Geneforge 5 - reputation/faction guide (complete/corrected)

[mikeprichard]

I'm getting ready for a playthrough of G5, and was wondering if there's a guide to rewards (gear from quests, available special areas, etc.) and consequences for having a certain reputation and/or joining a certain faction similar to Slarty's excellent G4 guide (http://minmax.ermarian.net/g4/g4q.html). I've found bits and pieces of info throughout the forums (e.g. about the secret tunnel area that requires you to say you'll consider joining a certain faction), but nothing that really brings it all together.

 

Anyway, I expect there's no such thing, but any specific min-max munchkiny powergaming advice for G5 would still be appreciated. (For roleplaying purposes, I'm considering the Trakovites for the endgame, but I'm still interested in how to game the factions/reputation for the MOST LEWT.) Cheers!

[Randomizer]

The Synergy style Item List has the information buried into everything else, but no one has ever gone through to extract it and examine what you should do to maximize rewards.

[mikeprichard]

Thanks Randomizer, that's what I figured. Compared to G4, it does seem there isn't as much need (or option) in G5 to plan large changes in reputation in order to get as many available quest rewards as possible, so I guess a middle-of-the-road-ish reputation with good leadership will basically get you through G5 until you finally need to pick a faction. Anyway, I'll work with the Synergy-style list and the walkthroughs and see how it goes. Later -

[mikeprichard]

In case anyone else is interested: I went through the Synergy Style Item List and searched for conversation options/quests/etc. that affect (or are affected by) reputation, and below is the excerpted (and in several places, compared to the Synergy list, corrected) result. (The player starts the game with a "neutral" Shaper/rebel reputation of 100, with reputation of more than 100 "pro-Shaper" and less than 100 "pro-rebel.")

 

If you want to get the most quests/conversation options/loot before finally joining a faction in G5, you should stay close to and a little under reputation 100 (with a Leadership of at least 10). If you then want to join the Taygen faction, you can get a +10 reputation boost from Shaper Conason, which should give you more than enough to qualify. To join Alwan's faction, you only need a reputation of 100 or more, so if you've "saved" a smaller reputation-changing conversation option (+2 or +3), that should get you what you need to qualify. To join any of the other three factions (Litalia/Astoria/Ghaldring), you'll qualify with any rebel reputation (slight or otherwise). Happy powergamin'!

 

 

z0 - Pacification Field

Mehken - reputation question +2/0/-2

 

z1 - Town Minallah

Roamer going rogue - kill it/calm it/give it time - reputation +2/0/-2

Captain Valenta - reputation question +3/0/-3

Twixx - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

 

z2 - Town Isenwood's Spire

Agent Aluhra - reputation question +2/-2

Shaper Rawal - betray/don’t betray Mehken - reputation +3/0/-3

 

z3 - Foundry Promenade

Krog and 4 thahds - kill/let leave - reputation +3/-3

 

z6 - Foundry Core East

Mehken - reputation question +1/0/-1

 

z7 - Foundry Core

Mehken as leaving after final fight - reputation question +3/0/-3

 

z9 - Whitespire Pass

Mehken leaves - reputation question +3/0/-3

 

z11 - Town Mera

Lel - will talk about meeting in fens only if reputation less than 100

Agent Micheline - betray Lel as Trakovite - reputation +3

Agent Micheline - Quest: Info for Micheline - quest completion - reputation +3/-2

Agent Micheline - Quest: Trakovite Lair - quest completion - reputation +3/-2

 

z12 - Town Haria-Kel

Astoria - Quest: Aid Penta - can get quest only if reputation less than 103

Astoria - can join faction only if reputation less than 103

 

z16 - Infested Crossroad

Sgt. Herne - tell him to force wounded thahds to fight/let wounded thahds return home - reputation +3/-3

 

z17 - Town Kaz

Labaton - will trade only if reputation minus leadership less than 100

Labaton - Quest: Papers for Kaz (Helft papers) - quest completion - reputation -3

 

z20 - Below Nodye Pass

Servile refugees and Felik - kill/let escape - reputation +3/-3

 

z21 - Nodye Pass

Captain Kellan - betray tunnel - reputation +3

 

z22 - Town Penta

Greta - refuse to talk/ask to join rebellion - reputation +2/-2

Arango - Quest: Shaper Papers - can get quest only if reputation minus leadership less than 97; sell at least one research note - reputation -2

Learned Dominic - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

Learned Dominic - will talk about Shadow Road only if reputation minus leadership less than 101 and helping Astoria

 

z30 - Western Okavano

8 rebel warrior serviles - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

 

z31 - Southwestern Okavano

Parl and Kaz warriors - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

Parl and Kaz warriors - help fight alphas but say no friend of rebels/help fight alphas and say friend of rebels - reputation +1/-2

Rebel warriors - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

 

z33 - Okavano Barrier

Intelligent Ornk - attack/tell to stay - reputation +3/-3

 

z34 - Town Trakovite Haven

Caretaker Eloise - attack (via conversation) - reputation +3

Caretaker Eloise - Quest: Reinhart the Trakovite - can get quest only if reputation minus leadership less than 95

Parsel - reputation question +2/-2

Litalia - reputation question +2/-2

Litalia - Quest: The Trakovite Hunter - can get quest only if reputation less than 100; quest completion - reputation -2

Litalia - if currently allied with a different faction, can join faction only if reputation less than 100

 

z39 - Hatra Ruins

Reinhart and Addison - attack Reinhart alone/attack Reinhart if Addison helps/attack Addison - reputation +3/+2/-2

 

z41 - Town Perikalia

Warzana - reputation question +2/0/-2

Preva - Quest: Help for Serviles - quest completion - reputation -3

Commander Illyara - reputation question +3/-2

Commander Illyara - turn in Preva - reputation +3

Commander Illyara - Quest: East Field Bugs - can get quest only if reputation plus leadership more than 99

 

z42 - Town Stormhold

Pepoy - Quest: Servile Spy - reputation -3

Alwan - reputation question +3/-3

Alwan - Quest: Journey to the Drakons - quest completion - truth/lie - reputation +3/-3

Alwan - Quest: Control Core B - can get quest only if reputation plus half leadership more than 102 and completed Journey to the Drakons quest by telling the truth or by lying with leadership of 10 or more; quest completion - reputation +3

Alwan - can join faction only if reputation more than 99

 

z45 - Fort Defiance

Shaper Alexie - Quest: Return Shaper Papers - sell at least one research note - reputation +3; give Helft papers - reputation +3

 

z46 - Abandoned Farms

Sage Olipha - reputation question +2/0/-2

 

z47 - Mountain Crossroad

Alpha 17 - when deciding what to do with it - reputation +2/-2

 

z48 - Fort Vengeance

Cyprien - reputation question +2/-2

Guardian Genzleri - turn in Tima - reputation +2

Guardian Genzleri - kill Sage Olipha for illegal shaping - reputation +2

 

z51 - Fort Rockfall

Commander Rossi - Quest: Amulet Recovery - quest completion - reputation +3

 

z53 - Western Wasteland

Ravass and patrol - attack (via conversation: “I’ve changed my mind. Prepare to die, rebel!”) - reputation +2

 

z58 - Outside Gazaki-Uss

Ukri – will trade only if say support rebels - reputation question +2/-2

 

z60 - Town Gazaki-Uss

Greta - if have reputation more than 100 and ask her to vouch for you with rebels - reputation -6

Mehken - Quest: Lethia Pass - can get quest only if reputation minus half leadership less than 99

Phyllida - Quest: Phyllida's Amulet - can get quest only if reputation less than 97; quest completion - reputation -3

Ghaldring - reputation question +3/0/-3

Ghaldring - Quest: Break the Line - can get quest only if reputation minus half leadership less than 100 and agreed to fight Khressia

Ghaldring - can join faction only if reputation less than 103

 

z63 - Dera Bridge

Borun - reputation question +2/-2

 

z64 - Town Zephyr Oasis

Denna - Quest: Free Camp Dranir - can get quest only if reputation less than 94

Federa - Quest: Camp East Alpha - quest completion - truth/lie about Genta - reputation +3/-3

Commander Pritz - Quest: Drakon Sighting - quest completion - truth/lie about seeing drakon, regardless of whether killed Ellek'Sss - reputation +2/-2

Sage Taygen - Quest: Reclaim Camp Dranir - can get quest (and therefore join faction) only if reputation plus half leadership more than 107; quest completion - reputation +3

Sage Taygen - Quest: Aid Platano - quest completion - reputation +3

 

z66 - Oasis Fields

Sage Lara - when asked about your current reputation, she will give one of 5 answers:

1) If more than 108: You have earned the respect of the Shapers. The rebels will fear and mistrust you. And they are correct to do so.

2) If 102-108: You lean toward service of the Shapers, though your loyalty is not absolute. The rebels are nervous about you.

3) If 98-101: You are balanced on the knife edge, leaning neither toward the rebels nor the Shapers. A dangerous place to be, a place without allies.

4) If 91-97: You lean toward service of the rebels, though your loyalty is not absolute. The Shapers are nervous about you.

5) If 90 or less: You have earned the respect of the rebels. The Shapers will fear and mistrust you. And they are correct to do so.

 

z67 - Lethia Pass

Shaper Conason - if ask him to vouch for you with Shapers - reputation +10

 

z68 - White Wastes

Camp Dranir - destroy rebels/destroy Shapers - reputation +3/-3

 

z70 - Dera South Shore

Ellek'Sss - will train in magic and shaping only if reputation minus third of leadership less than 98

[mikeprichard]

I've been updating/correcting the above list (extracted/edited from the Synergy Style Item List) during my playthrough, but could someone smart please look at the game scripts (or explain in idiot layman terms how I could do that myself) to check the exact reputation change values for the below two events? (For the Alexie event: the first time you give her any research notes, you get a +3 in reputation, but there's a separate reputation boost for giving her the Helft papers, the value of which is unspecified in the Synergy list.) Thanks!

 

z34 - Town Trakovite Haven

Litalia - Quest: The Trakovite Hunter - reputation -?

 

z45 - Fort Defiance

Shaper Alexie - Quest: Return Shaper Papers - bonus for Helft papers - reputation +?

[Triumph]

I downloaded the G5 demo just to see: to check the scripts, open the folder for G5, then open the Geneforge 5 Files folder, then open the Scripts folder.

 

For your first question, you'd open the file z34Ttrakovdlg.txt and poke around. (All the interesting dialogue and reputation stuff is in the files with dlg). It looks to me like actions / statements that affect reputation are followed by " inc_flag(100,0, X) " where the X is replaced by a number (e.g. 3, or -2). So, for future reference, you could go to a file, search for instances of " flag(100 ", and easily find all the reputation-change points. I think. Anyway, reporting the death of Addison has a -2 effect on your reputation.

 

Using a process similar to the above, I found that giving Alexie the notes from Helft has a +3 effect on your reputation.

 

Note: I have a Mac, so the exact steps you take to find the game scripts might be slightly different on Windows, but they'll be very similar.

[mikeprichard]

Thanks a lot, Triumph - that's really helpful! With this tip, I should be able to fix everything in the list by the time I finish the playthrough. Cheers!

[mikeprichard]

I just saw this was pinned to the G5 Strategy Central thread. Don't I feel useful!

[questionmarket superscrip]

You need to look for "100,0". Just looking for "100" will turn up all sorts of global variables.

[mikeprichard]

Ah, I get it - and searching in the "...dlg" script files for "gf(100,0" will show global flags(?) related to reputation that serve as "conditions"/prerequisites for dialogue options/quests/etc.; "get_stat(20)" also appears to refer to checks for leadership, from the context. Anyway, I'm still updating the list based on this info and what I verify as I play, but hope to have it 100% complete and correct in the next week or so. Thanks again all!

[Kelandon]

In that context, gf() is "get flag" -- it checks the value of the flag. get_stat() is as you say.

[mikeprichard]

That makes sense, then - thanks, Kelandon.

[questionmarket superscrip]

also note that, unfortunately, "gf(" will not turn up all instances of that command, because it also appears in a different form in certain dialogue trees. IIRC, that other form is "GET_SDF " -- and the flag array is referenced differently too: IIRC you end up with "GET_SDF 100 0" instead.

[mikeprichard]

Thanks, Slarty - as you said earlier, since "100,0" refers directly to reputation, I've searched only on that parameter for purposes of making/verifying the above list. It's then used in the scripts in a couple different ways ("inc_flag(100,0,X)" refers to a change in reputation by X (which can be either positive or negative); "gf(100,0)" refers to a check of the player's existing reputation, which is sometimes used in an equation together with leadership, referred to as "get_stat(20)" in those equations).

 

I still want to confirm a couple things in the final zones, but I'm confident the above is now 99.9% correct per the scripts and what I discovered during my game. Over the next few days, I'll have the list edited to (hopefully) 100% accuracy.

[questionmarket superscrip]

Just wanting to be clear -- "100,0" will not find every potential reference to stuff done flag 100,0 -- because of the form listed above. I don't know if that's relevant here but it might be.

[mikeprichard]

Righto - I checked (almost) all the scripts for both "100,0" and "100 0" (intentionally omitting the "SDF" etc. to ensure I didn't miss any references), and it turns out there are still only the two types of references to reputation mentioned above that ever turn up. So between that and verifying all actual in-game instances where the text box indicates a change in reputation, I don't think anything's being missed. Anyway, I think I'm about done, but if anyone finds something to add/correct based on their own research, please let me know!

[mikeprichard]

I'm doing another playthrough of G5, following my old rep guide here, but I now have reason to believe Litalia's "The Trakovite Hunter" quest actually requires a reputation of less than 99 (rather than less than 100) to start. To confirm, can anyone tell me how I should interpret the below conversation reputation requirement in the relevant z34Trakovdlg.txt file? (I know I need to key on the "dep_on_sdf 100 0 99", but I don't know exactly what that means - "sdf 100 0" refers to the reputation flag, and "99" is the player's current reputation value, but from the context, it seems like the "dep_on_sdf" taken together signifies a requirement of either "99 or less", or "less than 99". So - which is it?) Cheers!

 

question = "I am interested in becoming a Trakovite.";

text1 = "She looks into your eyes, trying to gauge your sincerity. _Then I will give you a chance to prove yourself. I have learned that I have to be far more careful when deciding with whom I should ally myself._";

text2 = "_To prove yourself, you must first show that you have the strength to do what needs to be done._";

text3 = "_Your words and deeds have shown you to have at least some sympathy for the ways of the Shapers. We could not trust you._";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99

[questionmarket superscrip]

DEP_ON_SDF is used heavily in various games, so the easy way to figure this out would be to look for instances of

 

DEP_ON_SDF x y 0

 

or

 

DEP_ON_SDF x y 1

 

If the 0 form exists, it's probably a greater than cutoff (= less than or equal to). If it doesn't, but the 1 form exists, it's probably a greater than or equal to cutoff (= less than).

[mikeprichard]

Thanks, Slarty; I might try to dig around a bit. In the meantime, is there any way in G5 to view your player's current reputation value (either in the save game files or through an in-game "Shift-D" code)?

[questionmarket superscrip]

A lot of the games had a shift-D code that would do it -- sdf x y, IIRC. But it was removed at some point, and/or I forgot the correct syntax for it at some point

[mikeprichard]

And here I thought you knew everything - that's one demerit!

 

I haven't yet found any instances of "DEP_ON_SDF x y 0" in the G5 files (having searched about a dozen of the script files), but I recall there were a few reputation checks in my above list that I wasn't smart enough to confirm for myself in the script files two years back, as they involved this "DEP_ON_SDF" formula rather than the more straightforward "gf(100,0)..." formulation when it came to reputation value requirements in dialogs. So, as I'm now inclined to do again, I simply trusted Randomizer's sage judgment in interpreting the above Litalia example as "less than or equal to" rather than "less than" (i.e. "DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99" = "less than or equal to 99" or "less than 100" as in Randomizer's G5 Synergy list). Another example from the T12Dhariadlg.txt file (for the Astoria dialog's reputation requirements in order to join her faction, listed by Randomizer and copied by me above as "less than 103") is below.

 

begintalknode 124;

state = 86;

nextstate = 87;

condition = 1;

question = "I want to renounce my old alliance. I want to serve you.";

text1 = "She looks into your eyes, trying to gauge your sincerity. _Then swear again, on your life. But know this. Betrayal has consequences._";

text2 = "(If you agree, the faction you agreed to help earlier will turn their backs on you. There is no going back to them. Be sure that this is what you want.)";

text3 = "_Your words and deeds have shown you to be loyal to the Shapers. I could not trust you._";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 102;

 

Very long story short, in the absence of specific evidence to the contrary, I'm inclined to think Randomizer's/my original interpretation here is correct after all. The only reason I thought it might not be correct is because I'm now (in my standard insane obsessive fashion) keeping track of my current reputation using the above list, assuming the player starts at 100, and had thought I was already at 99 when I tried to get Litalia's "Trakovite Hunter" quest, but couldn't - the only way I could was by first using her dialog option to reduce my rep by another 2. So it's probably more likely I somehow missed tracking a +1 rep point for my current player at some point, which meant I was really at 100 when I first spoke with Litalia. Aaaaaanyway... carry on.

[Randomizer]

In Oasis Fields (z66), Sage Lara does a reputation check on whether you are above/below certain numbers. You could check how it does it there.

[mikeprichard]

Thanks, Randomizer; I'm going to continue to check my character against this list (I'm assuming I'm now at 98 rep, having been at 100 before speaking to Litalia, then choosing her -2 dialog option), but since I'll almost definitely end up doing other reputation-changing quests along the way, I'm not sure if I'll be able to confirm this with 100% accuracy. I'll post back if I find anything more on this, though.

[mikeprichard]

My rep is at least 104 (probably 105), and I'm still able to join Litalia's faction by successfully following the dialog options starting with "I am ready to join the Trakovites" after completing the canister cache quest, despite my/Randomizer's list indicating she requires a rep of less than 100 for you to join. This is another of the few places in the list where the text in what I believe is the related script file entry notes "action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99", so Randomizer, is there a particular reason why you interpreted this text the way you did? Even though flag 100,0 (reputation) is involved, it doesn't seem to be working at all the way we originally thought when it's expressed this way. Of course, you only posted the Synergy list 7 years ago, so I'm sure you remember...

[questionmarket superscrip]

Does "I am ready to join the Trakovites" actually have an SDF check? The line you posted above with the SDF check is a different line ("I am interested in becoming a Trakovite"). This may be one of those cases where you need a certain rep to trigger the beginning of the conversation, but once you have done that, you can complete it later (even with a different rep). Not that uncommon in Geneforge actually.

[mikeprichard]

The full text of the entry in T34Ttrakovdlg.txt is below; it doesn't have a reputation (100,0) "condition", but the "action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99" does appear at the bottom, whatever that means - and that's what I'm assuming Randomizer focused on when initially saying joining her faction requires a rep of less than 100. However, she only actually says lines "text3" and "text4" in her next screen after I say my line (text1, text2, and text5 don't ever seem to appear in my game), so there's some weirdness going on here I don't fully understand. The only thing I can think of that would make at least some sense would be your idea, but I'm not sure whether I'd actually started this conversation line before this (and I don't have a save in a place where I can check for sure). But almost every other rep check simply involves the "condition = ...gf(100,0)..." arrangement in the script files, which is clear, while the resulting rep increases/decreases use "inc_flag(100,0,X)", which is also easy - so the list should still be mostly OK.

 

begintalknode 187;

state = 170;

nextstate = 190;

condition = gf(34,9) == 4 && gf(100,11) == 0 && gf(100,3) != 2 && gf(100,4) != 2 && gf(100,5) != 2 && gf(100,2) != 2 && gf(100,6) < 2;

question = "I am ready to join the Trakovites.";

text1 = "_Then know this. I will ask you to perform acts of great ..._ She pauses. _They will be difficult deeds. They will do great harm, to some. But they will prove to the Shaper Council that they cannot continue as they have._";

text2 = "_We will prove they must change. If that means pulling their home down around them, we will do so, in the hope of a better future._";

text3 = "_I will not require you to stop Shaping while you carry out my missions. I am too practical for that. Victory is too necessary for such moral purity. Your path will be difficult enough as it is._";

text4 = "_Will you follow me? Will you trust me and do what has to be done?_";

text5 = "(If you agree, you will join Litalia's faction and be on one of the paths to winning the game. You can leave this path later, but not without penalty. Make sure that this is what you want.)";

action = DEP_ON_SDF 100 0 99;

[Randomizer]

I don't remember exactly what I did. I do know I once kept track of my reputation early in the game and compared it to an early reputation check to get a quest from a Rebel faction NPC.

 

 

[questionmarket superscrip]

IIRC:

"action" occupies basically the same role in the node definition as "code" -- it affects what happens when you choose the conversation option, but it cannot affect whether or not that option is available to choose in the first place.

 

Correspondingly, DEP_ON_SDF only affects what lines of text are displayed. It doesn't affect whether or not you get the dialogue option in the first place.

 

As I said, the conditional check for reputation must occur earlier (or not at all).

[mikeprichard]

I did some more digging in the script file, and found apparently there's only a reputation condition (of less than 100) to join Litalia's faction if you're currently allied with another faction (I'm not in my current playthrough); otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a rep requirement (beyond the indirectly related requirement to start the Trakovite Hunter quest). I've corrected the list above to note this. As for my original confusion with the Trakovite Hunter quest, it does in fact require a rep of less than 100 per the script file dialog entry, and not less than 99 as I suspected yesterday, so the list is still correct on that. Thanks again to all for the tips!

 

begintalknode 207;

state = 185;

nextstate = 70;

condition = gf(100,0) <= 99;

question = "I swear on my life that I want to serve you. I renounce my old alliance.";

text1 = "You expect something more dramatic. A shock or a bolt of lightning or something. Nothing so spectacular happens. However, you suspect that word of your action will soon filter back to your former master.";

text2 = "Litalia nods. _You have chosen wisely. Our path is filled with peril. We need to make sure there is no going back to where you were before. Now then. Let us discuss the future of the Trakovites._";