Completing tormet without dying

[Abhishek]

Hmmm

I have already completed hard without dying and it was a lot of fun because you feel like a real battle where there is no next chance.

Beleive me it really increased my heart beat many times because if i die i cant reload and now i am planning the same thing for tormet.

If i can do hard i can do tormet too.

May be after dying once but thats exceptable.

Before i start such crazy works i want some suggestion and i want to know that do anyone tried it before me?

(i think its not so easy but at least dont shake my confidence before even i start)

I am saying to complete it without cheats

 

[Toby-Linn]

Here's a topic regarding a single character on torment difficulty, maybe it might help you.

 

http://www.ironycentral.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=151643

[Abhishek]

I recently edited that i dont want to cheat so i dont think that this topic will work,also i have already seen that topic.

And remember that i dont want to reload.

Thanks for quick response

[Slawbug]

Torment with no reloads will be very difficult, especially if you intend to complete every single part of every single area.

[Student of Trinity]

Torment without dying, but with a full party of 4, right? That might not be so impossible, though it will probably be hard, if you want to do everything.

 

Torment singleton without dying, now that's really hard. Torment singleton with quite a bit of saveloading has been done a couple of times without any cheating, and (which I think is more fun) with mild cheating (specifically, editing up Lore skills so that you don't have to miss too much stuff just because you don't get to add the entire party's Lores together to see if you understand a tome or spot a buried treasure).

 

 

[Abhishek]

Yes but i have strategies in my mind.

I played with a bit different party.

 

Slith:elite warrior,natural mage.(giving him all wisdom crystal and knowledge potions,)

Nephil archer:good const.,nimble finger.

 

Priest.(simple priest wid pure spirit.)

 

Nephil mage(natural mage)

and in this way it was not so easy you know but it was not impossible too.

I have done it in hard.

My mage slith was incredible and experiment really worked i tried to make him too much powerful so that he can run away to town.

And there are many tough battle where you can harm your foe, run to town and resume the battle.

And in late game hide your priest in corner and cast return life again and again.

 

Examples:

1:ogre thwacking(shankar)

2:pit crawler.

3:stealth test.

4:whirling thrasher.

5:master of the pit(just try return life and he was a peace of cake)

6:hraithe lord(hide ur priest and keep casting return life.)

7:goro's ogre and giant

i do these fights making visit to towns and so i made it without dying.

 

But yes there were still some battle in which i want help before i try it.

1:Haakai(i want to kill him)

2:final trial(its a real risk here i cant go to town,cant cast return life and its too much risky i think this is the place where i will die.

(ok not i but my PC's)

please solve this battle and then i will start it.

I think no one tried it b4 but still i will do it for complete satisfaction of my victory.

And i will not disappear after taking tips i will be here sharing my adventures and telling that my pc died or not and if i die second time i will tell it to every one fairly

 

[Randomizer]

It might be possible to avoid total party kills if you know how to do the fights and are patient.

 

Haakai - it's hard because the first round damage underground could kill the party before you can reach the first soul along the edge to shield the party. Plus you have to keep moving to reach the next before it's shield expires.

 

Final trial in Lake of Trials - This is easy if you summon shades and always stay south of your shades. The fear spell doesn't affect them and you can do this even as a tormented singleton.

 

Hraithe Lord can be done by going into the north narrow passage and sending summoned creatures to keep it pinned down and sucking up damage.

 

The other fights involve some luck to get through them.

[Abhishek]

Make it more clear randomizer.

Last time i was to much sacred from haakai and i never tried to kill his imps do the souls give any boon?

What it does?

 

Also why to stay in south in final trial when demon appears toward north?

Do you ever tried it yourself?

I will start this game on 27 april before that i will just keep thinking about strategies and any possibly tough fight

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Abhi

Slith:elite warrior,natural mage.(giving him all wisdom crystal and knowledge potions,)

My mage slith was incredible and experiment really worked i tried to make him too much powerful so that he can run away to town.

This is an unusual choice to say the least. I take it that your slith was just a mage who had the Elite Warrior trait (which I've always thought was a great idea) and not actually a warrior/mage, which would be a huge waste of skill points?

[Abhishek]

Yes i know the normal play.I know the safest party.And thats y i said that it was an experiment which worked.

Because:

you cant die.

So you need a person on whom you can believe that yes he has the most chance of survival so what you will do?You will try to make him strongest among all 4

obviously giving him all WCrystal and K.Potion.And i think that for this mage and warrior hybrid is the best option.I am using mobile for net and my pc is off so i am giving his stats in azure gallery by my memory b4 lake of trials,soultaker pit,killing ghaakh

this is the stat which i clearly remember.

Note:i dont cheated

 

str:10(+4 ceremonial leggings i dont remember other bonus of leggings )

 

 

end:7(+2 girdle of life)

 

 

dex(7 may be other bonus)

 

int 4

 

pole 12

melee 6

 

bows:4(3 dixon)

 

thrown:3(khora vyss+dixon)

 

qs:8(+1 lark)

 

mage 9(trait bonus+talisman from howling depths+trained)

 

priest0

 

spellcraft 5(3shankar+1lark)

 

hardiness 4

 

defense 6

 

tu 0

 

luck:0

 

 

qs:1

 

blademaster:9

parry:14

magery:3

me:4

resist:4

pathfinder:3

anatomy:5

riposte:1(lark)

lethal blow:4

 

if i slip anything then forgive me i write it with my memory and except ceremonial leg.

Everything is correct

[Slawbug]

If you just want to make one character with the highest chance of surviving, BUT you also have 3 other characters, then he doesn't have to adept with every single attack form.

 

Regardless, not having Divinely Touched is crazy. Talk about survivability -- it gives free 20% armor, in addition to the amazing bonuses to Blademaster, Sharpshooter, and Magery.

[Abhishek]

No not so crazy.Think again it gives 20%to armor i dont need it why

Bcoz

1:he is a warrior mage and you cant have more than 2 traits

2:i dont want arcane blow from him.Just fireblast so he is basically a warrior.

3:17 points of parry is enough to neglect 20%armor.

4:he is a mage and thus has great distant attack so what will i do with sharpshooter instead magic is better choice for distant attack.

5:to use any trait you need to change level and i thought that he wont became able to change so many level that i can overcome xp penalty

[Slawbug]

Divinely Touched increases your magic power more than Natural Mage does, and it also increases your melee skill.

[Alorael at Large]

I still don't understand the benefits of mixing mage and fighter. If you want to optimize his ability to kill, you're better off with only one of the two. If you want to optimize his ability to not die, you still don't really need anything more than good armor, Endurance, and other defensive skills. Elite Warrior helps a little bit, but Divinely Touched helps more.

 

—Alorael, who also isn't sure how essential a single super-character is. It comes at the expense of party balance and the development of other characters. Wouldn't you be better off making a standard party and simply fleeing with whichever character is still standing when things start turning against you? Running away is the best defense, and no character type is better at running.

[Slawbug]

Also: Good Constitution and Nimble Fingers? Do what you want, but you clearly aren't making optimal choices.

[Abhishek]

And armor?

Firstly he is a warrior and then a mage.

So armor is more important.

Which divinely touched do not gives.

And i have not started the game just asking for suggestions before i do so.

If you can still prove yourself and others say the same then i will definitely go 4 it.

Tell me do you take divinely touched yourself?

I have already posted some fights above if you have any idea help me in that too.

[Abhishek]

Good const and nimble finger for archer.

Actually i really need help for that.

I choosed gc bcoz archer died too quickly but if someone is sure that sharpshooter is better then i will definitely try it.

Thanks for pointing it out

[Dikiyoba]

Originally Posted By: Abhi

So armor is more important.
Which divinely touched do not gives.

Slarty just said it gives you 20% armor.

Dikiyoba.

[Abhishek]

Uh i was saying about the amount of armor which you can wear before you get encumbered to cast a mage spell.Bcoz wearing equipments lets you decide which resistance you actually want.

I choosed good const also after calculation.And i feel that it was very cheap.

+3 to hardiness apparently and then more +2% armor and +1% to poision and acid(excludin the bonus from apparent hardiness).Good seeing its xp penalty.

[Abhishek]

It seems a joke but i dont died at all so i think i have better experience of running away :-) so adrenaline rush is too much helpful for running away

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Abhi

Make it more clear randomizer.
Last time i was to much sacred from haakai and i never tried to kill his imps do the souls give any boon?
What it does?

The imps are souls that will shield the party for a few rounds from most of the haakai's damage after you touch one. But it only lasts for 2 or 3 rounds so you need to constantly move to the next one. I never tried to kill it, but it's been done and he drops a nice Jade Halbred. I prefer to maximize Melachion's Rewards.

Quote:

Also why to stay in south in final trial when demon appears toward north?
Do you ever tried it yourself?
I will start this game on 27 april before that i will just keep thinking about strategies and any possibly tough fight

The final trial in the center of the Lake of Trials doesn't require you to attack the demon on the north side of the island. Attacking and destroying the two golem creatures on the east and west side will damage the north demon. I've done it twice in torment as a singleton (mage and Anama) and once with a normal party and once with an Anama party of 4. It's just about staying buffed and piling on damage.

I also did the Hraite Lord by piling all the energy resistant armor on the highest health party member and using him to pin the Hraite Lord while the others healed him and attacked. A bit harder to get right the first time.

[Abhishek]

Thanks.

I see what a burning topic its going on.

20 post within 6 hours.Really this topic is getting the same amount of response which i dreamed for.

Though i completed hard without dying but still will you guys share your end game party stats with comments

[Rowen]

I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet but, Welcome to the boards. Leave your sanity at the door and look out for the turtles; both fluffy and flying. Also, there is an edit option for posts that most on these boards use to add information to a their post if they are the last poster in a thread. This avoids double posts.

[Slawbug]

The XP penalties are almost meaningless given how XP is scaled in this game. Even with the worst penalty possible you only trail a no penalty PC by 2-4 levels, which amounts to 20 skill points at the end of the game -- and considering the gigantic value some of the traits are by then, that's a huge loss. (Expect +9 to Magery, Blademaster, and Sharpshooter, in addition to the 20% armor, from Divinely Touched. Elite Warrior provides about +6 to Blademaster and Parry plus a lot of extra carrying capacity. The Mage/Priest skills provide about +6 to spell skill and +3/+6 to Magical Efficiency; Natural Mage lets you cast mage spells in encumbering armor, but most encumbering armor is unnecessary anyway.)

 

Good Constitution does not add to Hardiness, it adds to resistances at I believe +6% each. Given that resistances are calculated by multiplication and not addition this is not very useful. Nimble Fingers adds up to +4 to Lockpicking, eventually. They are not worth the advantage slot.

 

Also, never use Humans. Nephils and Sliths both get equivalent points in weapon skills that help them earn combat proficiencies.

 

Abhi, I admire your courage in challenging Torment like this, but you don't know all of the game mechanics. Read some threads here and listen to the advice you will hear instead of claiming you know best.

[Alorael at Large]

Most traits are, in fact, useless. The best traits are the ones with the heaviest penalties because, as Slarty points out, the penalty is basically meaningless.

 

Divinely Touched is excellent for everyone. Elite Warrior is good for fighters, Sharpshooter is fairly good for archers but usually goes unused, and Natural Mage and Pure Spirit are solid but not amazing for casters.

 

You don't want humans. The general idea is to make a character a slith if there's good reason to, meaning the character will rely on polearms. Otherwise you want nephils for their archery abilities. Both races' bonuses give them battle disciplines faster, which means they're basically better at everything.

 

You do want to specialize. A fighter/mage suffers from lack of specialization: he won't be as good at fighting as a pure fighter, and he won't be as good at magic as a pure mage. It's not a bad idea to put weapons for a mage for more battle disciplines, but more than that isn't a good idea. You can mix melee and ranged fighting or mage and priest on one character because they share the same important stats, but don't try to combine a fighter with a caster unless you're running a singleton and you have no choice.

 

—Alorael, who will point out that the difficulty jump from Hard to Torment is very brutal. You can get by with some non-optimal choices on Hard. Doing so on Torment is, well, torment.

[Slawbug]

Sharpshooter is not as good simply because bow damage doesn't scale as fast as melee or magic damage. Elite Warrior is best for fighters but it's excellent for anyone, partly due to Parry and encumbrance but mainly due to Blademaster. High Blademaster lets you use battle proficiencies more frequently! IMHO, this is more useful than 6 points in Mage Spells, but that's just my opinion.

[Abhishek]

I dont know what to write.

If you say that tormet is much more difficult then i know it.

Hey,i have the game,u know,why i have this idea in my mind?

Being old to avernum series and being player who always play in tormet i tried it a lot even in my first playthrough though you can guess what happen later but yes,i know the exact pain of tormet.

If you say about combat mechanics then i only say that my warrior by the end game was usually landing a lethal blow hitting upto 250 damage with a lot of 2nd swings.150 damage by fireblast which was very helpful(all with battle frenzy).

However my dedicated mage highest was 482 damage with mighty blow and arcane blow.

I think thats enough to do all the fights.

And tool use.Eh,thats not my fault he was matt pasek who suggested this.

And i always thought that i am facing some difficulty in choosing traits.So,i think about myself that i know combat mechanics very good but yes i except that i have problem in traits.

And hey,i never claimed to be the best!

Advice.Thats why i am here,actually i make my last posts at 3am in india and i was eager to sleep thats why i except that i make some statements which i dont like myself.But,i hope that you wont mind it.

 

I easy question:where can i find the ogre infestetion,i missed it.Answer this and resume on traits.

 

[Randomizer]

The Tranquility ogre infestion is west of Solberg's Tower in a pit that opens up on the south side of the barrier.

 

It's best to use non-humans because for a party of 4 at level 24 (near end of Azure Gallery - beginning of Vahnatai Lands) - you have 5 levels of combat disciplines from race, you can buy up to 9 levels from Dixon the trainer in Tranquility, and 2 and 1/2 levels from books and Vahnatai trainer in Khera-bas. So there isn't much more you need from skill points and items to have 20 combat levels and be able to use all the battle disciplines.

 

The difference between humans and non-humans is only 2 to 4 levels for the same trait penalties at the end of the game. So you do better with the free skills than using skill points.

 

Slarty is right that because you get less experience as your level rises, there aren't enough skill points gained with levels to make up for the skills from traits. Plus you can get them sooner to help out your characters.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Changer, Changer, Enchaîné

Sharpshooter is not as good simply because bow damage doesn't scale as fast as melee or magic damage. Elite Warrior is best for fighters but it's excellent for anyone, partly due to Parry and encumbrance but mainly due to Blademaster. High Blademaster lets you use battle proficiencies more frequently! IMHO, this is more useful than 6 points in Mage Spells, but that's just my opinion.

Depends. A mage/priest hybrid will have serious difficulty keeping up with both kinds of spells without either NM or PS, to the point that it probably won't be able to get the best battle disciplines until near the end of the game, which defeats the purpose of taking Elite Warrior in the first place.

[Abhishek]

But here we were talking about mage warrior hybrid what you think about it thuryl?

Beware:when i started this topic i assumed that it will be inviting only those player who have played game at least once. If you have not played it once then please dont read any more i will write a lot of spoiler.

I think it is necessary for such topic.

 

about divinely touched:ok i asked for reasons and now i have changed my mind.

I will take it.Thanks for details.

 

Gladwell:once again i will not join him melchonian wish is more important for me as his boons are permanent though it come in late game but i just cant take orders from gladwell.

 

 

Luck:do it is still helpful and can save me at 0 HP?

If yes than i will try to have a char who will have 15 points in luck by the end game.

 

 

Ending:i will stay loyal.

 

 

 

These are plans not decision,before 27 if you think that i am wrong please tell me.

Actually i have to exam on 26 so i can play after that only

 

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Abhi

But here we were talking about mage warrior hybrid what you think about it thuryl?

Mage-warrior hybrids have pretty limited synergy. Both character builds require a significant skill point investment, they don't really share any required stats in common, and they require different tactics as well: warriors are all about getting right up in enemies' faces, while mages stay at a distance and blast stuff. Mage-archer hybrids are better: you can hang back and attack weak enemies with arrows without needing to invest in defensive skills to the extent that a melee fighter does, while saving your spells for more threatening targets.

Quote:

Luck:do it is still helpful and can save me at 0 HP?
If yes than i will try to have a char who will have 15 points in luck by the end game.

Luck isn't very good any more. You can safely ignore it.

[Alorael at Large]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Depends. A mage/priest hybrid will have serious difficulty keeping up with both kinds of spells without either NM or PS, to the point that it probably won't be able to get the best battle disciplines until near the end of the game, which defeats the purpose of taking Elite Warrior in the first place.

My heavy reliance on mage/priests explains why I'm always happier with Natural Mage than with Elite Warrior.

The real question is which is better overall. A dedicated mage with Elite Warrior definitely gives you more bang. Priests have much less need for disciplines, though. They're nice, especially when you can use Adrenaline Surge to cast multiple spells, but I'm not sure they're worth more than flexibility.

Then again, in hard fights my casters are often spending more time in priest mode than in mage mode. Maybe one EW/DT priest and one NM/DT mage/priest gives a good combination of flexibility when you absolutely need more healing and the ability to pump out damage if you use the priest to attack.

—Alorael, who actually gets the most battle discipline benefits from bow attacks. Not by utility, which is the better measure, but by sheer number. He likes to conserve energy and arrow plink with casters.

[Lilith]

The best use of Adrenaline Rush is to avoid combat entirely. I used it in the second half of the game to rush past battles that I just didn't feel like fighting, especially against boring trash monsters outdoors. To use it for that, though, you need it on your entire party, and how much Blademaster you have doesn't usually matter so much. Meeting that requirement by the time you reach the Howling Depths makes that section a lot easier.

[Abhishek]

And what will u say about priest warrior hybrid.

Actually i want to give all my knowledge potions to one character but i cant decide to whom?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Abhi

And what will u say about priest warrior hybrid.
Actually i want to give all my knowledge potions to one character but i cant decide to whom?

There are two ways to play a warrior/priest hybrid: it can either be a warrior who can use some priest spells, or a priest who can sort of hit things with melee weapons sometimes. The first build is okay: you can never have too many healers, and since your fighter is usually your fastest party member he's an obvious choice for curing mental effects on other characters. However, it might require you to pump some knowledge brews into that character to keep his defensive skills up to scratch. The second build has always seemed strange to me: what is your priest doing in melee in the first place? Archery is just as good a backup skill for a priest as it is for a mage, though.

If you can't decide who to give your Knowledge Brews to, give them to whoever's going to be investing in Tool Use. That'll offset the cost of investing in a skill that's necessary for adventuring but useless in combat. I split the brews about 2:1 between my tool-using fighter and my mage/priest.

[Abhishek]

But see my case thuryl i do the same what you do but this time i need to avoid total party killing so i need to have a such character who use all of them alone.

And yes i am planning for the same priest which you like.A warrior who will have some points in priest,may be to unlock divine fire by the end game

[Alorael at Large]

Once again, you seem to be focusing on making one character who will always manage to survive. That may work best, but my guess is that your survival odds are better if you optimize your whole party evenly. You don't want a singleton with hangers-on, you want balance. Granted, the total skill points of all the items in the game probably won't tip the balance, but it still seems to me that you're going about it wrong.

 

You don't need Divine Fire. The character is a fighter and should deal damage by fighting. The point of adding priest ability is to give yourself that extra flexibility: healing when you need it is especially important for not dying. The spells your warrior priest will use most, and maybe the only spells he'll use, are Minor Heal, Heal, Unshackle Mind, and Mass Healing. Curing and Mass Curing are possible but usually not urgent enough to waste a fighter's time.

 

—Alorael, who worries that a hybrid fighter on Torment will fall behind in his ability to kill things and not get killed. Casters can always hit and can reliably damage. They can stay way from combat, mostly. Fighters are necessary but much riskier, and you need to make sure they're built to survive the beatings they'll take.

[Lilith]

Yeah: most of the time, if you only have one character left alive, you should be running away -- in which case most of your skills don't matter much anyway, although it'd help to have some decent endurance, at least a little healing, and Adrenaline Rush early on.

[Abhishek]

I said for divine fire because in dorikas fort everyone knows riposte so i get annoyed when they ripostes the attack and they can parry smite.I know he will have about 150 spell points but by that time you know a lot of

first aid.That is the only reason if you have better option tell of

it.

I know i am free to do whatever i want but i want to see what other thinks.

The safest party.....

No need to tell about it.I already know about it after all i am going to except a huge challenge so it is self explaining that i can play well and complete the game but this time fight is a bit different and thats why i would like to do something different with my party too.

 

 

 

[Slawbug]

What Alorael and Thuryl just said is key.

 

Also, you may want to try playing on Torment before you say anything else. Everything has CRAPLOADS of hit points, so it is rarely feasible to just blast everything with area effect spells.

 

Look, you are trying an extremely difficult challenge. Torment is hard enough, but permadeath on top of that, phew. Do things how you want, but if you choose sub-optimal builds, expect to hear "I told you so."

[Abhishek]

Thats ends it ok i will back at forums on 27 after exams with telling what i choosed and what i dont.

Hope to see a lot of reply till then.

And truly speaking your post doubled my eagerness to start

i think you were right about divinely touched.

One last thing:what you think about creating an archer who knows thrown and not bows assume that i will steal nephil warblade to get +4 to strength so that he can carry it.

I will come just to see answer of this

 

if u think that encumbrance and less availability are the only problem then dont worry i have already tried it for mage and i was succesful but if you have to say anything else for thrown you are welcome.

Also for my experiment i will say that i will not do changes which can be said as plain foolishness just slight changes from regular party.

See you later

.

 

[Alorael at Large]

If you want your fighter to have an alternative to melee, I absolutely agree. That alternative should be bows (or thrown weapons), though, not magic! Physical skills gives you synergy on your stats and keep stacking for disciplines. Trying to make a fighter who is also a good enough priest to have useful Divine Fire is a losing proposition.

 

Thrown weapons are fairly good. By the end of the game you'll be finding bows much more powerful than anything you can throw, but in the beginning throwing weapons are probably stronger. The biggest issue is just hassle: I hate having to keep track of how many javelins or razordisks I have and get more when I'm running low. Bows are much more convenient. Whichever one you go with, though, the character definitely should be a nephil for the huge skill bonuses.

 

—Alorael, who agrees with Slarty's suggestion. Play even a little bit on Torment before deciding on your party. The game is much different when nothing ever misses you, everything has absurdly high health, and doing damage quickly is less valuable than doing damage reliably and not getting killed in the meantime. A5 does not play well with glass cannons.

[Abhishek]

Your post forced me to reply.

The reason was simple.I understand what you mean by "bows are powerful by the end game" its heartstriker of course which you actually think for.

But now i am feeling a bit confused by your post

reason:actually the damage calculation i know so far says that

heartstriker:8-32

means:d4 damage.8 and 32 just stand for more probability of hitting.May be i am wrong because i never knock my head much for damaging and what i know was working and if i am right then razordisc and fine razordisc both gives d5 just with different chance of hitting(which is not trouble for dedicated character).So how is bow more powerful.

And you say you hate keep tracking...ok but the crazy work i am trying will need such extra effort.

Kindly tell me that am i wrong about damage calculation?

 

And warrior priest?

In the beginning i will give him just pole and nothing else.He will be a great warrior but with low riposte skill.After about 4 point in riposte i will not invest there further and i will see a priest in him only when i reach thalon of the 10 eyes and then invest some saved skill points but divine fire...I do not meant that you will definitely see it.I mean that it is the last skill he will ever unlock and in actual i will stop before that,may be at major heal.What i write was a case of overflow of skill point.

 

[Alorael at Large]

I don't have A5 handy, but are you sure you have the stats right on Heartstriker? I think it's substantially more powerful than that. It had a higher multiplier and a higher base than any other weapon in A4. I recall it being toned down in A5, but I doubt it was altered that much! You also definitely have something wrong, because the damage on a weapon doesn't tell you about hit probability.

 

If things haven't changed much since A4, and I don't think they have, then the formulas are Slartanalyzed here. Razordisks and javelins are indeed better than bows, but only if you can keep enough of them. Javelins you probably can, but razordisks aren't terribly common and you don't want to spend gold on ammunition. I didn't collect disks while playing so I'm not sure exactly how the numbers work, but it's a concern.

 

All that said, if you're willing to manage your throwing weapons then it will probably work fine. Go for it.

 

—Alorael, who thinks another possible concern is the fact that you can get bows with very nice non-damage bonuses. Stunning and acid are both helpful, as are a few stat bonuses. Throwing weapons are just thrown for damage.

[Abhishek]

Since you asked:if god is not cheating me then i am sure about whatever i write for heartstriker

About acid arrows and submission arrows:i dont know about others but when i complete my game no matter which part i have a HUGE bunch of scrolls and wands remaining so i will use it this time to make up for arrows bonus and note that it also cost lesser AP.

 

 

 

[Slawbug]

The Heartstriker was indeed lowered to d4, it was quite sad. 8 and 32 don't just affect to-hit though, those 8 bonus levels (or however many there are) affect damage as well.

[Abhishek]

Leisure time.(You cant study 24 hour after all)

So I sit designed party.

And you will see that despite saying always about personal strategies i have make a lot of change seeing the post of all who were there to help me.

At least party is needed be4 you start.

So i think this is not a useless post.

 

 

1:slith soldier.(pole)

trait:1elite warrior.

2:cant decide.

 

2:nephil thrown(custom)

trait:nimble finger

sharp shooter

 

 

3:nephil/human (feeling confused.) priest custom

pure spirit

good constitution(not satisfied though)

 

 

Nephil mage: custom

divinely touched

natural mage

 

 

this start the nasty fight.I am feeling like an adventurer, may be i die in halfway or may be i made it,

may be this topic linked to strategy central or may be it become a useless thread.

I dont know the future but i promise that if i die i will never lie.

If you want to see experiment see it in my 2nd char for more you will have to wait till i dont reach muck to see that do i have point to do so.

There is lot to reply on my party building and i am waiting for it

if you dont know what to say then just tell about those things which i leaved blank.

[Slawbug]

Choosing traits like Nimble Fingers, Sharpshooter or Good Constitution over Divinely Touched is completely foolish. Also, taking a Human over a Nephil (or Slith) makes no sense whatsoever.

 

For most of the other points we have disagreed on, there is room for debate. But the two points above are indisputable.

 

We've provided plenty of explanations and links to further explanations. So, which of the following is correct?

 

1) You dispute the accuracy of the above two assertions.

 

2) You are intentionally choosing a sub-optimal build.

[Abhishek]

Oh dear.

I just wanted to listen about 2nd thing.

I said i was confused, ok this will be quickly changed.He will not be a human.

And the first one...You are looking some what angry dear. I said that i am not satisfied with good const myself.Actually i hesistate to give divinely touched to two members of party. That was the only reason.

And nimble fingers:i said it was not my fault he was Matt Pasek(he writes reason for it),still if u are sure that nimble finger is not good tell me.

Sharp shooter:if i dont take it for archer then what will i take?

Its not contrary statement i really cant understand any trait for him.And note that thuryl says that it depends.

You tell nothing about 2nd trait for warrior.Giving divinely touched to 3 members?! Oh please.Why dont you choose any alternate if you can do so.

 

You just posted those things which i mark with a comment myself.

This proves that i was already thinking that i will face such question.

[Alorael at Large]

1. Give him Divinely Touched. You have an empty slot and it's a very good trait. I'd also recommend against using the soldier premade class. It's not terrible, but you can allocate points better yourself with custom.

 

2. Deadeye is okay; it's not ideal, but it's probably fine for an entirely ranged character. Nimble Finges gives you a tiny bonus to Tool Use and is simply not worth the trait slot. Matt Pasek makes good walkthroughs, but he is not a character optimizer. Once again, fill in the gap with Divinely Touched.

 

3. Nephil, and not Good Constitution. That trait is meant for front liners more than anyone else and its benefits are tiny. Guess what I'm going to recommend! Hint: it's Divinely Touched again.

 

4. No arguments.

 

—Alorael, who isn't sure what is so difficult about the suggestion to use Divinely Touched early and often. It gives you the most substantial bonuses, and it helps everyone who will be using ranged weapons (everyone), everyone who will be in melee (only one character?), everyone who will use disciplines (everyone), and casters (two). And it's free armor! The experience cost doesn't matter, so you're just weighing it against other traits. Most traits simply aren't good; even with no experience penalty you would barely notice a difference in your character whether you had them or you didn't. Elite Warrior, Natural Mage, Pure Spirit, Divinely Touched, and to a lesser extent Deadeye are the key traits. Strong Will is okay, but only if you anticipate not being able to rely on Unshackle Mind (as with a singleton).