Greta? What happened to her?[G5]

[Trakovite Mitchell]

I got a strange feeling she didn't survive the ending of G4. What happened to her?

[Alorael at Large]

She survived just fine. She's still leading the rebellion, or at least a part of it. She's still not a huge fan of the Ghaldring or the drakons, but beating the Shapers comes first.

 

—Alorael, who can add that you will meet her briefly in the second "chapter" of the game and get to speak to her as more of a permanent fixture somewhat later.

[Trakovite Mitchell]

Eh totally contradicts the end game. Also on a note what happened to Miranda and Alwan (I saw the screen shot of him)

[Alorael at Large]

Alwan survived with grievous injuries and is permanently attached to scaffolding and equipment to keep him alive and functional. He isn't mobile, but he's still commanding armies. Miranda died, and Alwan is rather unhappy about it.

 

—Alorael, who would be careful about considering endgame canonicity. After all, only one ending can be right, and often it seems like Jeff puts a few of them together to come out with a kind of blended ending.

[Trakovite Mitchell]

Figures Jeff kills off my favorite character... AGAIN!

 

Any other characters get killed off?

[Gandalf the Purple]

Miranda died?!? Seriously? I figured she would have a larger role in this one, or at least be a meetable character. That's kinda depressing, she was one of my favorites.

[Quiconque]

Or throws them out entirely. Based on what Litalia says about Drypeak Valley, it seems that NONE of the G2 endings are canonical. (Except possibly the unsuccessful ending where you quit the game

[Gandalf the Purple]

I think Jeff alters every one of his endings, at least a little bit. It certainly seems that way.

[Trakovite Mitchell]

And Crowley and Jerad. Let me guess crowley is living Jerad is dead?

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: Shaper Mitchell

And Crowley and Jerad. Let me guess crowley is living Jerad is dead?

Neither of them appear in the game. If they're alive, they're probably still in the eastern half of the continent.

[Gandalf the Purple]

So most of the characters introduced in G4 either got killed or left in Eastern Terrestia(sp)?

[Quiconque]

This has been true of every game in the series. Well, the G1 --> G2 trip preserved a lot more, actually.

[Gandalf the Purple]

Three of the five faction leaders are from G3 though, whereas none of them are from G4.

[Lilith]

I suppose Ghaldring technically appeared in G3, but he wasn't really fleshed out as a character until G4.

[Gandalf the Purple]

True enough. Speaking of Ghaldring, I assume he is the extreme rebel faction leader?

[Lilith]

Well, he ain't a moderate.

[Alorael at Large]

He's also really the only rebel leader. He's one of three on the rebel end of the rebel/Shapers reputation scale, but the Trakovites certainly aren't the rebels and, well, a member of the Shaper Council makes a less than convincing rebel, even as a secret traitor to the Shapers rebel.

 

—Alorael, who sees the retention of old characters as a sign of continuity and series maturity. It's not overloaded like the later Avernums were, in a way, but it would be odd to have the rebels and Shapers get entirely new leadership for each game.

[Gandalf the Purple]

I kinda hoped he would be part of a more moderate group of drakons. He seemed a little wiser than most somehow, and in a way that would make him decide that blowing up the world was unnecesary.

[Alorael at Large]

Wiser? Ghaldring?

 

He doesn't want to blow up the world. He doesn't even want to slaughter all the Shapers. He just wants to make sure they go from Shapers to shapers, and just one among the many who have access to that power.

 

—Alorael, who doesn't think drakons do moderate. That's also not terribly suprising, considering it's an entire species of geneforge/canister/self-shaping junkies.

[Gandalf the Purple]

Oh well. He be a fun fight anyway. And who knows? On one of my many playthroughs I will probably join his faction. But if the drakons are they were in G4, I probably won't like it too much.

[Lilith]

It's possible to get almost to the end of the game before deciding which faction to join, so as long as you keep a couple of backup savefiles and don't mess up, it should only take two playthroughs (one for Shaper reputation, one for Rebel) to see just about everything there is to see in G5.

[Alorael at Large]

Or only one, if you're willing to set the reputation flag and then do a few extra quests. I think you'd have to start from a save file considerably farther back, but at the very least you can avoid the beginning of the game.

 

—Alorael, who also recommends not going into certain areas that you are told not to go into until you are told to ignore that and go ahead. It's possible to fail a faction before joining it. (Thanks for the heads-up, Thuryl!)

[Gandalf the Purple]

Well that would suck, watch me get locked out of the faction I want to join by doing something stupid.

 

Coincidently, is it possible to powergame all the factions like you can in G2?

[Lilith]

To a limited extent. The quests you get from a faction before swearing loyalty to it can be done without angering anybody important; the quests you get after swearing loyalty will usually make at least one other faction permanently hostile.

[Gandalf the Purple]

So, you can get a little from all of the factions, but you can only get a lot from one?

[Quiconque]

Ghaldring, to me at least, seemed much more canny and interesting in G4 than in G5, where he has become a cardboard cutout rebel leader.

[Dahak]

Well I'm in Astoria's faction right now and I've got the mission for the Spires. No one is angered yet thankfully...

 

What about Rawal's quest (non-faction) to slay Platano?

[*i]

While I haven't taken the Rebel path yet, but I've gathered Ghaldring turns into another boring version of Bob.

[Alorael at Large]

You can do a little bit for many factions, but only sometimes. Mostly they'll have a reputation requirement, and it would require careful tracking and work to ensure that you can do the pre-commitment quests for both rebellious and loyalist factions.

 

—Alorael, who would guess, from what he's seen, that Rawal's quests are unlikely to cause the sweeping hostilities of the major factions but can quite possibly cause local dissatisfaction and distaste. Since he makes a policy of dissociating from Rawal early and often, he has little evidence to back up his beliefs.

[Randomizer]

Rawal's quests don't cause a problem except Kill Platano blocks joining Taygen's quest. Nice reward and the fight to leave isn't too hard. Plenty of loot.

[Lilith]

Originally Posted By: *i

While I haven't taken the Rebel path yet, but I've gathered Ghaldring turns into another boring version of Bob.

Jeff isn't a good enough writer to avoid this over the course of an entire game, I don't think. He really shouldn't have let the player meet Ghaldring so early in the plot; having to receive quests through his servants rather than dealing with Ghaldring directly would have kept an air of mystery about him, and been quite appropriate for his character. Oh well.

[Khoth]

It's certainly possible to keep your reputation balanced and do the initial quests for everyone so that all factions are willing to accept your swearing. (Although you might need to save up Greta or that other guy who can swing your reputation).

[Quiconque]

Leadership can also (partially) make up for not having the needed reputation, for the purposes of joining factions.

[Gandalf the Purple]

How much leadership?

[Lilith]

Every point of leadership counts as 1 reputation point toward the requirement -- so the further away you are from meeting the reputation requirement, the more leadership you'll need.

[wxxqut]

What happened with Monarch?

You had option to let him go and he fled to Western Terrestria if you did?

Do you get a chance to fight him again?

[Alorael at Large]

No. He's missing entirely, probably on the assumption that he's dead.

 

—Alorael, who categorically rejects the possibility that you are Monarch. Monarch was not a servile.

[wxxqut]

lol Maybe he was reshapen as one.

[Quiconque]

Neither were most G4 PCs. Unless you conclude that the PC really was unknown to the games, the nine classes available eliminate all options.

[Randomizer]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Every point of leadership counts as 1 reputation point toward the requirement -- so the further away you are from meeting the reputation requirement, the more leadership you'll need.

It varys with the faction, but moderate factions only use half of your leadership and extemist factions use a third of your leadership to modify reputation.

Conason in Lethia Pass and Greta in Gazaki-Uss have the largest reputation change.

[Alorael at Large]

I do think that the PC isn't supposed to be a character who appeared previously. From an in-game perspective I don't find the evidence compelling, and from a meta-game perspective I doubt both that Jeff would explicitly make a non-generic PC and that, if he did, he would cunningly conceal the PC's backstory.

 

—Alorael, who sees more evidence in the large variety of possible classes. The G5 PC is generic, but he/she is generic only because there are a tragically large number of reshaped and mindwashed people left by the rebellion. He would have been happy to see more of them appear in the game, actually. Why does Rawal get the only neat person-tool? It could even have been set up in a Nethergate-like fashion where whatever you're trying to do your counterpart is trying to undo. Join Astoria and he/she/it joins Taygen! Join Alwan and you're facing a staunch Trakovite!

[Waladil]

It annoys me how people change things, but it's just neccesary. For any of you who played Deus Ex and Invisible War (NO DEBATES ON RELATIVE QUALITY!!!) the "true" ending was a combination of multiple (I think you took out A51 + joined w/ Helios)