Artifact fork for Guardians

[Student of Trinity]

Would you believe it: one of the cupboards in Khyryk's Tower has a spoon that acts as a Puresteel Soulblade!

 

Well, would you believe that it acts as a Steel Dagger?

 

Would you believe that it's worth 1 coin?

 

Sorry, this is not actually about an Easter egg utensil.

 

The major artifact choice is between the Creator's Belt and the Crystalline Shroud, because pretty early in the game you get enough ingredients to make either one of these two, but you don't get the second Deep Focus Orb until you slay the Alpha Creator, at the far end of the Monastery Caves, which is probably the toughest fight in Geneforge 3.

 

The relative payoffs:

Creator's Belt gives +20% armor (enormous for a belt) and gives +2 to all four creation attributes.

Crystalline Shroud gives only 16% armor (quite low for a breastplate), but +2AP, +3 to creation Strength, +30% stun resistance (decent), and +12% Hostile Effect resistance (way better than All-Protector's measly +5%).

 

For a Shaper, the better creation buffing of the Belt looks like it wins, but the Shroud puts up some fight with its Hostile Effect and Strength buff. For an Agent, the Creator's Belt is practically useless, so the Shroud is a no-brainer.

 

For a Guardian I'm thinking that the Shroud probably wins in the end, since choosing it amounts to picking offence over defence: much lower armor and creation defense, but much better attack. Plus the opportunity cost of the CB is fairly high, because there are other good belts available early in the game. My only concern is that the CS is terrible armor for a melee Guardian in the midgame.

 

Any ideas?

[shell]

The whole question is moot as by the time you get the orb pretty much every enemy worth defeating has already been defeated. The shroud is probably the best bet, the +3 creation strength is tempting and +2AP plus quicksilver boots means a good three moves per turn. I wouldn't worry about the low armour; I never wear anything heavier than chainmail and get by just fine.

[Delicious Vlish]

My Hunter Guardian made the Shroud. Had everything he needed. It was, I think, a better choice for him than the Emerald Chestplate. Light weight allowed him to carry more ammo, and carry more junk to make said ammo.

 

If I were going toe to toe, I think I might make the belt personally and shoot for high armor %.

[Student of Trinity]

It's not a moot point at all. The first DFO is in Spharon's back room, and so either the Crystalline Shroud or the Creator's Belt should be the very first artifact you make. The question is which one, because whichever one you don't make first, you will have to make last.

 

The comparison between the CS and the Emerald Chestguard is less important, because you have to choose between CS and CB about an island and a half before you can get Khyryk's Demon Claw and think about making the EC. And by that point what you're really going to be comparing is the EC and the Avenger's Ring.

 

For the 'Hunter' Guardian build, I agree that the CS seems the best choice. I'm reluctant to accept that this is the only viable Guardian build, though, because it seems too much like an inferior Agent, who has to scrounge missiles instead of just regaining energy. At the moment my Guardian is on Harmony, and he and Alwan are having a very tough time, except when I splurge and dip into my stock of crystals. I'm only starting now to put points into Dexterity, but I've just made a couple of Thahds and they do seem to help. If a squad of creations makes a big enough difference I might end up trying the Creator's Belt.

[Delicious Vlish]

I don't think it's the only viable Guardian build... But I believe that it is the most effective.

 

Dexterity really is a powerful element now. It adds to accuracy, missile damage, and to your armor % Pump it high enough and you become very hard to hit, and you usually get to go first in combat. So it makes sense to use a build that would get the most mileage out of a single skill.

 

On lower diffculties, this is all a moot point, as I have mentioned. You can beat normal difficulty with your starting dagger and some chiton armor. On higher difficulties, stuff hits hard. It really is a life or death struggle. Making mistakes really can be fatal. And just coming out of the school, a Thahd or a Fyora can hit you so hard it can kill you outright, or stun you if you live, making you an easy snack on the next turn. So it really is better to hit them before they hit you.

 

The "Hunter" is not the only viable Guardian build, but, it is a functional build that has finally come into it's own. I really am happy that finally, all three classes are somewhat balanced now, and each truly has a moment in the sun.

 

Oh, apart from crystal weapons, where is your trusty baton? Never has a Geneforge game had more thorns than G3. Ammo is everywhere, and batons are truly deadly now... Wait till you get an Acid, Submission, or a Reaper gun... Er baton.

 

And on Harmony Isle, Venom Batons completely kick Vlish behind... Shoot, run away, and let the poison do it's thing.

[Student of Trinity]

I am looking forward to an Acid baton; this venom one is losing its sting. Shooting Vlish with a baton and running away only works if you're on speed, because when your turn ends they shoot back, and they hit me as hard as I hit them. And I've been kind of hoarding my speed potions. I'm just realizing that I don't really have to, because they are much more plentiful in G3 than before. But they still don't last long, and it's a toss-up whether to burn through crystals or speed potions to clear those Vlish.

 

In the end Alwan and I swept the Vlish Woods going tree-to-tree and mostly hand-to-hand, working the angles and ambushing so that we mostly only fought one at a time. Though for the Energized Vlish I just chugged a Speed potion and blasted it twice with a Discipline Wand, feeling like Indy shooting the blademaster in Raiders.

[Contra]

I don't see the point with the Creators Belt anyway (except for the Armor). Why? Because i always go for Girdle of Geniues. Sorry, but those two extra point of Int can give up to 100 extra Essence for a Shaper, something i would rather have.

[Student of Trinity]

Actually I thought hard about that, but by the time you're going to get 100 essence from 2 Int, you're also going to have several big creations, and upgrading them all by 8 points would cost well over 100 essence. I'm not totally sure the Creator's Belt beats the Girdle of Genius, but I think it probably does. Fewer creations, but better ones, lets you level up a bit faster, and takes less management work.

[Hawk King]

you know i could make it so every spoon is a guardian claymore or whatever if you want

[Aoslare]

Yeah, but not all 8 of those points are useful. In particular, the Int isn't that great for most creations.

[Contra]

I never use more then 1 creation anyway. When i realised that they ate my XP (which i did only when starting to play G2) then i went for one uberpumped creation instead, which works perfectly. I don't care how little they eat my XP, it is still more then i can stand. One creation usually takes about 3 XP for every kill i make, which is annoying as it is.

[Student of Trinity]

Higher Int for creations reduces the chances of them panicking or being dazed or charmed, I believe. And this is quite significant. All four attributes are well worth having. Anyway, I bet the other six points would cost more than a 100 for a few high-level creations, even without the Int.

[Aoslare]

On second thought, please ignore everything I say in this thread

I've never actually finished a game as a shaper -- half or two-thirds of the way through I finally get fed up of taking care of my creations and just go play as an agent.