Question About Buying Spell Levels

[IJBall]

In looking over this board, I've seen some advice to not buy spell levels, but I've also seen some people council buying levels of at least some of the early spells (e.g. Bolt of Fire, Minor Heal).

 

So my question is - what spells, if any, are worth buying levels in (and which ones aren't)?

 

Will buying levels of Bolt of Fire really increase the damage it inflicts (and, if so, by how much)?

Will buying levels of Minor Heal really increase the HPs restored (and, if so, by how much)?

Will buying levels of 'area of effect' spells like Icy Rain, Lightening Spray, et al. really increase the damage they do?

 

And, conversely, does buying levels in spells like Minor Summon and Summon Shade, or the Cloak/Ward spells, or (esp.) Dispel Barrier, really accomplish absolutely nothing?

 

Also, if buying spell levels does little to no good, what is the best thing to invest in instead? Intelligence? Mage/Priest levels?

 

I'd be cool if there was a definitive (numerical) answer to these questions.

 

Anyway, TIA, if anyone knows the answers - while it probably won't help my current game, it might help any time I decide to replay A6 down the road!

[jlsgaladriel]

I think the information on individual spells is all listed in the pdf file that comes with the download?

 

Spells do (or heal) a base amount of damage, plus -- in old-school terms -- an extra 'die' of damage per spell strength.

 

Spell strength is mage-or-priest-spell level + spellcraft + specific spell level.

 

Bolt of fire does 10 base damage, plus ssd5.

Icy rain causes 10 base damage over an area, plus ssd3.

 

So for every level of bolt of fire you buy you gain 1-5 damage; for every level of icy rain, you gain 1-3 damage per target.

 

Spell strength for non-damage spells typically lenghthens the duration of a spell by ss/2 turns. Levels of spray acid increase both damage and duration of damage over time.

 

Spellcraft is a cheaper way to increase spell power than any other; once your mage and/or priest spell level reaches 17, you don't really need to increase them higher.

[Slariton]

Some corrections:

 

- Only 75% of your Mage and Priest Spells skills and your Spellcraft skill count towards spell strength. It may be 75% of the specific spell level too, I'm not sure about that part.

 

- Also, Bolt of Fire does not do d5. It does d3.

 

- Levels of Spray Acid will increase damage and duration up to a point, but there is a damage per turn cap for acid damage.

 

Basically, given the skribbane exploit that turns cash into xp/sp, buying spell levels is always bad. It's okay perhaps if the spell level is really cheap and you expect to use it a lot, a la Bolt of Fire. Otherwise, with a full party, I'd pass.

[Soul of Wit]

Simple answer:

 

A level of Mage/Priest or Spellcraft increases the power of ALL spells. All spells are available to be found in the game (or are free at the start.) Those two facts put together mean that, in general, you should NOT buy spell levels.

 

The are two obvious exceptions. First, you haven't found the spell and you really need it. Go ahead and buy one level. For example, both Slow and Haste are extremely valuable to a Mage and you don't start with them.

 

Second, a spellcaster won't have many levels of Mage/Priest or Spellcraft in the early game. There are certain spells that are available cheap in the early game and can be used throughout the game. Bolt of Fire is the obvious example. Having it at, say, level 3 (plus your Mage level,) from the get-go, is worthwhile. One could argue that the basic Priest buff spells (War Blessing and Protection) also fall into this category.

 

What should you save your cash for? Trainers and the wonderful blesser in Dharmon. Trainers turn cash into skill levels without spending the very limited skill points.

 

Intelligence increases "mana level" (your ability to cast spells) and has no bearing on the POWER of your spells. Intelligence and Spellcraft, together, will unlock Magical Efficiency. That is a basic goal for all spellcasters, as it reduces "mana burn".

 

The skribbane exploit should be fixed. Unlimited supply of an illicit drug makes no sense from either a game balance or real life viewpoint.

[Slariton]

Another correction: you can start with Haste.

 

Pumping Bolt of Fire from 1 to 3 will increase your damage by an average of 4 points (or possibly 3, if it's 75% -- see above) before fire resistance. This isn't a bad thing, and may be worthwhile, but it isn't critical.

[Archmage Brock]

Huh. I always get enough money that I can afford the trainers AND spell levels. So I do that. At least, it worked on A5, haven't done A6 yet, I'm a PC.

[Jerakeen]

Hey IJBall, welcome. Tired of waiting for Eschalon Book II?

 

[IJBall]

Originally Posted By: The Turtle Moves

Hey IJBall, welcome. Tired of waiting for Eschalon Book II?

Eh, considering how long it's been taking me to get through A6, I haven't even missed E:BII yet!

(And, after A6, I'll probably hit Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (1), which will probably end up taking me through E:BII's release! )

[Slariton]

Wasn't the original release date for Eschalon 2 something like September 2008? I know they're much closer now, but really, don't hold your breath.

[IJBall]

Originally Posted By: Exersociatique

Wasn't the original release date for Eschalon 2 something like September 2008? I know they're much closer now, but really, don't hold your breath.

I think it's always been slated for 2009 since I've been hanging around there. Originally it was something like Q3 of 2009, then it was Q4, and now it's looking more like Q1 of 2010. Basically, they're about 6 months later than originally planned - I don't consider that a horrible delay in my book.

[Slariton]

It's definitely more of a delay than that -- around the time of book 1's release, which was fall 2007, it was supposed to come out a year to a year and a half later. I don't know if a specific date was given then.

 

Edit: I'm not complaining about it, since the delay seems to be the result of making large improvements to the game based on user feedback... it is a delay however.

[echoes]

I gotta say, when the lava was creeping up toward my heels, I didn't feel like the cash I spent adding d3s to my spell attacks was wasted.

[araziel]

So, instead of just making a new topic I thought I'd just ask here.

Is there a cap on spell level effectiveness? That is, does having level 5 haste give you anything compared to level 3?

I tried some simple statistics and it seemed level 5 didn't give any benefit in duration, but as it was a small sample it's not conclusive by any means.

 

In all the previous Avernums I maxed spell levels at trainers then read the books. Then again I'm probably borderline insane when it comes to min-maxing.

[Randomizer]

Increasing spell levels either increases damage for attack spells or duration for buffing spells or effectiveness for healing. If you use the spell a lot then get extra levels, but otherwise 1 level is all you need.

 

Welcome to Spiderweb Software. Please leave your sanity at the door.

[Alorael at Large]

The formulas for spell damage and duration are all given in the instructions PDF. A single level of a spell is identical to a single point of Mage/Priest Spells or a point of Spellcraft. The effects are always linear, I think, but in practice really long durations aren't especially more useful once your buffs don't need to be re-applied constantly. Damage should keep increasing nicely, but the benefits of one level are fairly small.

 

—Alorael, who concludes that the gold could be best spent elsewhere and buying from trainers isn't worthwhile.

[araziel]

Yeah, I knew the formula, just wondered if there was some kind of cap à la the 10 point cap on some skills not stated there.

 

And I guess gold is better spent elsewhere but I always had enough of it in the earlier games so I could max both skills and spells. Probably won't bother in A6 though since it seems a bit more hard to come by+the skribbane thing.

 

Thanks

[Slariton]

Also note that the bonus you get from spell levels, Spellcraft, and Mage or Priest Spells is multiplied by 75% (at least for damage spells, not sure about buff durations). The instructions omit that part.