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Foumantoo Foumantoo

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 01:44 PM #36 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Hello again,
I have been using a Sword and Shield early until I could improve my dual wielding skill. I have tried to equip some swords and having a bit of confusion:
When I equip a Broadsword or Waveblade, I can only use a shortblade or dagger in offhand-no problem except I sold a bunch of them...how can I tell what blades go where? I don't see a descriptor but it makes sense that a big and a little etc. Just want to know how to figure the combination for the future. I guess I shoulda played around a bit with equipping earlier eh?

Thanks

Randomizer Randomizer

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 02:57 PM #37 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Sword weight is one indication, but some named blades can be used for the second (lighter) sword. It's mostly trial and error, but you will be able to find more blades lying around.
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Posted 19 February 2017 - 03:38 PM #38 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

As you've figured out, it's mainly just shortblades.  Some of the more unusual magical weapons are more ambiguously named, so give them a try.
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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:47 PM #39 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

you can use for example flaming/ice/oozing sword and assassin falchion and if you have 2nd fighter then vampiric knife/singing rapier/radiant shortblade and 1 of those "big" swords 1st doesn't use (once you get those).

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:17 AM #40 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Hi Again,
My characters are around level 17-18, I'm having fun but as always a bit confused. Basically I have been doing side quests in any area that I can handle for my area. I have access to areas as barriers are down, and am sorta wandering....I know I should go to Castle for the Magi Clearance (I guess).

I know there isn't really a "walkthrough" and I don't expect one, just want to make sure I have the right idea. I realize it's also the point of the game to discovery stuff, just want to make sure there is no glaring stupidity going on. Lots of choices for buying things though and not sure how not to waste money. I have mainly spent money on spells/rituals for offense and survival, not really on like Cave Lore etc.

I am however thoroughly confused on the application of Arcane Lore with Sage Lore and Vahnatai Lore etc.I realize there has been much discussion on this and not sure if I'm really clear on it. See below an excerpt from the "Second Look after balance updates" thread.

I'm not sure if I should take Sage Lore, if I should take it for all characters, if I should take multiple levels of it, whether I should take VL or not (4 opportunities to do so), if I should ignore that because there are certain things it doesn't count as AL for (so whats the point) or Ignore SL and VL to get 13 straight points in AL to get some sort of Resistance Buff (I think).

I also am seeing the original "Second look at Updates" advice (Slarti I'm guessing is the Demon of Good Taste?) and thinking I should maybe replay at a Hard level with all casters get. The Dual sword guy is fun but even just having Icy Rain and Priest Divine Fire blows any melee out the window.

I guess I am the type of player who doesn't like to hope he gets the right skills-I like to explore etc but hate wishing I made different build choices and don't like using the editor, but will. I spend a lot of time reseaqrching my choices for games before I start them, unlike others who jump right in I guess.

Spoiler


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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:42 AM #41 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Please don't spam by posting the same thing in two different threads.  (Especially after somebody answers you twice in the other thread... just continue it there next time.)

As far as lore goes, the reason you don't find threads saying "do exactly this" is because there is more than one way to do it, and while they aren't all that different, they differ in whether the use more skill points, more traits, etc.

If you need a specific suggestion for what to do, Randomizer mentioned one already: go pure Arcane Lore for the bonus point of Resistance.  This is a good way to do things.

EDIT: This is now spread over 3 threads and 3 huge posts.  I'm adding spoiler tags in.  Please keep further discussion to this thread.  Thank you.
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Foumantoo Foumantoo

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:54 AM #42 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

So-After playing for a while and reading hundreds of posts for advice, let me know what you think...

This is one of the few actual laid out plans for a build that seemed to take advice from some of the veterans of the game. I have some questions at the end, feel free to post answers if you like. There are 3 pages of posts after Bonam made this one, which to a newb is a lot to process.

Spoiler

Questions from Fou:
-No Sage Lore? (still so confused on this one and VL)
-How do all these people get to 15 in weapon skills (to Reach Adrenaiine Rush) when they have 8 total? I realize you buy 2 points of weapon skills and there there are 2 items to wear/use (like a sword and gloves or something) to get to 15 to take Adrenaline Rush. However that would only account for one character to get to 15 right? What about the other three?
-Cave Lore? I see there isn't really a lot of fantastic gear to discover, but maybe on first timers get it to a certain number? 10 maybe on first timers?
-TU to 14? I see that you need TU to 11 for most items, 13 to escape a dragon or something, and 14 for final. One post says maybe 14 on initial run and 11 if you go again?

Perhaps the wily veterans could edit the actual build post when advising with comments at the end of the edit as editing the actual build itself is much easier to wrap a smaller brain around than reading pages of adjustment advice. I realize that I may be guilty of reviving many old questions scattered over dozens of posts from 2015-2016, but seeing as this is the most recent Avernum game, I know that new people will look for a post from a "Newcomer" just as I do, and maybe some of this will help.

I really like this game and have actually started playing EFTP to see differences. There is a lot of info etc on that game (not much in the way of maps though like CS)

Note: I realize there isn't a magic bullet for this, but looking through a more mature game such as EFTP there is much more

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:57 AM #43 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostAll Magic Comes with a Price, on 22 February 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

Please don't spam by posting the same thing in two different threads.  (Especially after somebody answers you twice in the other thread... just continue it there next time.)

As far as lore goes, the reason you don't find threads saying "do exactly this" is because there is more than one way to do it, and while they aren't all that different, they differ in whether the use more skill points, more traits, etc.

If you need a specific suggestion for what to do, Randomizer mentioned one already: go pure Arcane Lore for the bonus point of Resistance.  This is a good way to do things.

EDIT: This is now spread over 3 threads and 3 huge posts.  I'm adding spoiler tags in.  Please keep further discussion to this thread.  Thank you.
Sorry man wasn't meaning to spam-I actually was writing another post when you made this-really sorry wasn't trying to make a mess!

You are correct there is a LOT of info over a wide area, much of it older posts too.

I will keep my questions limited to this post sorry

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:04 AM #44 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Spoiler


Pliant Giant Pliant Giant

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:40 AM #45 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Look up at your post and you'll see what I meant by spoiler tags.  They can be used to hide revealing info but they can also just be used to keep posts neat and tidy.

To edit just hit the button that says "edit".  Try it on your post above and you can see what you have to type to make the spoiler box appear.
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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:50 AM #46 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostAll Magic Comes with a Price, on 22 February 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Look up at your post and you'll see what I meant by spoiler tags.  They can be used to hide revealing info but they can also just be used to keep posts neat and tidy.

To edit just hit the button that says "edit".  Try it on your post above and you can see what you have to type to make the spoiler box appear.
Y
Thanks-what I wanted to do was make make the Thread Subject Header read ***SPOILERS*** not actual posts. I'm unable to edit the Thread Header-maybe you can?

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:10 PM #47 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Hi,

I have been trying EFTP a bit while playing Crystal Souls. I am trying it on "hard" difficulty and there is a marked difference in getting stomped vs. not a big deal in some dungeons early. Does CS have the same ramp up in difficulty?

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Posted 23 February 2017 - 01:42 PM #48 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Jeff makes the Demo, early part, easier to lure in new gamers. It gets harder as you reach the next part and there are a few fights that you might not be able to do on hard difficulty that are barely winnable on normal difficulty.

Save often with different saves so you can go back later if it proves too hard.
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Posted 24 February 2017 - 12:26 PM #49 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

for example tower of magi and mertis areas have easy opponents and also tough opponents which you can't deal until later when party has gained more lvls. Avernum is 1 big open world and that means that player can easily put his/her nose to some place where it shouldn't be put until much later.

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 06:55 PM #50 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Is a Dual Wielding Fighter still recommended over a Shield/Pole user? I saw the Minus To Hit went from 20% in AEFTP to 35% in CS.

Lillith recommends against taking Sage Lore-is this mainly for Resistance Bonus AL 11/13 whatever gives, for the fact there are a few spells you can't get with Sage Lore?

Playing through on Normal doesn't seem to tax me much. In fact I hardly ever use my scrolls,potions etc except healing. I will bump it to Hard to see how it feels-I think a lot of this advice is for a bit more difficulty eh?

Slarti suggests getting Magi Clearance right after Demo area without going into another dungeon with though out questing and planning. Unfortunately I guess I will have to play through a few times to learn what those might be, or can someone maybe help with a SPOILER in this regard? I really like the game but come to the forums for hints. tips and Ah-ha stuff...

BTW-what exactly IS the demo area-like before chapter 2 or earlier?

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:17 PM #51 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostEarth Empires, on 24 February 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

for example tower of magi and mertis areas have easy opponents and also tough opponents which you can't deal until later when party has gained more lvls. Avernum is 1 big open world and that means that player can easily put his/her nose to some place where it shouldn't be put until much later.
I did notice that some places have a combination of easier and tougher battles. It sorta threw me off as I am used to "areas" in games where you should be or not be for your level. I just need to keep some notes on where to come back to. I am lazy with note taking, map making etc though. I try to find those kinds of answers by people who are more knowledgeable about a game than me (who aren't as lazy either)

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Posted 24 February 2017 - 07:42 PM #52 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostFoumantoo, on 24 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Is a Dual Wielding Fighter still recommended over a Shield/Pole user? I saw the Minus To Hit went from 20% in AEFTP to 35% in CS.
If you're trying to go for melee damage, yes.  There's no real reason to do that, but if you are DW is the way to go.
If not, I suppose you can go shield for tanking.  But tanks aren't really that great in A2CS either.

Quote

Slarti suggests getting Magi Clearance right after Demo area without going into another dungeon with though out questing and planning. Unfortunately I guess I will have to play through a few times to learn what those might be, or can someone maybe help with a SPOILER in this regard? I really like the game but come to the forums for hints. tips and Ah-ha stuff...
Technically I said it's possible, not that you truly need to do it.  But really, there's nothing to spoil here.  Just go around between towns (pretty safe to do if you stay on the main paths or use boats), pick up every quest you can, and do the ones that are find-this-item, find-this-person, etc.  There are quite a few of those.

However, I want to highlight one thing you said: "I will have to play... to learn".  We cannot script your entire playthrough for you.
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Posted 24 February 2017 - 09:28 PM #53 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostFoumantoo, on 24 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Is a Dual Wielding Fighter still recommended over a Shield/Pole user? I saw the Minus To Hit went from 20% in AEFTP to 35% in CS.

Lillith recommends against taking Sage Lore-is this mainly for Resistance Bonus AL 11/13 whatever gives, for the fact there are a few spells you can't get with Sage Lore?

Basically, yeah. While Sage Lore counts toward most things that Arcane Lore does, there's just enough stuff that it doesn't work for that relying on it is annoying. And if you buy 13 points of Arcane Lore with skill points, then Sage Lore is pretty much redundant; between Arcane Lore and Vahnatai Lore you'll have enough points to get all the spells without it. Also, whether you're getting Sage Lore or not, be warned that you absolutely need at least two points specifically of Arcane Lore in order to meet certain requirements for major plot quests.

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:18 AM #54 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Question: At higher difficulty levels-
If you have a party with 2 Priests and 2 Mages, you will wind up having someone get banged on right? So if you create a Priest that doubles as a tank, do you have to take some levels of strength stat to don better armor? If so, would you just use one or both for that purpose?
Would they be shield users then too? Like clerics in other games perhaps. I would think they would generally focus on Blessings and buffs as they don't have as many damage spells, or do you actually count on them to melee a bit?

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:29 AM #55 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostFoumantoo, on 25 February 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Question: At higher difficulty levels-
If you have a party with 2 Priests and 2 Mages, you will wind up having someone get banged on right? So if you create a Priest that doubles as a tank, do you have to take some levels of strength stat to don better armor? If so, would you just use one or both for that purpose?
Would they be shield users then too? Like clerics in other games perhaps. I would think they would generally focus on Blessings and buffs as they don't have as many damage spells, or do you actually count on them to melee a bit?

You gain Strength naturally as you level up, and by the time it really matters you'll have enough to wear all the armour you need, more or less. Plus, even being slightly overweight isn't the end of the world, since it just means you lose an action point or two and your spellcasters often don't need to move around much in combat anyway. I wouldn't recommend actively putting points in Strength on characters who aren't going to be attacking in melee.

If you really want a tank in a full caster party, make a priest who invests in nothing but Endurance every single level. Their healing spells don't depend on their stats, so they can still act as a fully functional healer and buffer. I personally think that's unnecessary and a little boring compared to having a character who can actually fight, but the option exists.

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 09:34 AM #56 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostLilith, on 25 February 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

You gain Strength naturally as you level up, and by the time it really matters you'll have enough to wear all the armour you need, more or less. Plus, even being slightly overweight isn't the end of the world, since it just means you lose an action point or two and your spellcasters often don't need to move around much in combat anyway. I wouldn't recommend actively putting points in Strength on characters who aren't going to be attacking in melee.

If you really want a tank in a full caster party, make a priest who invests in nothing but Endurance every single level. Their healing spells don't depend on their stats, so they can still act as a fully functional healer and buffer. I personally think that's unnecessary and a little boring compared to having a character who can actually fight, but the option exists.

Thanks I agree I do like a melee person-just feels more like the classic "rpg" and that's why I like these games after all I guess...BTW I am taking Pole Weapons on casters to get to Adrenaline Rush, with the comments that this trainer comes sooner in game etc. I actually used a spear a couple times with my casters and they did some damage. This is another restart with better notes and I'm at a whopping level 3 (on Hard this time though unless I get too frustrated)

Thanks your answers are really helpful Lilith

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:08 AM #57 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

I tried the 2 priest and 2 mage party and it works pretty well on torment difficulty until you come to the end fighting your way through Garzhad's fortress where you need to hit stuff with Demonslayer. Still you can heal your party until you hit and you still have a decent enough chance.

You don't need that much extra Endurance so you can fight when not healing.
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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:53 AM #58 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View PostRandomizer, on 25 February 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

I tried the 2 priest and 2 mage party and it works pretty well on torment difficulty until you come to the end fighting your way through Garzhad's fortress where you need to hit stuff with Demonslayer. Still you can heal your party until you hit and you still have a decent enough chance.

You don't need that much extra Endurance so you can fight when not healing.
Do you prefer 1 Melee in your party? On normal I don't think it matters, how about on hard?

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 10:56 AM #59 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

My traditional party is a melee, a pole weapon, mage with some priest spells up to unshackle mind, priest with some low level mage attack spells. The fighters are there mostly because there are so many good weapons and armors later in the game that otherwise get used for only money.
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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:01 PM #60 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Do Priests benefit from spellcraft? For offensive spells I mean, like Smite.

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:22 PM #61 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

View Postxuerebx, on 25 February 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

Do Priests benefit from spellcraft? For offensive spells I mean, like Smite.
Yes
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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:23 PM #62 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Thanks! For some reason I thought the left side of the skill tree  pertained to mages only, whilst priests followed the second branch.

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 12:27 PM #63 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

i'd say yes.

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 03:39 PM #64 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

What exactly entails the "demo" area?

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 03:48 PM #65 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Everything from where you start and the zone reached by going down in Formello.  The full game starts as you go down river in the Dark Waters.
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Posted 26 February 2017 - 11:46 AM #66 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Foumantoo - if you don't mind I've also got another question which I don't think merits another thread. If you haven't went down into the Dark Waters then don't read the spoiler.

Spoiler

Thanks!

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:22 PM #67 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

zuerebx: yes since then some battles aren't as lopsided as they are normally.

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:10 PM #68 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Also summoned monsters scale with caster level so they can become useful for more than shields.
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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:16 PM #69 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Thanks guys :) Good to know!

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:17 PM #70 Question on Party Build for Newcomer to Series A2:CS

Hi Lilith,
One last time I want your opinion on Sage Lore, Vahanatai Lore vs. Arcane Lore. I have restarted on Hard and am able to try different things with some testing of course, but testing stuff through the editor is really not a fun immersive experience.
13 Arcane Lore for all spells and Resistance buff?
3/4 people taking Sage Lore with 2 Arcane Lore for basic requirement in beginning of game for Ritual ( or whatever) Spell?
If going with the 13, at which point do I really need to go past the beginning 2 points? I am having tough battles early here and wondering if I should be putting more initial points in defensive (Hardiness,Resistance etc). Maybe taking points after the early"demo" area? Or does the extra few defensive points for melee fighter and mage/priest spell points really matter in making early fights a little less ass kicking?

I promise I won't ask again-I realize it's a common thread question and appreciate your good will.

Thanks




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