Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 so, I'm stuck with the question of what traits to put on my slith priest. He'll be the second character and therefore secondary tank, but also the only priest. The party consists of a Nephil fighter, Slith priest, and two human mages. Divinely Touched, Elite Warrior and Pure Spirit all make sense. DT and EW would be better on a tank, but I guess that raising his priest skill all the way without PS will eat up all his skill points. Also, due to the fact that racial weapon bonuses count towards battle disciplines, humans have now become totally useless in theory. I still take em, but it's such a gross imbalance that you really have to wonder why this made it past the beta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 For the party setup you're describing, Divinely Touched/Pure Spirit is probably the most efficient combination. Getting Priest Spells up to 17 is a real pain without Pure Spirit, and Divinely Touched makes you better at absolutely everything. Without the weight limit bonus from Elite Warrior, you might have to wear lighter armour sometimes, but your primary tank can pick up the slack. Greaves are the first thing you should ditch, since they add a lot of weight for a minimal protective benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Without the weight limit bonus from Elite Warrior wait what does parry increase your carrying capacity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Elite Warrior trait slowly increases you carrying capacity. Really nice for fighters since they don't have to increase strength so quickly for thier heavy armor. Divine Touch and Pure Spirit is usually the best way to go for getting priest spells and doing more with them. You can hold off on armor or put a little to strength to make a tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 I decided against making the slith a priest and now have: Nephil fighter Slith fighter (EW+DT) Human Mage Human Mage/Priest on second thought I like the mage/priest because it's the only viable character from a power perspective that really doesn't have a disadvantage from being a human. With pretty much all points going to Int, Mag, Pri, and later Magery, he wouldn't profit in any way from the Slith/Nephil bonuses. So YAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 does your spellcasters use weapons at all, like bows or just spells? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Every character benefits from slith and nephil bonuses to various weapon types because every character benefits from battle disciplines. Nephils and casters have even higher synergy, as you'll want to give them bows so they can do damage without wasting energy. —Alorael, who is a big fan of the mage/priest. He's been using that setup since A1 and using it with nephils since A4. They're not optimal, probably, but they are effective enough to deal with Hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 What I do with that setup is have one who is mostly a mage, but knows a few priest spells just in case they are needed, and a priest who knows a few mage spells. Along with my two fighters, they seem to work pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Love the cosine, hate the sin. Every character benefits from slith and nephil bonuses to various weapon types because every character benefits from battle disciplines. Nephils and casters have even higher synergy, as you'll want to give them bows so they can do damage without wasting energy. Making a mage/priest/archer with all the battle disciplines requires an enormous skill point investment, though. You'll either have to go Natural Mage/Pure Spirit (missing out on the very significant bonuses from Divinely Touched), or feed that character most of the knowledge brews you find to keep their spellcasting skills up to scratch. It's a good character build, but having more than one in a party can be difficult to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Or you can make do without all of the battle disciplines (or all of the spells on one path or the other). I don't get to Randomizer-level discipline use, but even the low-level ones are helpful. It's quite reasonable to get Adrenaline Rush even without spending many or any skill points, and that's a huge boost for casters in itself. —Alorael, whose characters often start out or spend some time as Doom Warrior describes. Eventually, though, all spells are worth having, and the incremental investments don't seem unreasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Eat, Drink, and Be Every character benefits from slith and nephil bonuses to various weapon types because every character benefits from battle disciplines. Nephils and casters have even higher synergy, as you'll want to give them bows so they can do damage without wasting energy waste energy with firebolt? I don't think so. As for the battle disciplines, withouth ever pumping the skill, the bonus alone may be enough to open up the first or second discipline - near the end of the game, mind you. That's not an advantage realistically speaking. It's more like saying 0,30$ is better than being broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82 As for the battle disciplines, withouth ever pumping the skill, the bonus alone may be enough to open up the first or second discipline - near the end of the game, mind you. That's not an advantage realistically speaking. It's more like saying 0,30$ is better than being broke. Between racial bonuses, trainers, and weapons like the Discipline Blade, it's possible to get most of the battle disciplines on a mage by the Azure Gallery with only a moderate skill point investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82 As for the battle disciplines, withouth ever pumping the skill, the bonus alone may be enough to open up the first or second discipline - near the end of the game, mind you. That's not an advantage realistically speaking. It's more like saying 0,30$ is better than being broke. Between racial bonuses, trainers, and weapons like the Discipline Blade, it's possible to get most of the battle disciplines on a mage by the Azure Gallery with only a moderate skill point investment. 3 points trained in bows = 1 point towards BD. Still, if you do use trainers + items, the racial bonuses are, again, not really significant. Even less so on a character that acts as a priest first and as a mage only if need be. Especially if that character has very low health to begin with. Still, humans are at an unfair disadvantage. There should be something to at least put them on par with the other races (i.e. faster spell point regeneration) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82 3 points trained in bows = 1 point towards BD. The idea is that you buy training for everything, even the skills you're not using. 3 points bows plus 3 points thrown plus 3 points melee plus 3 points pole = 9 points toward battle disciplines. Money is easy to come by. The racial bonuses are pretty significant too: 2 points toward battle disciplines to start with and another point every 6 levels. That's around 7 points by the later parts of the game. You can have Adrenaline Rush by Vahnatai Lands with practically zero skill point investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82 3 points trained in bows = 1 point towards BD. The idea is that you buy training for everything, even the skills you're not using. 3 points bows plus 3 points thrown plus 3 points melee plus 3 points pole = 9 points toward battle disciplines. Money is easy to come by. The racial bonuses are pretty significant too: 2 points toward battle disciplines to start with and another point every 6 levels. That's around 7 points by the later parts of the game. You can have Adrenaline Rush by Vahnatai Lands with practically zero skill point investment. thing is, I can't see myself using battle disciplines on a priest/mage often, not if he's more of a priest, since disciplines only help your offense. Still, I realize that humans are at a disadvantage overall. Even if you take into account that a party of 4 humans might have "an easier time" now and then, you'll be missing out on quests, which means missing out on monster XP, quest XP and items. So no advantage there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: SacredPath_82 thing is, I can't see myself using battle disciplines on a priest/mage often, not if he's more of a priest, since disciplines only help your offense. Bladeshield provides excellent protection from physical damage, and Adrenaline Rush is useful in all kinds of situations. Besides, even priests have offensive magic; Smite is a pretty good staple source of damage from the midgame onwards, and Divine Fire is almost as strong as Fireblast (the difference is only 8 points of damage). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasoned Roamer SacredPath_82 Posted August 1, 2009 Author Share Posted August 1, 2009 Originally Posted By: Thuryl Bladeshield provides excellent protection from physical damage, and Adrenaline Rush is useful in all kinds of situations. I was talking about defensive spells actually (Enduring Shield, Protection, Mass Heal). The mage/priest himself will stay out of melee as best he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 You can't keep a character out of combat absolutely and all the time. Bladeshield helps. So does Adrenaline Rush, actually; you can use it to double cast, or you can just run very, very far. —Alorael, who does not like the idea of a dead-weight healer/buffer priest. Your priest needs to contribute more. At the very least he needs to plink away with a bow, and then he still needs disciplines to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Priests are very effective offensively in A5. It's a shame when you have to waste their turn healing and buffing. That's why I like to have more than one. In my current game I've got a mage(fighter), a priest(thief), a priest(mage), and a mage(priest). No battle disciplines yet (just reached Harkin's Landing), but they can deal some serious damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineffable Wingbolt Øther Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Mages never get very much protection from items. The reason is that they can handle about 5% less hit chance from bulky items before they are unable to cast spells. And yet priests can get as many bulky items as they want, and they are always able to cast their spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 If you want mages to be anything but helpless, squishy targets they need to be Natural Mages with the full 25% armor load. —Alorael, who also recommends keeping in mind that eventually the game throws enemies you can't take down quickly at you. You need tanks of some kind to keep them off your squishy damage-dealers. Priests could work, but they need to be prepared for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Untamed Banana Slug Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Out of the static If you want mages to be anything but helpless, squishy targets they need to be Natural Mages with the full 25% armor load. —Alorael, who also recommends keeping in mind that eventually the game throws enemies you can't take down quickly at you. You need tanks of some kind to keep them off your squishy damage-dealers. Priests could work, but they need to be prepared for it. Aren't there several sets of armour that don't encumber? Although I still think Natural Mage would be a better choice than Elite Warrior. By the way, what is all this nonsense about priests being 'wasted' or 'not pulling their weight' if they are mainly healing and buffing? A healed character's damage output is 100%, whereas an unconscious character's damage output is 0%. In otherwords, a devoted support priest just increased a party member's damage output from 0% to 100%. A similar argument applies to blessing and shielding spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Lilith Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug By the way, what is all this nonsense about priests being 'wasted' or 'not pulling their weight' if they are mainly healing and buffing? A healed character's damage output is 100%, whereas an unconscious character's damage output is 0%. In otherwords, a devoted support priest just increased a party member's damage output from 0% to 100%. A similar argument applies to blessing and shielding spells. If you have more than one priest in the party, you'll rarely need to spend all of their actions healing, so it's good if they can do things that aren't healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Randomizer Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I ran an A5 singleton mage/priest without Natural Mage trait so armor isn't a problem if you are careful. By the end there is runed plate without an encumberance problem and certain items will reduce the bulky penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easygoing Eyebeast Jerakeen Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Untamed Banana Slug By the way, what is all this nonsense about priests being 'wasted' or 'not pulling their weight' if they are mainly healing and buffing? A healed character's damage output is 100%, whereas an unconscious character's damage output is 0%. In otherwords, a devoted support priest just increased a party member's damage output from 0% to 100%. A similar argument applies to blessing and shielding spells. It's also true that a dead enemy's damage output is 0%. Buffing and healing are fine; victory is better. >:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgeoning Battle Gamma Dark.Fenix Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 my priest always have a minimum of 4 mage to get haste so he can help in buff area during fights (and a bit later slow), also my mage has at least 4 of priest lvls to also help in buff area. my priest helps with acid and firebolt at max lvls (they are cheap and good), acid being really good, hope they dont nerf it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 offensive spell+shield breaker disclipline does nice damage and helps fighters and also off. spell+curse helps fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice Alorael at Large Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Non-encumbering armor isn't a problem for a singleton, but it's not so common that equipping two or more mages with it is trivial. —Alorael, who should instead say that it can be done, but you'll often have one character wearing armor that's behind the times and the area you're fighting through. And armor isn't an absolute necessity if you can protect your mages, but it definitely helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Understated Ur-Drakon Earth Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 some places spellcasters need armor due fighters aren't protectin them from hits. Robes give nice protection but not as good as plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchling Cockatrice ex post slarto Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 The difference in ACTUAL damage reduction between a complete set of non-encumbering armor, and a complete set of the strongest encumbering armor, is miniscule. The better armor never hurts, of course, but it is pretty much the least effective way of protecting your characters, and is therefore the least necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrulous Glaahk Untamed Banana Slug Posted September 9, 2009 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: Guided:Voices :: Expected:Nobody The difference in ACTUAL damage reduction between a complete set of non-encumbering armor, and a complete set of the strongest encumbering armor, is miniscule. The better armor never hurts, of course, but it is pretty much the least effective way of protecting your characters, and is therefore the least necessary. My gaming experience supports this statement. The armour difference between my priest with an encumbrance of 65 pounds and a mage with an encumbrance of 40 pounds was negligible. The ideal armour for a mage isn't the one with the highest defensive rating, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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