A:EftP - Respawns

[Earth]

So I revisited in Final Gauntlet again and was surprised to see that there are respawns too. Not sure why Jeff added respawns there too but since those respawns give more exp than others it can be used to get party to level 35 or higher if bothers.

 

Undead-respawns near ToM are very regular, everytime I go to gather herbs (every 3rd day) I fight against those undeads.

 

Other respawns don't give much exp etc unless manages to encounter group of thieves near Fort Spire or Sliths (Island Fort etc).

[The Reverend]

Yeah, after completing all three of the final quests, my party decided that they'd like to retire to the surface. So, they headed back through the final guantlet and were quite surprised to have to refight all the monsters in the final area. I guess they just decided to throw my party a little retirement bash ...

[CoarseDragon]

Do the undead by ToM give good EXP for a party about level 15? I've been to the tower but have not fought much around the area.

[Earth]

my party at lvl 34 gets ~2 exp so yes.

[Earth]

I find it bit weird that that Deathcurse Horror always drops Ghostly Blade and Resurrection Scroll, both are quite valuable items so just doing that battle everyday gets alot money.

[Kestral]

Ok, noobie question perhaps:

 

How do I tell how much time is passing or has passed, and how does that allow me to know when monsters in a certain area will respawn (or be likely to respawn)?

 

(I've played to lvl-15 so far on hard, and haven't noticed any indication of time or days passing. My party is not, super optimized, and currently I'm able to clear up to the bosses in most of the dungeons I can get to, but many of the boss fights are too hard. I often go back to various places looking for respawns so I can get a few more xp and hopefully lvl up and be able to finish some quests that require beating bosses.)

[Earth]

respawns and herbs get back around once a week, some respawns get sooner back some get later, since your party is at lvl 15 then you have enuf to kill and quests to do w/o need of respawns.

[Kestral]

I guess my question is "What defines a day or a week in Avernum?" How does the time mechanic work?

 

Is there somewhere where I can check the date in the game? Is it keeping track of how many "days" my party has been adventuring?

 

Does time only pass when walking on the overland map, or does part of a day go by every time I take a turn, even in combat?

 

Thanks so much!

 

(Yeah, I should probably be able to beat the slith island fort boss and the evil spider hive-queen thing and the ghosts at the bottom of the spiral...but as I said my party is not optimal. Mage has 10 points in tool use, priest has 10 points in arcane lore, one character is a dedicated archer, and my warrior was pumping repost skill and using a shield for a while and only at lvl 12 or so realized that he needed to switch gears and become a dual wielder. >_< And I'm far too stubborn to turn the difficulty down to normal after getting this far on hard. =P)

[Jerakeen]

I guess the days all run together when you never see the sun. In the original trilogy, there was a day counter, but it seems to be absent in AEFTP unfortunately. However, I'm fairly sure that time passes faster in the outdoors than in towns, if that helps you. I'm not at all sure that the passage of time actually matters as far as dungeon respawns go; leaving and returning immediately might be enough to trigger them (or at least a random check).

 

Edit: A quick test with the bat cave seems to confirm this. It looks like each (non-boss) monster has a small chance to respawn when you enter the dungeon, regardless of how much (or little) time has passed. I don't know whether there might be an eventual limit for each one.

[Kestral]

Cool. I will probably do some tests entering/leaving a few different dungeons a bunch of times to see what happens, whether there are diminishing returns, etc.

 

I've definitely seen respawns when going between different levels in the same dungeon as well.

 

Update:

First basic test using Slith Temple.

1.)Cleared out first floor/lower level.

2.)Left the temple and immediately re-entered it from the world map 10 times in succession: Found 1 Slith Warrior, 1 Frozen Worm, 3 Sliths as respawns.

3.)Repeated (2) four more times: All four times I found the Warrior and Worm respawned, and either 2 or 3 Sliths seemingly at random but always in the same locations.

4.)Tried going back and forth between the upper level and lower level of the temple 7 times. This resulted in zero respawns on the lower level.

 

--> Working hypothesis: Each dungeon has many "only once" monsters and a few "respawning" monsters. If a monster is marked as respawning, it has a chance(probably close to 15% based on my small sample size) of respawning each time the party enters the dungeon. Once it has respawned, it will remain until killed again.

 

[Kestral]

Woah! Something just occurred to me.

 

The game clearly keeps track of time somehow, but there's no indication of when significant time periods/milestones have passed.

 

But there *IS* the periodic auto-save.

 

Perhaps the auto saves happen on the same time boundaries that other things happen on.

"Has it been 10 auto-saves since the last time I visited that herb patch?"

Worth testing this as well.

 

 

Update:

Haven't had time to test this yet.

I want to try and see if I can quantify how often herb patches regenerate, either in terms of "how many times have I left and re-entered the overland map" or "how many quick-saves have I waited for on the overland map".

[Earth]

my last herbs gathering was 15th day (main save and did visit to Final Gauntlet too) and after that no herbs and I have checked herb patch near Bargha (actually Giants Castle) past 3 days and no herbs there and saturday checked patch near ToM and autosave saved game but I didn't save game cause ToM patch was empty too.

[Kestral]

Originally Posted By: Earth Empires

my last herbs gathering was 15th day (main save and did visit to Final Gauntlet too) and after that no herbs and I have checked herb patch near Bargha (actually Giants Castle) past 3 days and no herbs there and saturday checked patch near ToM and autosave saved game but I didn't save game cause ToM patch was empty too.

Can you tell us exactly what you mean by "15th day" and "past 3 days"? Are you talking about real-life days?

[Earth]

15th day this month and upto 30 mins ago no herbs back but those wandering Giants (very rare encounter respawn, met them like 5 times and I've been collecting herbs quite a while) near that herb patch had come back and real time not gametime since its not determinable.

[Earth]

Quite weird, herbs hadn't grow back since 15th day until I went to clean Final Gauntlet again (and went from Erika's tower to near Khot's lair and killed all random encounters) and after I went back to Bargha and checked Mandrake-patch all herb patches had grown back. Apparently needs to play a bit (more than wandering from Bargha to patch) during waiting herbs to grow back instead just waiting.

[Slawbug]

Spiderweb games Avernum games have NEVER had any real-time elements whatsoever.

 

In other words, the amount of real time that passes, is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to everything, including herb regrowth.

[Nioca]

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S

Spiderweb games have NEVER had any real-time elements whatsoever.

You mean aside from the Geneforge and Avadon exploration modes (that is, when you're walking around outside combat)?

[Randomizer]

Avernum time is based on moves.

[Nioca]

Originally Posted By: Randomizer

Avernum time is based on moves.

I'm aware of this, but he didn't say Avernum. He said Spiderweb Games. And when someone uses BIG CAPITAL LETTERS to emphasize their point, it becomes way too tempting to contradict them.

[Slawbug]

Uh... whoops. Yeah, aside from those walkabout modes. Let me emphasize this point by saying that I was COMPLETELY wrong.

[Earth]

previously I gathered herbs once every 3rd day w/o moving during those days but not since 15th day, not that it matters since its short trip to Final Gauntlet and back.

[Kestral]

Re-spawns in dungeons are based on how often you've entered the dungeon from the overland map.

 

(confirmed this with tests on 4 or 5 mid-level dungeons - didn't do any serious test on respawns in dungeon floors other than the first floor of each)

 

Intending to do some tests on herb growth involving:

1.) Determining how many times i have to press space bar between auto saves on the overland map.

2.) Holding down space-bar on the over-land map and counting the number of auto saves that go by before the patch I'm standing next to regenerates.

3.) If it's not working, trying to enter some locations and then return to the overland map repeatedly to see if that influences herb regrowth.

 

Haven't had time to actually try this all weekend though. Maybe tonight or tomorrow morning before work I can get an hour to myself. =P If anyone else tries something similar please post your results, I'd be very interested in them.

 

Update:

Auto save is every 100 steps.

The herb regeneration is somewhere between 2000 and 5000 steps based on one test so far.

[Earth]

Gathered herbs yesterday and went to check those today, not back, went to Final Gauntlet and after returning herbs had come back.

 

Those undead respawns near ToM I haven't seen in a while (not that I care about those since they don't give much exp).

[Kestral]

Update: (using PC version from steam)

* Auto save is every 100 steps.

* Holding down space bar give me about 6.3 auto-saves/minute.

* Taking energetic herbs then immediately putting a cup on the space-bar for 4 minutes did not cause regeneration.

* Putting the cup back on the space bar for 2 more minutes did cause regeneration.

 

CONCLUSION:

Herb regeneration takes place after between 2500 and 3750 steps on the travel map. No info yet on whether steps inside locations are counted equally.

 

 

Also sill unknown what mechanic is used for the respawning of monster groups on the travel map. Need to confirm:

1.) whether they will respawn just by holding down space-bar on the travel map (like herb patch regeneration).

2.) whether they will respawn if you repeatedly enter/exit a location (like the respawning monsters in a dungeon if you enter the dungeon repeatedly).

[Earth]

today no herbs and I fought against thoe wandering Giants near that patch (2-3 rounds) and went normally to Sulfras castle and had 1 fight on my way there (4-5 rounds due it was against basilisks and Gazers) and had all possible battles at FG and killed DC Lich few rounds before Deathcure would have activated (battle took longer today than yesterday due those damn giants managed to stun my fighters few times and healing was needed too cause BW Giant came to pummel my casters).

 

Bit off-topic but I just wish Haste would be restored what it was before A6 since enemy casters always do Battle Frenzy and on tough battles it can be tide turner.

[Earth]

Saturday I fought against respawned group of thiefs and loot I got was gold necklace and 1 spiritual herb so basically useless loot.

 

1 day I fought against Gremlins when I was on my way to Fort Remote to do Final Gauntlet-battle and when I got out of FR on my way back after battles I again fought against group of Gremlins.

 

Haven't seen respawned Giants near Giants castle since .......... and last respawns near that area (other side of river) have been Neph warriors (no idea why there).

 

Weirdest respawned random encounter was big group of Sliths (those tougher ones) on my way to Almeria (usually I meet bats or worms there).