Kyshakk Koan Mod. Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Not War. It feels like Jeff is starting to choose an almost "easier" path for story lines. I still love and purchase Jeff's games, and the stories are excellent, just not as much as they could be and were. I think from the numerous topics on which geneforge game is the series favorite, the first one is heavily the chosen. The story was great, having choices, mystery (about the geneforge and Sholai and whatnot), and very unique. The second was the same way, and very different from the first game. With the third one, the story was a war, and I feel it makes it much weaker in several ways. The war in the third game severely limited the potential for factions, and its surprising Jeff found room for them in the 5th game. It makes the ending very predictable, and it cuts out much of the mystery and discovery that made G1 so much more fun. Jeff games aren't graphic-intensive fyora-exploding fun necessarily, it can feel repetitive at times, and it is clear why people often say the story is what makes Jeff's games. By making it so predictable and less exciting, it really seems to cut enjoyment out of the games. And it has been war for the past few games. The series firsts have been pretty unique, but when the past 3 Geneforge releases, and recent Avernum release, it feels like it is the same thing, just a war you fight in with little wonder of what is going to happen in the story as a whole. While releasing war-story based sequels, Avadon was released with a war-story as well. Certainly, Jeff has done a fantastic job keeping the war-stories unique and good, but it would be very refreshing for some classic fantasy full of wonder and uniqueness. I'm not bashing the stories at all. But I'm wondering if anyone feels the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I can understand your thoughts. I happened to think that avernum 1, was very full of intrigue while avernum 4-6 were basically averdon, which is not bad at all. In fact i would say that avernum 4-6 captured a much more diverse style that jeff wrote. They really reminded me of icewind dale adventuring days. Geneforge 3 in my opinion was a mix of intrigue and war, there was a war, but it was still just a lot of the old games in there. Geneforge 4 and 5 were both all war like you said though. In my opinion the one that does it best...avadon. But opinions can be very varied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Originally Posted By: Death Knight I happened to think that... avernum 4-6 were basically averdon, which is not bad at all. Avernum 4, 5, and 6 all preceded Avadon, soooo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I disagree with the basic premise. The Geneforge storyline built up to war, and that war became the core of the series, but the other games aren't so focused. A2 is about war, but also exploration, quests, artifact retrieval, and saving the day. The enemy serves mostly as a faceless, implacable force that must be stopped. A6 uses the sliths very similary; again, it's not a conflict with two sides so much as enemies that must be slaughtered. Avadon doesn't have war at all, yet, just intrigue, and we'll have to wait for the sequels. —Alorael, who can only conclude that you don't like Geneforge's war story. That's fine, but it's not hugely reflective of greater trends on Spiderweb storytelling. The real trend is in making choices between sides in conflict, which may be something you don't like and which really is here to stay, but those conflicts are usually smaller and quieter, if just as nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Avadon is the prelude to war. The first steps to stir up divisions between weak allies, encourage attacks around the edges, and most importantly remove Avadon the enforcer by eliminating Hands. Much as Geneforge 2 foreshadowed the war in Geneforge 3 you see the stirrings of rebellion as Taowan encourages others to strike out. Avernum 1 was the prelude to the Empire/Avernum war that Erika foresees. The assassination of Hawthorne was done to cause it before the Empire has time to build up its forces. Avernum 2 has the war but the Empire after early victories is trapped near the Portal and can't push forward into the heavily settled regions. Avernum 6 is the next Slith/Avernum war. You could easily have it continue into another game if Jeff hadn't wanted to end the series and kill off so many continuing NPCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Dantius Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Originally Posted By: Death Knight I happened to think that... avernum 4-6 were basically averdon, which is not bad at all. Avernum 4, 5, and 6 all preceded Avadon, soooo... Jeff is a Time Lord, duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Triumph Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Maybe there an issue of phrasing. Not every recent Spiderweb game has been about WAR, exactly, but (war and/or cutthroat political intrigue leading to war - and after all, someone has said war is an extension of politics) has been central to plots of G3, G4, G5, A5 and A6, and Avadon. Those games revolve around dealing with (war and/or cutthroat political intrigue) more than earlier Spiderweb games, with tend to deal with more exploration / investigation of mysteries (A1, A2, A3, G1, G2), or just have a totally different kind of plot (Nethergate /:R). That isn't to say elements of war / intrigue are wholly absent from the earlier games, nor that later games have no exploration, but the emphasis of plot and atmosphere has shifted. There is a continuum, perhaps, and Jeff's earlier games tend to be one end, and his more recent games tend to be at the other end. (A:EFTP counts with the earlier group, of course, since it is a remake.) I will join the wishing of Mod. and Slarty, in terms of preference. /twocents Edit: just realized I forgot all about A4. I have no idea where it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unflappable Drayk Death Knight Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I still think that regardless of those mentioned, avadon was my favorite one regarding war. Redbeard and other characters in game, were so epicly done it was awesome and i could get into it. As for overall regular story, i only wish i could get into geneforge 3-5 as much as i did with the 1st geneforge. Even though i played the 1st geneforge wrong, i still think the story made everything so much better. Geneforge 2 had a likewise excellent story as well. The only other geneforge ive played enough to judge was geneforge 4 as i didnt really play 3 and 5. Therefore i really cant judge geneforge 3 and 5 enough to say how the story was compared to g2 and g1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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