madrigan

This will never happen unless someone on this forum hits the billion dollar lottery, but just for fun, how would you want this movie to go? Would you want a retelling of one or some of the stories from the games? Which one? Or would you rather have a new story in the Avernum setting? Who would play who? Any director you think could pull it off the best? It seems to me that this could be a huge epic on the scale of The Lord of the Rings movies, or a writer could pick one of the more obscure subplots and use Avernum as a backdrop for something more psychological. The idea of an entire nation of thought criminals trapped in caves is just full of dramatic possibility.

Unfortunately, I'm in Formello now and I've become emotionally invested in my characters which have basically every bad positive trait. Oh well. It's more RPGish to stick with the character concept. By the way, everyone was right about the Fort Draco bandits. They are way easier than the Nephil fort. Actually, I think the hardest thing in Fort Draco is figuring out that Anford is one of the statues standing by the water. After I revived my dead guy in the Nephil fort, we were able to remain death-free. It was just the one battle. Does anyone know how the AI chooses targets in A2? They seem to really like hitting my Slith warrior/mechanic. Also, are swords really hard to use in this game? My sword character has 7 in melee weapons but she seems to miss at least half the time.

Originally Posted By: Line to the Wind Sliths don't have durability, except for a bit of fire resistance. —Alorael, Are you sure that Sliths don't have better natural armor than the other species? They sure seem tougher. Maybe it's just my expectation.

With all this in mind, I used the editor to revive Hank and told him to be more careful next time. However, having read all these responses, I think I might backtrack out of the fort and kill some more stuff before I try those guys again. I mean, that has got to be the toughest kitchen staff of all time.

Originally Posted By: Ghaldring What's important is knowing which traits are good, and which are bad. Elite Warrior, Natural Mage, Fast on Feet, Nimble Fingers, Strong Will and Toughness are all good 'good' traits, whereas Divinely Touched, Beastmaster and Great Renown suck big time. If you want to take two good traits per character, you might want to ditch your fourth character to make up the XP. I usually only need three characters anyway. This could be part of my problem, though not most of it. I figured Divinely Touched would be a good idea because it's good in A4 and 5. Great Reknown doesn't seem to do very much. What about Well Educated, or whatever it's called? I like the idea of sort of a Rogue Scholar-type character. By the way, does Natural Mage work for Clerics in A2? There's no Pure Spirit.

Originally Posted By: Ghaldring madigran: Quote: 1) Epic, intricate plot, *sobs* You should try playing Planescape: Torment. The name alone inclines me against playing it. Is there a Planescape: Easy?

I agree that this is a functional party. I always like to have a sword guy, though. Having a pole guy and a sword guy gives you the widest range of weapons to use. Radiant Soulblade, that is all. I nearly always have at least one character from each species. That's just personal role-playing preference, though, since you don't lose many levels by using a Slith or Nephil. It is good to get more levels, though -- you get skill points you can distribute as you want, instead of having only certain skills increase automatically. In the past I've experimented with a Slith mage, because their built in durability helps offset the necessary limitations on Endurance in a mage character. Recently I played a human mage with Natural Mage and Elite Warrior, and this turned out to be pretty cool. The automatic Blademaster increased her encumbrance capacity and meant I could send her into melee against some opponents and save spell points. It also opened up Parry, somehow, with the obvious advantages. I always choose Strong Will for my best warrior to prevent them from killing the rest of the party if charmed. I think the primary hand-to-hand guy and the primary healer are the most important characters in a four-character party. I've never tried it, but I like the idea of putting Fast On Feet on a primary healer.

Avernum 4 was my first SW game. Here is why I love it and why I bought it: 1) Epic, intricate plot, all the more interesting to me since I had no idea who Rentar was. 2) Functional, pleasant graphics not requiring fancy hardware. 3) Extremely open character design. 4) Funny dialogue. 5) Humongous game world. 6) Replayability due to open character design and multitude of hidden maps and items. 7) Exciting, Hollywood-dramatic battles, especially the final confrontation with Dorikas and the assault on Hosharr's fort. Things I don't like about A4: 1) No built-in character editor. 2) OMG CHITRACHS EVERY FIVE FEET WHEN WILL IT END 3) Fighting your way to the final battle with Rentar can be more dramatic and difficult than the actual battle. I think that A4 is a great game, with vastly better interface and graphics compared to the original trilogy. I think A5 is a better designed game, and I like the Battle Disciplines, but it is more linear than A4. A4 is linear, but A5 is sort of obnoxiously linear.

Thanks to all. I did equip myself at the fort, and I found the Wall of Foreshadowing in the northernmost supply room, but I don't think I found the secret room. I think I will start over and use Custom characters like I usually do in A4 and A5. In those newer games I usually have a party of four specialists, but I will try giving everyone Priest and Mage spells in A2. I might have to overcome my urge to follow the Flow of the Game and do some other stuff before the Nephil Fort. By the way I did find the secret entrance. I always take the Richard Marcinko approach when I can.

So I decided to try A1 again, but I just couldn't do it. I got as far as Formello and I couldn't take the little tiny figures and the no quest list anymore. I just felt like I wasn't getting anywhere. The plot was too vague for too long. So, I decided to try A2, which I think is the only one I haven't even started. I like it much more than A1. I was going along ok for a few minutes, and figured out how to rest, and made my way through part of the Nephil fort. One of the things I like best about A4 and 5 is that you have to get beaten really badly to lose a character. As long as you know when to run away, you can revive the party and try again. Whereas in A2, I lost a guy part way through the fort, and not only do I need to spend a bunch of money to get him back, I have to find a healer in a part of the map I haven't explored yet! I am playing on Easy. I tried reloading, shielding everybody and trying the battle again. Same result. I tried going on with the three survivors, but nearly lost another character in the next battle. This is not going to work. Aside from accepting that I suck and just playing A5 again, is there some Original Trilogy Trick that I don't understand? How can you keep all of your cash flow from going to resurrections?

Obviously, the mushrooms contain some sort of mood-enhancing chemical, which is why the Avernites are able to tolerate their environment at all.

Quote: Originally written by Phazer: Keeping all sides balanced. PC as Monitor. Member of a secret Agency so secret it doesn't even know who it is. You for and against all sides, playing off one against another and as long as no side wins or loses, you win. I don't know. It doesn't sound like an apt ending to the saga. I like it as a general game concept, or maybe as a subquest. But I think the standards of heroic fantasy demand that the task be bold and the ending be spectacular, not subtle.

What I'd like out of my War Trall is for it to block incoming missile and magic attacks -- like it would know it can take a ton of damage and would automatically shield the other creations with its body. This could make a War Trall / Wingbolt combination very effective. Just for coolness factor, it would be cooler if instead of hurling rocks, the Trall bowled them along the ground. Maybe the attack could have a greater chance to stun to stimulate the enemy being knocked off their feet. Also, since it is very strong and already has a bag with apparently limitless volume, I'd like it to carry some of my gear.

I know I'm the only one, but I really like the War Trall. Who doesn't want a giant ape with a bag full of rocks? I would like it if flying creations gained some sort of benefit from their ability to fly, though.

Quote: Originally written by Grimm: I'd like to see Avernum start a turf war with itself. There are now so many people that the amount of beliefs/religions/lifestyles among general population must be exponential.That and the resources are dwindling. You'd think that a civil war would break out, with both the Empire and Vahnatai egging Avernum on, since both want the caves back. I like this idea, but who would the PCs be? What would be the overall mission?

Before Lysstak can see you, cast every blessing and shielding spell you've got and haste everyone in the party. Slow the enemy and spray acid on him. If you have a summoning spell, use it for extra help. You probably have some energy potions if this takes all your spell points. Did you complete all the quests prior to this chapter? The default characters are pretty balanced out unless you spend your skill points very unwisely or skip too many opportunities. Sometimes, you can pin the enemy in a corner or against some object, or lure him out of the room to a less advantageous position, like just outside a doorway.

They had an epidemic of Mage Cow Disease.

Quote: Originally written by Vagrancy - Inquire Within: Quote: Originally written by madrigan: Meanwhile, the vahnatai have sort of a communist system, or maybe a quasi-theocracy. They have the odd merchant, but they seem to only exchange with outsiders. Really? A2 is the only game in which you see vahnatai at home, and there are definitely merchants and shops in cities built by vahnatai and for vahnatai, and which aren't exactly expecting human visitors. A3-A5 only have vahnatai emissaries, military expeditions, and fortresses. It's not surprising that among themselves they're cooperative and to outsiders they're mercantile. They have strong bonds among themselves. I agree that it is not surprising that the vahnatai would be outwardly mercantile and inwardly cooperative. The most obvious economic unit that works this way is the human family -- to varying degrees. The only vahnatai town I've "been to" is in A5, and they had the one merchant, who apparently only did business with passing adventurers.

Quote: Originally written by Rent-an-Ihrno: Capitalism evolved under late feudalism, and money is anything you can use to trade for everything else. Coins or stones or whatever. The fundamental mechanics of capitalism definately apply for the economies of Avernum and the Empire I should have said that they don't have fiat money -- which alone makes their system rather archaic. I think you'll agree that if all product sales have to be paid for in metal in the actual value of the exchange, this makes a modern capitalist system impossible. All financial reserves have to be held in metal or gemstones. There is no credit, and there is exactly one company issuing stock. My point is that, given the above and the other unusual characteristics of the economy that I mentioned, it is very difficult to speculate as to how states or people will behave. It's a situation that has never existed, neither mercantilist nor capitalist. Anyway, I'm sure the new game will not be called Avernum 6: The Means of Production. It's safe to say that the economy in Avernum 6 will work exactly the same way as it has previously. Edited to add: I think there is no possible way we'll see vahnatai PCs. They're just too different from the present PC races. I'd play an Unstable Mass PC, though. "You very slowly, gently creep into town, fearing for your life lest you bump into a passerby."

I'm not sure that Avernum or the Empire have a capitalist economy the way we think of it. They both have archaic systems overall. Modern financial institutions are only in the larval stage. All merchants buy things for the same price, but sell for different prices -- yet everyone knows exactly how much things are actually worth and how expensive different merchants are compared to the others. I realize that these are the simplified mechanics of a game, but it is the system they have. There's a hereditary monarchy in the caves, and a tyranny on the surface, but really, the Avernite government is just a military. Meanwhile the economy is almost a complete information system, but without any regulation whatsoever. My point is that our ideas about modern capitalist economies do not apply completely to the economic system in the game. They don't even have money -- everything is bought and sold for the actual equivalent in metal coins. Meanwhile, the vahnatai have sort of a communist system, or maybe a quasi-theocracy. They have the odd merchant, but they seem to only exchange with outsiders. I think that it is interesting to consider how the odd economics of the game world would affect the behavior of the odd governments. Is there evidence that the Empire actual has any resource problems, at all? It controls the entire surface of a planet. It's hard for me to accept that they are interested in conquering such an unpleasant place for some mushrooms and lizard skins. There are the crystals, but non-vahnatai magic doesn't seem to require them.

Quote: Originally written by Nikki.: The new Imperial fortress, which I'm assuming belonged to Dorikos (yeah, not finished A5 - it got boring) becomes a new Fort Avernum, and the caves are once again used as a prison... Oh, no! I hope this doesn't happen. What a sad, hopeless ending.

Quote: Originally written by Locmaar: Keeping this in mind and with all due respect to the resourcefulness and knowledgability of certain members: do you actually think it appropriate for the aforementioned audience to read gory details about what kind of wounds which type of weapon inflicts? I think that Avernum is an extremely violent game, as are the vast majority of popular PC games, though it is less gory than most of those. I think that the balance between reality and playability is central to the design of any game, and that the effects of the real-world counterparts of the game weaponry are directly relevant to that balance. I think that the discussion on this thread was not unnecessarily graphic. It was actually quite technical. Avernum is a game in which the heroes kill other living things, human and non-, with great frequency. The setting is explicitly dangerous and insecure. The NPCs starve, kill, rob, torture, and repress each other. Given that, I don't think that a discussion of what such activity might mean in the real world is at all inappropriate. Finally, I think that it is that mother's job to monitor her child's Internet use, and to decide for herself what is and is not appropriate. We're not vulgar on this board, and it's rare that anyone posts something offensive -- and if they did, the moderators would nuke it. The discussion that's been going on was appropriate for this forum and not any kind of a danger to children, parents, or, for that matter, to Spiderweb. [Edited for clarity.]

Quote: Originally written by Emperor Tullegolar: ... with man boobs? Pecs! They're called pecs, ok??? Or, he's wearing an inverted backpack or something.

Just play as a woman. It will broaden your horizons. Or, pretend the image is of a longhaired dude in a kilt.

Quote: Originally written by GVDT: What are all of these "nations" everybody is talking about? The Abyss has clearly been subsumed by Avernum, so there's really only one nation in Avernum; the only other "nations" are the Empire (covering the entire surface) and Vahnatai tribes (in the lower caves, never considered part of the caves of Avernum). The three nations I have in mind are Avernum, the Empire, and the Vahnatai, as you say. I would say that the Nephil and the Slith are also nations in the sense of "a people" as opposed to "a state."