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Sharp_one

Dissapointment

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I just downloaded Nethergate: Ressurection demo, and I'm in big dissapointment. Of course I was certain that it will be a lot like the previous N,like the story, system and such, but I wasn't expectiong exactly the same game only with better graphics and higher resolutions.

Its like Spiderweb guys had implemented only new textures, and forgotten that they made other games with some improvements since first Nethergate.

First of all in Avernum 3 there was an intro, why they didn't made one for N:R? Instead we have exactly the same picture as years ago. Come on guys WTH?

Creation of characters also wasn't improved. In Ave series I can select from various premade classes like soldier or archer and also custom which gives me clean sheet of character with points to spare. But in N:R i need to manually minimalize all the stats for every character if I want to make diffrent char from the predefined ones.

And on top of that we once again have the same pictures for characters and skills also as in original N. Can't you guys really make a few new ones?

I started to play and wanted to look at something and I pressed RMB and it didnt worked! Come on you implemented this feature so long ago and now you going back to clicking the look button then at the thing I want to look? It was small improvement but improvement nonetheless. Now its going backward.

I remember that engine for N was really rough and walking around was horrible. But since Neth Spiderweb made a few games in which walking was smooth, now I again have the feeling that chars are walking in mud. Is this the same engine or what?

I have a feeling that Spiderweb did nothing absolutley nothing but changed the grapihcs and add some in game scenes in N:R. I deffinitly won't pay again for the same game that lacks improvements.

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Well your gong to get shot down anyway, so I might as well start things off (Allthough given how much I ramble I'll probably end up being about post 5 anyway :p ).

 

Firstly, it is seldom wise when playing to free demo to attack the game creator and call him "lazy" because it doesn't measure up to your exacting standards.

The lack of an intro? Who cares? (I am aware that evidently you care). The inclusion of the original graphics and whatnot helped keep things loyal to the original game, and lets be honest, spiderweb games can't exactly produce breathtaking cut scenes, so your not missing much with an opening; the writing has always been the charm to these games.

 

Yes, an option to have the characters start with blank stats would have been nice, since I'm sure 90% or players will reduce everything to 1 anyway, but all your being cost is about 90 seconds of your life lowering them down, i hardly thing it's a major issue.

 

Now to be fair, I do agree with you on your last two complaints, and was actually coming to the board to record my disappointment about them as well (all be it in a more eloquent and respectful manner). The characters do seem to move horribly, which I find hard to understand since I was under the impression that the game was made using an udated version of the BoA engine. I actually resorted for the first time to using the number pad for movement, since navigating the world map with the mouse is so clumsy and frustrating.

 

Similarly, the lack of functionality of the RMB did frustrate me early on, although it's only a very minor change to get used to tapping the 'l' key instead.

 

The game does also have a number of pros in my eyes, although being clunky it's still far more playable than the original, graphically its nicer (although I find some of the newer sprites such as the dark wolf look horribly out of place) and the convocation are actually tolerable this time.

 

Now to close, I'm not trying to say its wrong for you to feel disappointed, I am as well and probably wont be buying this title, but try to express that disappointment in a polite and constructive way, rather that rudely insulting the work Mr. Vogal has put into it.

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Well, yeah.

 

Nethergate: Resurrection isn't a rewrite of the same magnitude that Avernum was. From what I understand, better graphics and higher resolution (not to mention being able to play on newer systems) were the main features of the rewrite. Apparently, there are new dungeons, but having only played the demo for the original, I wouldn't know.

 

Your suggested features (cutscenes, character selection, etc.) are great, but they would have had to be requested before the Mac release. By the time the Windows beta testers get it, they're just fixing the porting bugs. frown

 

And this is the second time today someone pointed out the lack of looking with a right mouse click. I never, ever, realized you could do this in a Spidweb game. When did this happen? Is it not documented because right-clicking doesn't apply to Macs?

 

--------------------

Over the piano was printed a notice: Please do not shoot the pianist. He is doing his best.

- Oscar Wilde

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I, for one, would have been upset if the opening graphics and music had not been retained. This is a reworking of NG for more modern systems, not a sequel or reinterpretation. I want it to retain much of its old charm, while looking better and playing well.

 

N:R does have two very wicked new dungeons.

 

If you don't like some of the newer sprites, download Tyranicus' handy original sprites file found through the NG forum main page header. You get the original goofy yellow goblins and all.

 

I believe Jeff didn't make it easier to create custom characters at the beginning, because it would have been a lot of extra work. It's a small inconvenience to have to manually zero or adjust the default stats, but it's not that bad now really, is it?

 

I think Jeff did a worthy job with the tools on hand reasonably, for a cheap upgrade for those who once bought the original game.

 

-S-

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You'll notice that N:R is dirt cheap if you already have Nethergate. You get what you pay for: an upgrade that's more than a patch and less than a rewrite.

 

—Alorael, who would have paid the full price for the game just to play Nethergate on OS X. Access to the scripts is a bonus. So are the new dungeons. Even the balance tweaking is really just gravy.

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Ok maybe it is cheap but the "upgrade" isn't worth it. Well call me spoiled but I really dont like going backwards. If smtg is improved i.e char creation, or the RMB or even char movement I wont play smtg that is regresion. My first Avernum game was part 2 and I never played 1 becouse of lack of some small things like quest journal.

Even if I would like to refresh my memory of good story in Nethergate i wont play it becaouse the rough movement, looking and such and since Resurection wont make gameplay more comfortable like in other Spiderweb new games than sorry ill pass.

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All of Jeff's time went into upgrading the plot and adding new features that weren't in the old game. Two new expert level dungeons, new quests, and trainers for learning skills. New items and a few new monsters to make it interesting.

 

The interface isn't that bad and was taken from Blades of Avernum. This will be the last game to use it and was done to save time.

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I like BoA, and as such I was fine with the interface for Nethergate. Story was fantastic, and gameplay was exciting and varied. I haven't played the original so I can't attest to the differences in the two versions. Having played A4, G4, I can understand your concerns in "taking a step back".

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Netehrgate: Resurrection has considerable improvements from the old game. New dungeons. New quests. Redone dialogue. Better interface and larger screen resolution.

 

For people who have played Nethergate, I think there is more than enough new stuff to justify the $12 upgrade.

 

But here's the thing. It's Nethergate! Of course I didn't majorly change everything! Fans of Nethergate don't want an all new game. They want Nethergate! If I had changed too much stuff, I would have people at my door with torches and pitchforks.

 

As for the interface, I've been hearing people clamoring for more games with this interface for years. This will be the last game ever with the Nethergate/Blades of Avernum (basically the same) interface.

 

Going through and massively redoing the game was something that was never ever going to happen. The game is already good. That's why I re-released it.

 

- Jeff Vogel

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I think my major "complaint"? was the sloppy movement, it was disjointed and stopped for no reason all the time. I eventually resorted to using the arrows as well, which I've never felt the need to before in any of the former games with this interface. I liked the RMB clicker too but as I said. Sloppy movement.

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Don't get me wrong, I love the BoA interface; I prefer it a great deal for this genera of title to the geneforge interface.

 

But if, as was said in the latist RPGWatch interview, what was used to produce the title was a 'polished' version of the BoA interface, I wind myself wondering why the movement was so much less flowing than BoA or Avernum 3, and why staple features such as my beloving right mouce button (with the exception of the horses in A3 the best thing ever added to a spiderweb game) are missing.

 

In other news, regardless of my complaints I think I'll be buying this anyway; my Celt/Kelt singleton just got tormented by those hags (can I say hag on the internet?), and I think I'll shell ot te cash jsust to be able to play long enough to make them die an unpleasant death (It's a long tie since nethergate, I do get to do this right?).

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Heh heh heh. Another one gets sucked in against his own protest.

 

Has anyone else been having this "movement problem"?

 

-S-

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My stance is 'I'll pay for it, but I won't be happy about doing so' :p

 

And jst to claify on these movement problems, the issue is that, when using the mouse, you charicter will stop moving whenever the cursor isn't stationary, meaning a small and ighly annoying pause whenever you try to change direction. Not a big problem when navigating dungeons, bt hugely anoyng when trying to navigate densely forested areas of the world map.

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EDIT: Nevermind.

 

--------------------

Most modern calendars mar the sweet simplicity of our lives by reminding us that each day that passes is the anniversary of some perfectly uninteresting event.

- Oscar Wilde

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Quote:
Originally written by Synergy:

Has anyone else been having this "movement problem"?
Yes. It seems like everyone has this problem. This is really frustrating for me because I hate using the keyboard for Avernum and Geneforge. Moving with the mouse in N:R makes me dizzy.

And the RMB look thing might just have been an oversight. Is there an easy way to fix this?

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I have started a separate thread for comments/questions on Nethergate. That will be the thread I read and respond to in future.

 

- Jeff Vogel

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