Designer Note On Quests and Job Boards

[Spidweb]

Since there has been some discussion lately on job boards and quests, I wanted to duck in here for a moment.

 

There are lots of quests in the towns. Some of these quests becomes more difficult if you devastate the surrounding area before entering town. A tiny handful of them (like the spy-hunting quest in the Drake Pillars) become moot once the chapter has been completed.

 

I have gone to some effort to make sure that all quests can be completed at any time in the game. For example, monsters that you have to hunt (like the rats and scuttlers in chapter 1) respawn so that they can be hunted later. Most unusual monsters the job boards have you hunt only spawn after you actually have the proper quest.

 

A few quests that are integrally related to the plot fizzle out once the plot has advanced beyond a certain point, but, in a game with almost 200 quests, a couple of them falling through the cracks doesn't seem like a terrible problem.

 

The Job Boards are a pleasing extra. A way to earn a few extra coins or do some fun side stuff before continuing the story. Even if you never looked sideways at a job board, it's still a good game.

 

I'm sorry that this strikes some people as a problem, but I don't see a decent solution for it. If I want the job boards to be optional (I do), I have to give the player an option to rampage and kill stuff without paying attention to them.

 

So, if you are determined to do every quest (a compulsion I share, by the way), it is not unreasonable to suggest, before trashing a dungeon, dropping by town first to see if anyone wants anything special done in that dungeon.

 

If there are any quests that you believe actually and unreasonably become undoable, drop me an E-mail. I'll see if there is a bug.

 

- Jeff Vogel

[Swivelable]

Makes sense that some critters would respawn as neither my priest or mage have yet attained Fumigate. Even that spell doesn't always get into every crevice or hidding nook.

 

My approach was to wander around first, hopeing I could deal with an infestation and afterwards talk to the guy who wanted em gone Then I would't have to come back to find that person once the job was done, but could immediately get the quest, tell em I did it, and get rewarded.

 

Sometimes I wander for days looking for the quest giver.

 

I can't complain about the way you have it set up, though. It makes sense to me, and I just have ammended my ways to get that cold drink in town before rampaging the wilderness.

[madrigan]

The quest to kill Dorikas is really hard. It seems to go on and on. Every time I kill him and try to go back to the general for my reward, the game ends before I can be paid. Is that a bug?

 

/heh heh

 

FWIW, I think it's fine this way. Don't the rules of fantasy adventure stipulate that all adventures start in a town or an inn?

[Emperor Tullegolar]

I don't think this thread could possibly be linked to enough. Even though it is confusingly labeled as "Advice for Optimizing Rewards" at strategy central, it is really a guide on how to avoid many of the problems addressed by Jeff here. It is full of spoilers, but really the only way to be sure to do everything is to know a little about what is going to happen in advance; a bit of a trade off, if you will. It depends on your preferred play style. Those who have been complaining about quest completion will find it useful, otherwise just have fun and wing it. I'm actually in the former group, but never got around to complaining because I found the above thread.

 

As for Jeff's design style, I have indeed noticed that he attempts to cater to completionists, despite a few flaws, and thus I have no objections.

[Spidweb]

I do put a lot of effort into catering to completionists, but this can be taken too far. I like for my games to involve real decisions, with real effects.

 

This only has any meaning when going down one path prevents others. For example, killing Shafrir for the Anama, or trading popularity for power by working for Gladwell. This is how making one choice or another has an actual impact.

 

But note this very important thing. This is all just side stuff. None of it has a major impact on the main plot thread. If any choice you can make actually hinders your ability to do the main plot, it is a bug, and I will deal with it instantly and decisively.

 

The quests were are arguing about are a really just a rounding error in a very big game with a lot of stuff to do.

 

- Jeff Vogel

[DokEnkephalin]

I understand the design goal, but for many it's an unexpected departure from the gameplay style that served through earlier games in the series. Sometimes those jobs start in some other direction from where you may be inclined to drift, no matter how well the guiding roads were paved. I was fortunate to read the warnings before hunting off the beaten paths, otherwise I probably would've been burned the same way as others, coming to rest at a safe haven and reading how many rewards I blew by free-ranging.

[*i]

I know it would be more work, but perhaps putting in some flag to remove the quest from dialogue, quest log, and job boards after it becomes impossible to complete would be nice. I think this would alleviate a lot of the pain expressed while not having to bend over backwards trying to restructure a plot line.

[Randomizer]

Jeff in Geneforge 4 removed quests that could no longer be finished because there were two people wanting the same thing or the recipient left. I asked during beta testing for this because of the mined crystal quest in Harkin's Landing that stays long after everyone there is dead.

[Evnissyen]

Well, in at least most cases doesn't it not even matter whether or not you've already wiped out a certain area once you get around to getting a quest for it? (Unless, of course, you kill somebody who was supposed to receive a letter, or something along those lines.) I mean, there've been instances where I've gotten a quest that I already took care of, and then gotten the reward by simply mentioning that I took care of it already. I reached Exodus, for example, after killing that mischievous goblin, what's-his-name, Gobi or something? So, after the mayor gave me the quest to kill him I simply told him I already killed the bastard, and got the XP.

 

I remember there was another part where somebody wanted the head of some creature, and I realized I'd already killed her, so I simply went back, found the head, and returned with it.

[Ilintar]

I think one good idea would be to remove from your quest list those quests which are given by people in a town turned hostile. Without tinkering in the editor, you won't be able to do them anyways and they tend to litter up the quest list a bit. And if someone wants to use the editor, they can reenable the quests anyways.