Jump to content

Some BoE concerns


Recommended Posts

BoE is Free Open Source Software and can be freely modified and distributed under GNU GPL. I've patched my copy of legacy BoE with the Thrown Missiles fix described at http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/25797-archery-vs-item-lore/ and will distribute it.

 

This Intel Mac version is in the forum header: http://redsaurus.net/boe/BoE10.7+301212.zip Assuming this version works well, could this please be patched for the Thrown Missiles fix? I don't want to clutter up OpenBoE.com with non-experimental stuff, but I did buy BladesOfExile.com and BladesOfExile.net a couple months ago. I'd like to use one of those for more general Exile stuff, including hosting Thrown Missile-patched legacy versions, links to Trilogy downloads, and instructions for installing the software that allows the series to run on x64 Windows systems.

 

I'd also like the MacOS graphics files extracted from the Mac BoE version, for inclusion with the legacy Windows download from my site. I'd like to make the darker MacOS graphics the default, while having copies of the Mac and Windows graphics sets in two subdirectories for easy copy-paste to match any given scenario or preference. Could someone assist me with this, please? The legacy release and the open-source release can be found here: http://spiderwebsoftware.com/productsOld.html

 

(What I mean about the graphics subdirectories is this: Graphics are stored in BLADEXIL/BLADEDIT/ by default. I would include two subdirectories, BLADEXIL/BLADEDIT/LightGraphics/ and /BLADEXILE/BLADEDIT/DarkGraphics/ which would have the complete sets. Then you just open one up, copy the contents, and paste them over the files in BLADEXIL/BLADEDIT/ , which I hope will be easy to understand.)

 

The PowerPC version link in the header is dead. Would the original legacy MacOS version run on PowerPC Macs easily, perhaps with a simple compatibility layer or something? I don't know how it works.

 

Which would be the preferable domain to use for a BoE hub: BladesOfExile.com or BladesOfExile.net? i don't know the standards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,
concerning the MacOS graphics, it is still possible to use an emulator SheepShaver, MiniVMac, ... to install these old executables. In general, these executables install only a few files, one of which contains all the images.

 

For example, installing Exile III creates 11 files: 3 executables (Exile, Editor, Docs/Order Form), 5 data files (Graphics, Outdoors, Sounds, Specials, Towns) and 3 text files (READMe, Version History, Software License).  In this case, the file of interest "Exile III Graphics" contains ~85 .pict files (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICT ), they are stored in its resource fork (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork ) ; they have no name, only a number: 700, 701, ..., 3001.

 

Note:
- I can try to create a small program to extract them automatically, ...


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just modified one of my program to extract the .pict contained in the file "Exile III Graphics", so now I have a list of files : 700.pct, 701.pct, ... ; if you send me an email in a private message, I can send your a .zip containing these files.

 

Notes:
- I can see them in the Finder. LibreOffice seems able to open them but ImageMagic seems to have problem with some of them, ...
- concerning SheepShaver, I use it to emulate a MacOS9 system on some recent Mac, this works ( but at the beginning, it can be tricky to install MacOS9, ...)

- I will try latter to extract the pictures in Exile I, ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thing I'd like is this: I want to make it so Instant Help is NOT turned on by default with new parties. I want to make a more intuitive, more in-depth tutorial scenario and make it prominently visible. Instant Help with every new party gets grating and it's not especially easy to understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For this, it would probably be better to use cboe, i.e. there is already an option to disable Instant Help in the preferences (although I don't check that it works). 

 

Just for information, I compiled my version of cboe (after quickly fixing many problems): https://github.com/fosnola/cboe/commits/master ;  of course, everything is not perfect but under OSX, I was able to finish about ten scenarios without major problems...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/13/2020 at 12:44 PM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Another thing I'd like is this: I want to make it so Instant Help is NOT turned on by default with new parties.

 

Turning off Instant Help is the first thing I do every time I start new game. Making it off by default is a great idea.
I put up a temporary link to a version of BLADES.EXE for Windows that has Instant Help off by default.
It also has the Thrown Missile fix and Locked Door keyboard shortcuts.
I will try to make patches for Exile 1-3 and the Mac versions too.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I'm a bit late to the party; I could have easily extracted the PICT resources from the Mac version using ResEdit in my Basilisk II instance, but I guess you already have them now? Have you checked that the graphics are not glitched or anything? Are there any graphics missing? There are also the ppat resources which correspond to one of the Windows graphics sheets, so if you need those, I can probably extract them with ResEdit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're glitched, yes, but not the important bits. Mostly just the interface buttons and stuff which are the same between Mac and PC. The only difference I currently have is MISC.BMP, which includes some patterns. Is that what you mean? Also, it looks like the Mac version has an original attack pose for the Living Statue, if you'd like to replace the one you made for OBoE.

 

It'd be nice if someone could make the reverse, with Windows graphics fitted into the Mac graphics' layout. Another thing I'm doing is fixing some anomalies such as transparent pixels where they should not be, and mirroring all the monsters properly (they're not perfect mirrors for some reason).

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

It'd be nice if someone could make the reverse, with Windows graphics fitted into the Mac graphics' layout. Another thing I'm doing is fixing some anomalies such as transparent pixels where they should not be, and mirroring all the monsters properly (they're not perfect mirrors for some reason).

I just took a quick look at some of these .pct files; most (all?) seem to contain only a single RGB(*) pixmap. I've just modified one of my codes to extract this pixmap (one per file) and convert it to png.

 

(*) so I guess the transparent pixels were added by the conversion application.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it would be difficult. Using Linux, I run the Mac versions on Basilisk (68k Mac emulator), and the Windows versions on DOSBox (DOS emulator). I think modern Mac users would also need Basilisk or DOSBox to run them.

 

Edited by Motardo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/15/2020 at 1:01 PM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Also, it looks like the Mac version has an original attack pose for the Living Statue, if you'd like to replace the one you made for OBoE.

Huh? The Windows version didn't have an attack pose for the living statue? Anyway, I'm pretty sure the one in OBoE is the same one you're seeing in the Mac graphics. The OBoE graphics are the Mac graphics.

 

22 hours ago, Motardo said:

I think it would be difficult. Using Linux, I run the Mac versions on Basilisk (68k Mac emulator), and the Windows versions on DOSBox (DOS emulator). I think modern Mac users would also need Basilisk or DOSBox to run them.

Yes, that's exactly how I run the legacy versions too. Mind you, my Mac can't really be called modern anymore… but I assume Basilisk could still work on modern Macs. Worst-case you'd need to compile it from source, I suppose? DOSBox will definitely work.

 

21 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Would it be possible to put some sort of DOSBox wrapper on them so you can just download them and run it? I hear that's possible, maybe.

It's possible but probably illegal, because that would mean distributing a copy of Windows 3.1. Even if someone does it, I don't think we can allow it to be posted on this forum. Similarly, distributing a ready-to-run Basilisk II image would mean distributing Mac ROM files which are similarly copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, right. Does the Intel Mac BoE in the forum header run like legacy BoE? Basically all I'm looking for is legacy-like BoE that's easy to run on modern Macs, except with the patches. Then I'd host it on the new website.

 

The Living Statue attack pose included with legacy BoE and the attack pose included with OBoE are different. Check it out, you'll see. The arms are positioned differently.

(For those curious, I bought BladesOfExile.com and BladesOfExile.net because they were available and I didn't want some jerk taking them and doing something dumb with them. It feels kinda weird owning a domain named for the original name of the game, but if I think someone in particular can do a better job with it I'm not opposed to transferring ownership or allowing others to co-maintain it.)

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

The Living Statue attack pose included with legacy BoE and the attack pose included with OBoE are different. Check it out, you'll see. The arms are positioned differently.

Huh, you're right; in that case I have no idea where the OBoE one came from. I assume there was some reason for replacing the original but I don't remember what it could be. Maybe something to do with the background removal process?
 

I don't remember clearly but I think the Intel Mac BoE in the forum header is an old OBoE? But it could also be Khoth's version, which would predate OBoE. I'm not sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks. I'm sorry to keep asking questions one at a time, but you mentioned you can send me the Mac graphics without the glitches present in Osnola's attempt. Could you send them, please? I'd like to be thorough.

 

Also, I have some  BoE terrain graphics without credits. Two I'm thinking of are a couple blue-floor mushroom terrains. Are those your work? They're not in my Mab or Tim Farland folders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Thanks. I'm sorry to keep asking questions one at a time, but you mentioned you can send me the Mac graphics without the glitches present in Osnola's attempt. Could you send them, please? I'd like to be thorough.

I tried it just now and it doesn't look like it'll be quite as easy as I first thought. It should still be possible though, as I'm pretty sure a PICT file just stored it in the resource fork, so I can probably copy the Blades of Exile Graphics file several times, delete all but one resource, and change the file and creator codes. Of course, I'd still have to convert it to a different format after that, though…

 

5 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Also, I have some  BoE terrain graphics without credits. Two I'm thinking of are a couple blue-floor mushroom terrains. Are those your work? They're not in my Mab or Tim Farland folders.

If the mushrooms are in a regular arrangement, like crops, then perhaps they could be made by Mistb0rn? Mistb0rn made a lot of graphics at my request for inclusion in OBoE, mainly based on BoA graphics (unfortunately some of them were only posted as JPEGs so I can't really make use of them). I think mushroom crops might be among those.

 

If that's not it, could they be from Exile I? I recall there was one mushrooms graphic in Exile I which didn't exist in Exile III. It was just another variation on the existing ones, but you could see the difference. If this is the one you're thinking of, it's probably a Jeff edit of Andrew Hunter originals.

 

If neither of those fit, then I have no idea.

 

It would be easier to help if I could see the graphics themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was separating out all the graphics we included in those big terrain sheets for an archive organized by artist, but I don't like the specific way I did it and I'm going to start over.

CM, I'll credit those two crop rows of mushrooms to Mistb0rn as you say. Exile 2 has a mushroom terrain that is not present in the other installments in the series, which is where the other one confused me. But what about these?

 

ExileStalagcmtites.png

 

There's a whatever-this-is-called in the graphics sheet with the big credits letters I made, but it was an older, inferior one I made. I don't know who made these. I think the white cave floor one was me, but I don't know about the other. Is that Mistb0rn's? I can see the Andrew Hunter stalagmite it was made from, copied and flipped like the one on the left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been doing some creative work myself, which I hope makes some buttons more intuitive. Here aare some colored scenario editor buttons I made a while back, and some buttons for the inventory pane that I hope make it clearer what they do. (Those would be a part of MIXED.BMP. The top row are the default buttons, and the bottom row are my changes.)

 

EDBTNS.BMP

 

InventoryButtons.png

 

EDIT: Osnola sent me the Mac graphics converted to PNG. I hadn't received/noticed the email they sent me previously. So I have those. Thanks, Osnola!

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/30/2020 at 7:12 PM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

ExileStalagcmtites.png

 

There's a whatever-this-is-called in the graphics sheet with the big credits letters I made, but it was an older, inferior one I made. I don't know who made these. I think the white cave floor one was me, but I don't know about the other. Is that Mistb0rn's? I can see the Andrew Hunter stalagmite it was made from, copied and flipped like the one on the left.

I don't think that was Mistb0rn. If you didn't make it, then it was probably me (using Andrew Hunter graphics as a base, of course).

 

13 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

I've been doing some creative work myself, which I hope makes some buttons more intuitive. Here aare some colored scenario editor buttons I made a while back, and some buttons for the inventory pane that I hope make it clearer what they do. (Those would be a part of MIXED.BMP. The top row are the default buttons, and the bottom row are my changes.)

 

InventoryButtons.png

I dunno, the text is even tinier, and I don't understand why you've added different-coloured backgrounds, but they're not terrible I suppose?

 

13 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

EDIT: Osnola sent me the Mac graphics converted to PNG. I hadn't received/noticed the email they sent me previously. So I have those. Thanks, Osnola!

So you don't need me to extract them with ResEdit after all?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't need them anymore. Thanks though!

 

I suspect it was me who made the stalagctmites, given that they both were made with the same method. I wasn't sure.

 

The different colors are to differentiate the buttons, because they  run against each other in the GUI and I didn't want it to look like a "USEGIVEDrOPINFO" button. The D and I are smaller but the U and G are the same size. I never understood why item commands have a picture of a person instead of a picture of an item, also... I'm not sure I'm going to use the new ones anyway though. Probably not, come to think of it, although I'll offer it to those who prefer it at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I'm going to put it on BladesOfExile.com soon. The website is going to be REALLY simple at first because I'm busy, but it will at least have the patched Windows BoE, a link to and description of the software that lets you play old games on modern Windows, and the collection of scenarios.

 

EDIT: Here it is, just piled in a folder. I plan to leave it in that folder, for future use. Index pages and other content coming eventually, I hope. http://bladesofexile.com/scenario_archive/

 

EDIT 2: Nevermind Edit 2.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want, I can test with cboe: I'm currently trying to finish Deadly Goblins which makes intensive use of Transform Terrain and Transform Rectangle Terrain and it doesn't seem to be a problem. On the other hand, I'm not used to looking at whether or not the item charges match the scenario...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's specifically problematic when trying to lock open doors, put cracked walls back up, and reseal discovered secret doors. But I think it was working before...

 

Here it is: http://bladesofexile.com/scenario_archive/Blades_Of_Exile_Tutorial_BETA_01_by_ADoS.zip

 

It has some bugs and unfinished parts, as well as a situation with dummy spiders which I think could be majorly improved. Also the preset party is not well-made for the scenario right now. I may need help balancing the combat dummies and the preset party. There is a temporary passage at the beginning into the first room for convenience, but that will be closed and the party properly located when it's finished.

 

Thanks for helping! :D

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I removed a wall in the second room with move mountains (x=19, y=13), then I read the tutorial (x=19, y=11) and pressed the button (special 10 and 11): the cracked wall comes back ...

 

Note :
- I have a problem with the man at position x=18, y=8, cboe thinks his personality=-1 => no dialogue.
 

Edited by osnola
Link to comment
Share on other sites

His personality was in fact set to -1 instead of 0. Whoops.

 

The Transform Terrain bug is weird, because as you saw, it works twice in the hallway you enter the room from.

 

I'm about ready to give up on BoE, frustratingly. It's too hard to make things work consistently given what we have, and nobody seems interested in really developing it. I thought this would have worked. BoE was a central part of my childhood but it seems to just be dead...

 

EDIT: CelticMinstrel just told me CBoE's only problem, besides legacy problems, is there is no character editor. I may try to regroup tomorrow and see if I can keep going with the tutorial, then.

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
mope
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

The Transform Terrain bug is weird, because as you saw, it works twice in the hallway you enter the room from.

In cboe, Transform Terrain seems to work normally but indeed, the One Time Dialogs (at x=3,y=7 or x=4,y=7, ...) can be displayed several times and I'm not sure it's normal(*). 

 

Concerning CBoE's, there is a character editor but yes, it uses different formats to save the scenario and the game :-~

 

(*) I just took a look at boe's initial open source code and it seems normal. To forbid it, just test before with IF_SDF, if a flag has been changed

Edited by osnola
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One Time Messages are supposed to appear repeatedly, as long as you don't set them with a flag. I deliberately didn't set a flag, in case the player needed to review the information.

 

So if it uses a different format, can it still run legacy custom scenarios? I think I heard it only runs the default three...

Edited by The Almighty Doer of Stuff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

So if it uses a different format, can it still run legacy custom scenarios? I think I heard it only runs the default three...

Yes, it can run legacy scenarios. On OSX, for instance, it looks for scenarios in "$HOME/Library/Application Support/Blades of Exile/Scenarios/" (legacy or new scenario) ; I have currently ~50 legacy scenarios in this repository and I finished about twenty.

 

The only difference is that if you want to edit a legacy scenario with the BoE Scenario Editor, you can only save the modified scenario as scenario.boes ( the new format ). 

 

Edited by osnola
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/13/2020 at 11:44 AM, Just Fluff said:

So... openboe.com is down, the zip files are not archived on the Wayback Machine, and the magnet link is also down. Anyone got backups? I figure I might as well just host everything on my Google Drive, since I started paying for it and now have like 100 GB of space.

OpenBoE.com is back up now. I have no idea about the magnet link, though - how does that even work? I do still have it set to seeding in my torrent app.

 

On 11/15/2020 at 1:48 PM, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

Also the preset party is not well-made for the scenario right now.

Just saying, but the preset party, and any other newly-made party, needs to be able to play through the tutorial.

 

7 hours ago, osnola said:

Yes, it can run legacy scenarios. On OSX, for instance, it looks for scenarios in "$HOME/Library/Application Support/Blades of Exile/Scenarios/" (legacy or new scenario) ; I have currently ~50 legacy scenarios in this repository and I finished about twenty.

 

The only difference is that if you want to edit a legacy scenario with the BoE Scenario Editor, you can only save the modified scenario as scenario.boes ( the new format ). 

 

This sounds like you're talking about OBoE, but I think ADoS was asking about CBoE?

 

8 hours ago, The Almighty Doer of Stuff said:

So if it uses a different format, can it still run legacy custom scenarios? I think I heard it only runs the default three...

If this is about CBoE, it probably only uses a different format for the saved games. I'm pretty sure it can run legacy custom scenarios. Scenarios created with CBoE still use the .exs extension, so I'm pretty sure the format is 90% identical and only adds some new allowed values in some places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Celtic Minstrel said:

This sounds like you're talking about OBoE, but I think ADoS was asking about CBoE?

I was talking about CBoE: https://github.com/calref/cboe ( or more precisely, about my forked sources https://github.com/fosnola/cboe in which I'm trying to fix some bugs)

Quote

If this is about CBoE, it probably only uses a different format for the saved games. I'm pretty sure it can run legacy custom scenarios. Scenarios created with CBoE still use the .exs extension, so I'm pretty sure the format is 90% identical and only adds some new allowed values in some places.

Yes, CBoE uses a different format for saved games: saved games .exg are now stored as a hierarchy of text files(*); it also tried to load old saved games (but I never tried that). Basically, yes, the new format allows to insert new values in some places.

 

Also, it uses a new format for scenarios: .boes(*) and allows to read legacy .exs scenarios. So, if you play a game, it will only read the .exs scenario data, but if you want to modify an existing scenario, it will offer you to save it as .boes. 

 

(*) there can be decompressed with tar xzf

Edited by osnola
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Celtic Minstrel said:

Just saying, but the preset party, and any other newly-made party, needs to be able to play through the tutorial.

 The tutorial is strictly to teach gameplay mechanics, not to teach players to play well and experiment with their own parties.

 

No new progress. I haven't been feeling OK mentally. I will keep going when I can though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, osnola said:

I was talking about CBoE: https://github.com/calref/cboe ( or more precisely, about my forked sources https://github.com/fosnola/cboe in which I'm trying to fix some bugs)

That's not CBoE, it's OBoE. I realize this is confusing, but CBoE refers to an older version that only works on Windows.

 

5 hours ago, osnola said:

Yes, CBoE uses a different format for saved games: saved games .exg are now stored as a hierarchy of text files(*); it also tried to load old saved games (but I never tried that). Basically, yes, the new format allows to insert new values in some places.

 

Also, it uses a new format for scenarios: .boes(*) and allows to read legacy .exs scenarios. So, if you play a game, it will only read the .exs scenario data, but if you want to modify an existing scenario, it will offer you to save it as .boes. 

 

(*) there can be decompressed with tar xzf

I'm mildly amused that you're explaining to me the file formats that I designed. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To clarify a bit more, the preset party is not a new party. It has level 7 Priest and Mage spells, all alchemical recipes, and other high-level stats, so the player can experiment with them. Also, the party is already in the tutorial scenario to simplify access to it. At least in my copy of legacy BoE that I was hoping would work, there was a note visible on the main menu screen, below the party and to the left of the copyright notice, telling new players they can simply load TUTORIAL.SAV to learn how to play, to make it obvious.

 

I wonder, though, if the bugs might have actually been present in legacy BoE. I don't think the item charges bug was, though... But maybe I could use Transform Terrain or something instead for the door, crumbling wall, and secret door.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Celtic Minstrel said:

OpenBoE.com is back up now. I have no idea about the magnet link, though - how does that even work? I do still have it set to seeding in my torrent app.


Yay thank you! I'll update my sig to indicate my link is a backup.

The magnet link: lemme try again.

Edit:
 

% aria2c 'magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d5356f060c104e9fd1dbf7a23fe348c6c26897da'

11/17 12:40:48 [NOTICE] Downloading 1 item(s)

11/17 12:40:48 [NOTICE] IPv4 DHT: listening on UDP port 6952

11/17 12:40:48 [NOTICE] IPv4 BitTorrent: listening on TCP port 6961

11/17 12:40:48 [NOTICE] IPv6 BitTorrent: listening on TCP port 6961
[#5f2fca 0B/0B CN:0 SD:0 DL:0B]       


I think the problem may be on my end. N/M.

Edited by Just Fluff
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...