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Celtic Minstrel Celtic Minstrel

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 03:31 PM #1 Blades of Exile Base errors

I've lately been going over old threads discussing errors in the Blades of Exile Base to ensure that all reported errors have been fixed. Most of them were already, and I caught a couple more that had not even been spotted (such as Feldspar Charm, found by comparing to the preset scenarios).

There are, however, a few things that I'm still not sure of.

  • The Dark Wyrm - should it or should it not have darkness breath? Someone suggested it should in another thread, but they seemed unsure. (I have E3, so I could check for myself if I knew where to find one at the beginning of the game with a god party - ie, not a hidden town.)
  • I set asps to drop asp fangs with 60% chance, but maybe the percentage chance should be less? Also, I kinda wonder if any other preset monsters should have similar fixed drops.
  • The scenarios disagree with the base on the stats of several of the missiles - arrows, bolts, and javelins. This would probably be troublesome when mixing these items from different scenarios, since they would stack, and whichever one was in your inventory first would take priority. Should I change them all to match the base? Or maybe change the base to more closely match the scenarios? I could also just give them a unique type flag so they don't stack with regular ones.
  • Micah's Gloves has an ability strength of 1. Originally, it had an ability strength of 8, but the game ignored the ability strength. Should it be put back to 8? (For those who don't remember, Micah's Gloves boost your intelligence stat.)
  • And finally... does anyone know of any additional errors that might have never been found?

I used this thread and the linked Lyceum articles as my primary reference, so if it's mentioned in one of those places, I probably got it.

The fixed bladbase is here; if you can get the scenario editor working and want to view it in the scenario editor, you can download that entire directory (one file at a time, unfortunately), then navigate to the "header.exs" file from the scenario editor (may require setting the file dialog to show "legacy or unpacked scenarios"). It's fairly human-readable too though, at least if you know what all those numbers mean (most are documented somewhere in the BoE documentation on calref).

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 05:42 PM #2 Blades of Exile Base errors

Unless you changed something, Micah's Gloves don't boost Intelligence.  They boost the hidden, mostly-Intelligence-derived "magic bonus" stat.
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Posted 28 January 2017 - 06:33 PM #3 Blades of Exile Base errors

Pretty sure they've always had the Intelligence ability in Blades of Exile.

Glancing over the code, it looks like that currently both affects your effective intelligence level and separately affects the intelligence "stat adjust" used for magic. However, the only place the former is actually used appears to be in mindduels. So what you describe is pretty much exactly what they do, though I think the mindduel effect wasn't there originally.

More importantly... should the ability strength be raised? Based on the code, this would only affect mindduels, as the "stat adjust" only checks for the presence of the ability and ignores the ability strength. (In fact, if you wanted them to not affect mindduels at all, setting the ability strength to 0 would give that without any need for code changes; ignoring ability strength also means the stat adjust functions even when the ability strength is 0.) The only reason I suggested 8 for the ability strength is because that was the original ability strength set in the Blades of Exile Base.
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"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:13 PM #4 Blades of Exile Base errors

I'm confused.  Are you saying that Micah's Gloves in BoE have always, by default, given +8 Intelligence on top of +1 to the Int-derived bonus stat?  Or that it's an invisible bonus that somehow affects raw Int when it is invoked in the Mindduel routine, but not when it is invoked to look up the derived bonus stat?

The former seems pretty implausible, and if that's what they do now, I'd put money that it's the result of a coding change and not their original behavior.  The latter seems weird, but I guess possible.

I still do not understand why any existing in-game mechanics are being modified (as opposed to new options being added) given that
(1) the library of scenarios created with expectation of the old mechanics is so incredibly vast,
(2) the library of scenarios created with expectation of new mechanics is currently zero, and
(3) there doesn't seem to be a working release of BoE (with any letters appended) that has 100% unaltered in-game mechanics and runs on modern platforms.

(Note for clarity: UI and graphics and filesystem improvements are separate from in-game mechanics)
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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:53 PM #5 Blades of Exile Base errors

I'm saying they always had the "Intelligence" ability, without referencing exactly what that ability does; and that in BoE they had an ability strength of 8.

Calculation of the Int stat adjust does not reference the ability strength of Intelligence items, only checks for their existence, and that has not changed from the original code. I think the mindduel effect is new, though. It simply adds the total ability strength from Intelligence items to your total effective Intelligence for the purpose of mindduels (with a max of 20).

Given all this, I guess exactly replicating the original item means it should have an ability strength of 0. Ported Micah's Gloves from other scenarios currently get an ability strength set equal to their item level, but that could easily be changed to force it to 0 always to preserve the older behaviour (ie, no bonus in mindduels). I guess I'll go implement both of those.

Do you have any comments on the other points from the initial post?
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Posted 28 January 2017 - 09:14 PM #6 Blades of Exile Base errors

Okay.  So, I really don't see any evidence to suggest that Micah's Gloves ever did anything with Intelligence itself.  We know they affected the stat-derived bonus by +1, and we know some of those abilities were labelled in vague or misleading ways in BoE.

That mindduel effect is either new, or both Chokboyz and I missed it when we looked at mindduels in the old code dissection thread.

I don't understand why ported items are getting ability strengths assigned to them dependent on some other factor like item level.  Why don't they just use the ability strength they previously had?  If this is because it's a new parameter you've created, why in the world don't they get whatever ability strength assigned as would be precisely equivalent to what the effect always was in original BoE?

Re the other points: 1 and 2 I don't really remember.  3 definitely sounds troublesome.  How much of a difference in stats are we talking?  Creating multiple varieties with different names doesn't sound unreasonable -- that would be the closest approximation of the original, after all, in which your available ammo was apparently suddenly better or worse as you went on.
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Posted 28 January 2017 - 10:19 PM #7 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostBad Object / Good Shadow, on 28 January 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

I don't understand why ported items are getting ability strengths assigned to them dependent on some other factor like item level.  Why don't they just use the ability strength they previously had?  If this is because it's a new parameter you've created, why in the world don't they get whatever ability strength assigned as would be precisely equivalent to what the effect always was in original BoE?
The latter is generally what I've done, actually - I changed the scale of the ability strength for certain abilities, but set the porting code to adjust the strength accordingly. (I don't recall the details off the top of my head, but it's easily looked up in the cItem::import_legacy function in the code.) The question here was more inclined towards questioning whether the behaviour of Micah's Gloves was in error (and should be corrected in the bladbase only, for future scenarios; that wouldn't affect older scenarios that used Micah's Gloves), but after this discussion (and realizing that the ability had always been a flat bonus irrespective of level or ability strength), I'm inclined to think that perhaps the question was misguided from the start.

The asp dropping asp fangs is, similarly, something that would not apply retroactively to old scenarios, as it's a change to the Blades of Exile Base. Thus concerns of keeping things identical aren't quite the same as they are when fiddling directly with the game mechanics; several items have been tweaked already, such as Ogrish and Giantish Gauntlets (which were originally identical in effect).

View PostBad Object / Good Shadow, on 28 January 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

3 definitely sounds troublesome.  How much of a difference in stats are we talking?  Creating multiple varieties with different names doesn't sound unreasonable -- that would be the closest approximation of the original, after all, in which your available ammo was apparently suddenly better or worse as you went on.

In Blades of Exile Base, the following stats are used:

Darts: level 6; value 1 (for simple), 3 (for iron), 15 (for magic)
Throwing Knives: level 9; value 2 (for simple), 7 (for iron)
Arrows: level 11; value 1 (for simple), 7 (for iron), 25 (for magic)
Javelins: level 12; value 2 (for simple), 8 (for iron)
Bolts: level 14; value 2 (for simple), 12 (for iron), 50 (for magic)

In Valley of Dying Things, the following stats are used:

Darts: level 6; value 1 (for simple), 3 (for iron), 15 (for magic)
Throwing Knives: level 9; value 2 (for simple), 6 (for iron)
Arrows: level 12; value 1 (for simple), 20 (for iron), 40 (for magic)
Javelins: level 12; value 2 (for simple), 12 (for iron)
Bolts: level 17; value 3 (for simple), 40 (for iron), 80 (for magic)

In A Small Rebellion, the following stats are used:

Darts: level 6; value 1 (for simple), 3 (for iron), 15 (for magic)
Throwing Knives: level 9; value 2 (for simple), 7 (for iron)
Arrows: level 11; value 1 (for simple), 8 (for iron), 25 (for magic)
Javelins: level 11; value 2 (for simple), 8 (for iron)
Bolts: level 14; value 2 (for simple), 12 (for iron), 80 (for magic)
(As a side note, Smoky Crystal also doubles its value in ASR - 200 instead of 100.)

In The Za-Khazi Run, the following stats are used:

Darts: level 4; value 1 (for simple), 3 (for iron), 15 (for magic)
Throwing Knives: level 7; value 2 (for simple), 7 (for iron)
Arrows: level 9; value 1 (for simple), 20 (for iron), 40 (for magic)
Javelins: level 8; value 2 (for simple), 12 (for iron)
Bolts: level 14; value 3 (for simple), 40 (for iron), 80 (for magic)

Basically they're kind of all over the place. It seems particularly weird that they're the same items (same name and everything), but in several cases they do different amounts of damage (because different item levels). I could imagine that this was done to balance the individual scenarios, but the issue is, what if someone brings arrows from a previous scenario? I need to make them all the same, make them not stack, or carefully codify what happens when slightly different items are combined (which is to say, make an intentional decision and implement it, rather than just letting it work out however the code happens to be).
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 04:06 AM #8 Blades of Exile Base errors

My suggestion is to make all of those missiles match bladbase, because regardless of those three, all other scenarios in existence are working off bladbase.

Slarty, regarding Micah's Gloves, BoE always assigned them the Intelligence ability, from the beginning. I remember that clearly. It's possible Jeff made the change to simplify things, or something. Hidden stats isn't really something any abilities do except for the Mindduel one whose name I forget. (I think Intelligence was given Mindduel effects because of original advertisements so rather than just because, IIRC, right, CM?)
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:24 AM #9 Blades of Exile Base errors

Part of the reason this thread is so confusing is that people keep talking about "the Intelligence ability" without clarifying what they mean.  We are talking about a number of permutations of several things that could all easily be meant by that.  Can you please be more specific?

1. The gloves had an ability listed called "Intelligence"
2. They added +1 to the Int-derived magic bonus
3. They added +1 to Intelligence (visibly)
4. They added +1 to Intelligence (invisibly in a way that affected Mindduel but not the Int-derived magic bonus)
5. They added +8 to Intelligence (visibly)
6. They added +8 to Intelligence (invisibly in a way that affected Mindduel but not the Int-derived magic bonus)
7. Something else

Which one or more of these items are you saying applied to Micah's Gloves in original BoE?
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:57 AM #10 Blades of Exile Base errors

There is an item ability called Intelligence. It is not, despite what one may think, a simple boost to the Intelligence stat. I don't know the specifics of what it does. Celtic Minstrel seems to be implying it never affected Mindduel in original BoE but that tendency was added in OBoE. Backward compatibility/legacy behavior is being maintained. I suggest changing the name of the item ability to avoid confusion.

I believe Will, another item ability which I mentioned but couldn't recall the name, always claimed to affect Mindduel but actually did nothing at all. I'm not sure though.

EDIT: Furthermore, no legacy behavior which affects gameplay has been changed for the purposes of legacy BoE to OBoE, except where we feel reasonably certain that no existing scenario relied on it or took it into account during the design/balancing process. If such changes were made, and there are many (bug fixes, making things work as advertised, etc.), legacy-scenario compatibility checks are put in place to prevent altering the behavior of legacy scenarios.

The only big change that I can think of is the addition of additional races, including the option to start with Vahnatai PCs, and the ability of designers to add PCs with their own races and stick them in the party. Existing NPC "races" like Bug, Reptile, etc. have specifics for inclusion in parties as well. The specifics of implementing that is something else that can be discussed and tinkered with, I suppose.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff, 29 January 2017 - 06:12 AM.

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:24 AM #11 Blades of Exile Base errors

If you don't know what it does then I don't know why you are saying anything in the first place.  We're talking about the actual effect of Micah's gloves, not what is displayed on that one line of it's item info box, which I don't believe is in dispute.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:30 AM #12 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 29 January 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

no legacy behavior which affects gameplay has been changed... except where we feel reasonably certain that no existing scenario relied on it... such changes... there are many
This is exactly the impression I've gotten from the conversations here.  Lots and lots of tiny changes that you don't think matter.  Maybe most don't; but as we well know, not everything in BoE worked as advertised, and many designers knew about and accounted for those departures from expected behavior whether or not it was obvious that they did so.  Look, I'm not saying don't make the version with all of those changes; I'm saying there would be no need to defend them in the first place if there were also a version without those changes -- presumably a less effort-intensive task, anyway.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:30 AM #13 Blades of Exile Base errors

I said I don't know what it does, not that I don't know what it doesn't. It is NOT to do with the Intelligence base stat, which is something you asked. I also provided information about a similar ability, Will, and answered your concerns about legacy compatibility.

I don't wish to get in any more griping matches with you about pointless things, Slarty. You criticize my every post whether there's anything wrong with it or not, as if you're just looking for excuses to make me look bad and ruin my day, and I don't have time for that negativity in my life. You can be helpful to me sometimes, and I'm grateful for that, but it's getting more trouble than it's worth. I am contributing to this project and I am being helpful. If you want perfect answers, this is an open-source project and you can look it up yourself.

EDIT: You posted while I was posting but you ellipsised out all the parts that specifically addressed what you were complaining about. Nice.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:35 AM #14 Blades of Exile Base errors

Legacy-scenario compatibility checks only work if you can accurately assess whether or not the scenario relied on behavior that has been changed.  My point is that you can't accurately assess that.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:30 AM #15 Blades of Exile Base errors

We err on the side of caution. There are only two or three things that we didn't put in legacy checks, and every time CM brings one up I press him for any details about how it could have been used deliberately or even accidentally.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:38 AM #16 Blades of Exile Base errors

Respectfully, erring on the side of caution would mean making original BoE functional, so there is always that option to fall back on.

Is there at least a list of the in-game mechanics changes that have been made, and for those with legacy checks, how they are checked?
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 08:47 AM #17 Blades of Exile Base errors

It does seem like a build that replicates the functionality of original BoE and runs on modern computers would be a good first milestone for the project to reach before going too wild with potential feature creep.

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 09:08 AM #18 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostBad Object / Good Shadow, on 29 January 2017 - 05:24 AM, said:

Part of the reason this thread is so confusing is that people keep talking about "the Intelligence ability" without clarifying what they mean.  We are talking about a number of permutations of several things that could all easily be meant by that.  Can you please be more specific?

1. The gloves had an ability listed called "Intelligence"
2. They added +1 to the Int-derived magic bonus
3. They added +1 to Intelligence (visibly)
4. They added +1 to Intelligence (invisibly in a way that affected Mindduel but not the Int-derived magic bonus)
5. They added +8 to Intelligence (visibly)
6. They added +8 to Intelligence (invisibly in a way that affected Mindduel but not the Int-derived magic bonus)
7. Something else

Which one or more of these items are you saying applied to Micah's Gloves in original BoE?
#1 and #2 applied. They also had an ability strength of 8, which was ignored by the game and had no effect.

View PostThe Almighty Doer of Stuff, on 29 January 2017 - 05:57 AM, said:

EDIT: Furthermore, no legacy behavior which affects gameplay has been changed for the purposes of legacy BoE to OBoE, except where we feel reasonably certain that no existing scenario relied on it or took it into account during the design/balancing process. If such changes were made, and there are many (bug fixes, making things work as advertised, etc.), legacy-scenario compatibility checks are put in place to prevent altering the behavior of legacy scenarios.
Other than bug fixes (like using the archery skill for archery, instead of... I think it was defense?), I think there might be a few numbers that are off by one or two compared to original BoE. There are some definite mechanical changes (or bigger bugfixes) that are disabled with a special flag in the scenario, such as resurrection balm being required for resurrection, or timers being triggered while resting (that was Ormus IIRC). There are likely also a few mechanicla changes which are unintended consequences of one thing or another, which could be considered bugs and eventually fixed (I think I recall something related to dumbfounding).

So does anyone else have comments on the mysterious item stat changes in the preset scenarios? Or even on the Dark Wyrm?
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 09:22 AM #19 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostCeltic Minstrel, on 29 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

Other than bug fixes (like using the archery skill for archery, instead of... I think it was defense?), I think there might be a few numbers that are off by one or two compared to original BoE. There are some definite mechanical changes (or bigger bugfixes) that are disabled with a special flag in the scenario, such as resurrection balm being required for resurrection, or timers being triggered while resting (that was Ormus IIRC). There are likely also a few mechanicla changes which are unintended consequences of one thing or another, which could be considered bugs and eventually fixed (I think I recall something related to dumbfounding).
Ahhh... the special flag seems like a good solution provided it defaults to being on for all scenarios that predate the new code.

Is there a list of
1) changes like the defense/archery thing (which sounds fair since IIRC it wasn't known about till the code release?) that are always applied
2) changes that are applied only when the special flag is set to use the new version
3) unintended consequence changes (those that are known anyway)

The possibility of #3 growing without anyone realizing it is one of the really good reasons to have a version with no extra changes.
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Posted 29 January 2017 - 09:49 AM #20 Blades of Exile Base errors

I'll try to compile a list. #2 is easy since I can just search for the flag in the source (in fact there's a list already in the repository, which I think is still complete); #1 and #3 are a bit harder and would hinge more on memory and/or old bug lists... or even comparing against the original code.

(And the legacy flag is indeed set to true in ported scenarios and false in newly-created scenarios; there's no UI way to toggle the flag, though the scenario editor will offer to turn it off if it's on; it doesn't force it though. To turn it on you'd have to edit the XML.)

Can we get back on topic now? This thread was supposed to be about the Blades of Exile Base, not mechanics.
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"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 05:38 PM #21 Blades of Exile Base errors

I noticed a few more weird things - the Archer's Bow and Wand of Nullity have the concealed ability flag. The former has no ability at all, and the latter's ability seems somewhat obvious from the name. Are these items supposed to have a concealed ability? Is the Archer's Bow supposed to have some special ability?
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Posted 31 January 2017 - 05:47 PM #22 Blades of Exile Base errors

IIRC the special thing about the Archer's Bow was just the bonus defense it offered.  I can't remember, but maybe one of the Exiles showed "No ability" or something in that box by default, and Jeff didn't want the Archer's Bow to be presented as mundane.

Was the Wand of Nullity a cursed item?  Experience draining or something?  All the cursed consumables had concealed abilities I think.
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Posted 31 January 2017 - 05:50 PM #23 Blades of Exile Base errors

The Wand of Nullity creates antimagic fields... at least, that's what its ability is set to in the Blades Base. I suppose that itself could be incorrect.
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Posted 31 January 2017 - 05:53 PM #24 Blades of Exile Base errors

Hmm... looks like it did the same thing in E2 and E3 as well.  No idea why it has that set, then.
"I, for one, prefer to believe that the forums are dead and that Lilith, Slarty, and I are all ghosts haunting the forum." -- Triumph

"I think we all have days where we feel like a Displacer Iguana." -- Slarty

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:44 PM #25 Blades of Exile Base errors

In regards to Dark Wyrms, the only ones I remember in E3 where in one artifact quest in a dungeon under the mutant giant one, and one town in the province locked away due to alien beasts, so not easy to get to with a new party at all.

OTOH, would scry monster show what type of breath it has?  Cause then I'd imagine old saved games from near the end might have them, scrying all the monsters was a big part of the game for many people.

I was also surprised to see "darkness" breath in BoE the first time I saw it, I don't remember it in E3 at all, or maybe I'd confused it with some other breath type.

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 06:48 PM #26 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostBad Object / Good Shadow, on 31 January 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

Hmm... looks like it did the same thing in E2 and E3 as well.  No idea why it has that set, then.
What about it just being a red herring?

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:02 PM #27 Blades of Exile Base errors

If I recall correctly, scry monster in legacy BoE did not show what kind of breath the monster has. I don't know if that was different in E3, though.

Exile 2 Book of Items (I didn't create it, I just converted it to HTML.)

"Man, I know how you feel. I once spent an hour playing WordPad before realising that it was a text editor." – Thuryl

"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 05:32 PM #28 Blades of Exile Base errors

Hmmm...in that case, how do you tell what type of breath it has?  Do they all have different graphics?  Or do you need various protections from other breath types with the same graphics and see what causes damage?

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 06:23 PM #29 Blades of Exile Base errors

I think you can't tell unless you see it use its breath weapon. In BoE, the animation is the same a cold or electricity, and it deals unblockable damage, so wouldn't be affected by items that protect from cold or electricity. I'd guess the message in the transcript would be the best way to tell.

It wouldn't really surprise me if people just assumed the Dark Wyrm should have darkness breath because of the name, but I would like to be as certain as possible. (Maybe someone could hack a Dark Wyrm into the crystal soul in a save file and test it that way?)

EDIT: Also, does anyone else have opinions on what do do about the different missile stats in the three original scenarios? And the different value of the Smoky Crystal in one case.
Exile 2 Book of Items (I didn't create it, I just converted it to HTML.)

"Man, I know how you feel. I once spent an hour playing WordPad before realising that it was a text editor." – Thuryl

"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 06:44 PM #30 Blades of Exile Base errors

A unique flag so that they don't stack seems to make sense, maybe some arrows are just different.  I don't like the idea of changing the items to match some of the scenarios, you still have to pick a value for each and change things to match.  Don't like the idea of changing the official scenarios...there's also area descriptions that probably should be one time only, but then I'd argue that the scenarios should be left as is.

However, in any case...does anyone actually use missile weapons?  Certainly, it'd be better if there weren't errors, but not sure how often it'd actually affect anything.  So I don't really have a strong opinion on this.

The Dark Wyrm...well, people can edit their own monsters to have whatever breath they like without any issue.  Asps can be summoned by Sticks to Snakes, however, so their stats matter.

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 07:34 PM #31 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostThaluikhain, on 01 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Don't like the idea of changing the official scenarios...there's also area descriptions that probably should be one time only, but then I'd argue that the scenarios should be left as is.
I don't really agree on this and have plans to eventually make changes to the scenarios to have them make use of some of the new features, such as quests. (I guess someone who really wants to play the unaltered version could download the original .exs and play from that instead.)

View PostThaluikhain, on 01 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

However, in any case...does anyone actually use missile weapons?  Certainly, it'd be better if there weren't errors, but not sure how often it'd actually affect anything.  So I don't really have a strong opinion on this.
Well, I assume some people do. The reason why I need to deal with it one way or another is because when two items stack, one of the items is destroyed and its charges are added to the other item's charges. In other words, it's effectively arbitrary whether you get the stats from one item or the other. (Technically, I believe you'll always get the stats of the item you're already carrying, meaning the stats of the scenario item will be lost.)

View PostThaluikhain, on 01 February 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Asps can be summoned by Sticks to Snakes, however, so their stats matter.
Hmm, good point. Player-summoned monsters never drop "glands", but monster-summoned monsters do, so this would have an effect if an enemy (or ally!) casts Sticks to Snakes. Maybe I'll reduce it drastically... 5% or 10% maybe?

I believe that the fact that asps don't drop their fangs would be surprising to a new player (once they know asp fangs are an item), and it would certainly be surprising to someone who'd only played Exile III.
Exile 2 Book of Items (I didn't create it, I just converted it to HTML.)

"Man, I know how you feel. I once spent an hour playing WordPad before realising that it was a text editor." – Thuryl

"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 09:00 PM #32 Blades of Exile Base errors

Please release a functional version with no changes before you release one with the Spiderweb scenarios altered.
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Posted 01 February 2017 - 10:13 PM #33 Blades of Exile Base errors

Emphasis on "eventually". I have no intention of doing any functional work on the scenarios when the programs themselves aren't working properly. I'll be using different scenarios (some of my own, a tutorial scenario, and possibly Bandit Busywork) as an aid for testing any new features before I consider using any of those features in the original three scenarios.

Seriously, you don't need to jump on me every time I mention nebulous future plans or ask opinions on how to handle things. I know legacy compatibility and consistency is important. I know bugs are more important than feature creep.
Exile 2 Book of Items (I didn't create it, I just converted it to HTML.)

"Man, I know how you feel. I once spent an hour playing WordPad before realising that it was a text editor." – Thuryl

"Dikiyoba just hopes no one ever blows up Saturn. Getting those rings back into their proper position would take hours."

"—Alorael, who spells phoenetically. No matter how much his orthography is a wreck, intelligibility rises from the ashes."

"I've never played a Spiderweb game. I didn't even know SW made games until I saw this thread." —Nikki

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 06:55 PM #34 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostCeltic Minstrel, on 01 February 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Well, I assume some people do. The reason why I need to deal with it one way or another is because when two items stack, one of the items is destroyed and its charges are added to the other item's charges. In other words, it's effectively arbitrary whether you get the stats from one item or the other. (Technically, I believe you'll always get the stats of the item you're already carrying, meaning the stats of the scenario item will be lost.)

Ah, but if you were just giving a new flag to those items, what's to stop that flag number having being used in some other scenario for something else?  Actually, what's to stop that happening normally, without worrying about odd things in the official scenarios?

View PostCeltic Minstrel, on 01 February 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Hmm, good point. Player-summoned monsters never drop "glands", but monster-summoned monsters do

Why is that?  To stop player summoning monsters and killing them for their stuff or something?  Seems odd.

(Getting a bit off-topic, but unicorns dropping unicorn horns which, IIRC, have no value except you can sell them to one person in E3...that sees a bit pointless in BoE unless people are in a scenario that specifically does something with them)

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 10:33 PM #35 Blades of Exile Base errors

View PostThaluikhain, on 02 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

Ah, but if you were just giving a new flag to those items, what's to stop that flag number having being used in some other scenario for something else?  Actually, what's to stop that happening normally, without worrying about odd things in the official scenarios?

The short answer is nothing: the hope is that there are enough possible flags and people will select randomly enough to avoid an accidental collision. It's not an ideal system.




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