bosses.

Didn't like entering a map at only 1 location, regardless of where I left the map.

Enchanted items should be worth more when you sell them.

 

A few questions unresolved:

Does playing on Hard difficulty result in any in-game benefits beyond modest bragging rights and a Medal post-game?

Do the flaming sword and corrupted/acid halberd inflict fire & acid damage or just protect against those elements?

Is B- the toughest fight in the game? I fought everything except B-, Z- (frosty), and Redbeard. I tried B- at 23rd level and quickly realized he was way beyond me. W/ only 30 levels, and playing on Hard (got to get that medal!), I'm afraid of what it would take to beat him.

 

Ok, time for some badly needed sleep. Thanks to Jeff for another great game.

 

Edited: few things I forgot about.

So much for the late afternoon weekend release at the end of the month. I was really looking forward to diving into this game this weekend. Ah well, maybe next weekend.

(Reads Niemand's insightful reply. Lightbulb goes off at last.)

 

(Mind blown).

 

Now I get it! But I'll wait for the official announcement as you suggest, out of courtesy to Jeff's servers being hammered.

In theory I know what you mean, but in practice...not so much. I guess my Mac skills aren't what I thought they were. Anyway, I appreciate the response. I'll continue to just check back here. I'm sure this thread will explode once it's out for all to see.

How do players know to get it from the servers before it's announced??

Anyway, I've been waiting patiently for the last year for this game, and now it's the weekend, and I'm dying to get it and get started! I guess I'll just check the main page and this forum thread repeatedly this weekend.

Agreed. I shouldn't have characterized the unreachable switch as "in" the Lair of the Scourge; but it was close by to the west.

Hmm, the obvious escaped me. Tool Use. But the other switch I believe was confirmed in another thread as being unreachable (it's the one in the area where you fight all the eyebeasts & gazers, before approaching the dying Nephil warrior).

This was the 1st Avernum game where I tried to play through w/ no traits (and thus no exp penalties). 3 humans & a slith. The humans were I think 48th level by the end of the game; the slith a few levels behind.

There is a switch in the Lair of the Scourge that I was unable to use. Two in fact. One you can see and can't reach, the other--while fighting through the Slith Defenders on the tiered terraces--you can touch but not activate. I had 18 Nature Lore w/ items included, and still got: "You think there is a concealed control here, but you can't figure out how to get it to work."

 

If both were indeed decoys, I found them annoying as such.