Good Canisters

Quote: Originally written by Lord Macintosh: Whoa, you mean Mooralis will be in Khor's Deeps? I nailed Hoge in the Inn, but I never saw head or toe of Mooralis until Icy End. Glitch, possibly? If you killed Hoge in the inn, Mooralas will not be in Icy End. Instead, he'll replace Hoge's role in the Khor's Deeps. If Hoge survived the inn encounter, he'll be in Khor's Deeps and Mooralas will be in the Icy End.

Maybe there isn't a damage cap, but diminishing returns does quite well.

That is reassuring, but I've finally hit 203 after I added a point to spellcraft. I read from a topic long ago about people hitting 300-400 per orb with Essence Orbs, and they said they had skills similar to mine. I just can't see how it's possible.

I play an Agent in GF 3 on torment, and I have a question about Essence Orbs. How come I can't break 200 damage with a single orb, on any enemy with 16 Battle Magic, 14 Spellcraft, 2 to Essence Orbs, while blessed? How much is magic affected by diminishing returns?

Quote: Originally written by Alberich: Lord Macintosh, you're quite right about GF2. You can defeat the whole thing, even the "challenge" areas on Torment, without using a single canister. Whether this is worthwhile is a question of taste. Of course, just play a melee guardian. Pump your first 20 skill points into parry and QA, and let Shanti train you (+1 QA and parry). You'll start with a huge advantage.

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: Quote: Originally written by ET: Do you think that ornks are a danger to the world? Try attacking one as a beginning character and see what type of damage they can do. Anything can be abused if you really work at it. It's just shaping has gotten out of control and created a large population of mentally unstable people who are abusing their power. Monarch is given as a extreme example who besides his creations was gearing up for germ warfare. But ornks drop ornkskin gauntlets!

I just think that Shaping is one of the most important parts of Geneforge, and although it is possible to get by the game without a single companion, it is very difficult, especially on torment. Only agent type PCs with excessive spellcasting can really get by no shaping. My agent (GF 3) had no companions, so I had to kill everything on Harmony and Greenwood Isles early in the game to maximize experience. A skilled player using a 0 creation spellcaster can probably get by with significant abuse of the combat system. PS. I haven't played GF 4 yet, so please excuse my ignorance.

Thanks to everyone for the confirmation, it is greatly appreciated.

Quote: Originally written by Dikiyoba: Originally by Nija_Halycron: Quote: ...and barzel have blue robes. *checks* Huh. He does. So then where did Dikiyoba get the image of a godlike glowing green Shaper? Ah, I remember a long time ago, someone posted the scripts to make your character actually glow! It was like a moving version of Barzhal. So if your shaper was wearing green robes, you had a glowing green shaper Radioactive!

Quote: Originally written by The1Kobra: How many times have you used the Pleaselikeme code? Never, however I used the iloveserviles code and accidentally saved (a while back), I don't know if this affect it. The tolerance level is far beyond normal... South End also seems to have an above average level in tolerance. Fort Kentia has no problems, however. EDIT: Also, it wasn't intentional that Master Hoge could be killed in the Bulwark Inn right? I attacked him using the "first strike trick" and moved into hit and run, and he came after me with his Aura of Flames. I was hasted, blessed and shielded and eventually, I took him down...

I'm back with my agent, killing anything that breathes... I approach Harmony East Docks, and through my experiences there, I find a glitch. The area has an extreamly high tolerance for crime. You can steal everything in plain sight, and I even murdered 4 people there in plain sight, and they were still friendly. So friendly that they assisted me in battle against the hostile guards, and when a guard killed another guard that I had previously mortally wounded, I even got the exp. I believe that is a bug/glitch, no?

Quote: Originally written by Everything Remains To Be Done: The purity officer gives the acid-drip sword as a reward for the canister, IIRC. You don't want to miss that unless you never ever intend to melee. As a matter of fact, I never want to melee. It will be another challenge for my agent, no melee for the entire game starting now. Thanks to all for pointing out that Danell (the purity officer) hands out hefty exp bonuses. It would be somewhat insane however to never make a single pro-shaper view or action starting now, I really don't need that much of a challenge right now...

I'm sorry to have to post again, but since no one has posted in a bit of time, and I have something people should be quite aware of: Powergaming has a lot of perils. A huge danger. I first helped Diwaniya by killing the twin mind and the 4 spawners, and I reported success. I then gave Lankan his crystal canister, and I went back to San Ru. As I entered, it displayed a warning message that Diwaniya may get angry at me. When I stepped into his room, he went hostile and killed me in one hit with his essence orbs. Now, I was very very angry, because of two things: I had my supply cache behind Diwaniya, in the room where he has an essence pool, and I saved right after I gave Lankan his canister. My last save was about 5 or more hours ago. My life's equipment up to the end of Harmony Isle was stored there, and I stared at Diwaniya in disbelief with my level 17 singleton traitorous agent. I had no companions, and no knowledge of shaping, nor did I plan to ever to do so. I casted haste on my agent, and ran to the supply cache room (in combat mode), and closed the door. Here begins my epic battle against Diwaniya and his minions, on torment, with a level 17 singleton agent. I also vowed not to cheat. First, I regained all the essence and spell points with the essence pool. Then, I searched through my cache to find an armor potion, which I used in conjunction with my augmentation to give me a 50% chance of surviving Diwaniya's essence orbs, which hit 150-170 on me, as I wear very light armor. 160 HP wasn't enough, and worse, all my enemies acted before me. So I was forced to abuse combat mode, in haste, with 12 AP. I opened the door, then quickly switched to combat mode (cheap way to act faster then people who would normally go first) and rushed out, to be met by a glaahk and an battle alpha which massacred me. I reloaded, hasted, blessed, opened the door, and shot searer at the alpha, closed the door and waited for him to die. After the Alpha died, I reopened the door with haste and bless and ice sprayed the glaahk to death. (This process actually forced me to reload about 5 times, because I had to figure out how to do everything perfectly.) I proceeded to run out, and didn't turn on combat mode before I stepped out and got shot by Diwaniya's essence orbs and died again. Reload. Haste, bless, combat mode abuse. Ran out to where Norell was standing with 10 AP left, shot him with searer and ran. He didn't die, but lost about 100 HP after the acid was gone, so I repeated and finished him off. By then, Diwaniya created more creations, and I had to perform hit and run on them too. Finally, Diwaniya was all alone. I ran just out of his sight and blessed. I walked one step, and seared him, but I didn't see that I had 9 AP! I forgot to haste! Diwaniya shot me with his essence orbs, leaving me with about 5 HP. I ran back, healed, blessed and hasted. I seared him, and hit and ran and hit and ran. Finally, after about 3 times, I struck the killing blow to him. It feels so great to have powergamed Harmony to it's maximum extent, and to have killed Diwaniya at level 17, meriting a hefty 80 Exp and a bonus of a Shaped Breastplate and a Symbiotic Cloak.

Thanks for your confirmation. It is greatly appreciated.

I'm an all canister agent, playing on torment as a loyalist defecting to a rebel (for the training). I don't have either Alwan or Greta, nor ever plan to use them or make any creations, ever. My question is: is it possible to receive both of the major rewards of helping both rebel and loyalist? Can you defeat the twin minds and the 4 spawners, returning to Diwaniya to pick up an exp bonus and also give Lankan his canister? If so, how should I approach the two leaders? Upon giving Lankan his canister, Diwaniya no longer lets you complete his quest. If you complete Diwaniya's quest first, is it still possible to give Lankan his canister, or will they already be hostile?

Sorry for the double post, thanks to Synergy for pointing it out. I was editing my old post, and many things went wrong, apparently.

Quote: Originally written by Everything Remains To Be Done: Incidentally, is there anyone here who doubts that the missing sixth class, the Magic strong Combat weak one, would undoubtedly be the best class by a mile unless its essence score was unexpectedly nerfed? Magic/Shaping combo? Thats just unfair, unless they nerf just about everything about that character, and force you to play torment. I've heard that magic is the best for GF 4, and creations should be better than melee, if the damage multipliers are as messed as I've seen. Getting the best of both realms, plenty of essence and spell energy due to the insane increases in intelligence. It should force you be killed in one hit by just about everything. Frailer than any character class ever in the GF series, not that it would matter, because of your creations shield.

I thought drakons didn't get diamond spray, wasn't it ur-drakons? Seriously, drakons are weak. No matter how you pump all of its stats and levels, it's essence orbs/ diamond spray never gets stronger. IMHO, cryodrayks should get essence orbs but receive an increase in essence cost, and drakons should get some other "decent" spell.

Torment is just an extremely challenging version of Geneforge at "normal". So far, I've observed that: - Enemies have a higher hit % - Enemies hit WAY more (like 100% more or so) - Enemies may be more resistant - Enemies may have higher non-endurance stats - Enemies heal after every round

Quote: Originally written by Alchemy: It's always a little sad when people can't tell that others are making fun of them. Ah, the confusion ensues. Now I've been dazed. However, I've seen nasty arguments on forums because of miscommunication, and I certainly do not want to start a war.

Quote: Originally written by Kuber: You're all wimps. I once played through Geneforge 3 without even talking to anyone, nor attacking anything which used a total number of pixels greater than 50. I was using a Shaper, but I absolutely refused to train in Intelligence. Oh, and I had needles jammed into my "f" key, so I had to click the fight button manually every time. Very possible. I would not distrust you, but I have 4 points/questions to ask. 1. Because you never talk to anyone, you don't need to increase leadership at all. That means a whole lot more points. 2. What difficulty were you playing? I have a hard time imagining this at torment. 3. You could have used DV's "cheap" vlish build. You don't need to increase intelligence that much, or at all. 4. You can't possibly win or even end the game without talking to anyone. You need to speak with Rahul or Akhari Blaze, finish their quests, and take a boat. No talking means no ending. You also need to make your opinion (rebel/shaper) before the leaders will trust you, so you have to talk even more PS. I am not trying to be mean or insult you. I apologize in advance if this offends you in any way.

Quote: Originally written by The_Other_Guy: Technically you could use an editor or trainer and save before every canister you use, then load and adjust the stat with the editor instead. This wouldn't make any difference in GF1, but I did this my 2nd time through GF3 in order to avoid doing stupid stuff without choosing to as a result of my canister abuse. The first time through I played as an agent and thus skipped shaping canisters, but still had negative effects later in the game. You know I'm actually playing through GF1 again myself and basically using everyone. First I joined the obeyers to get their stuff (I had high enough leadership to avoid any quests for any sects), then joined the awakened and gained their benefits, afterwards I made my way to Kazg and joined the takers and I'm still with them until I kill Trajkov and use the GF then I'll switch back to either Awakened or Obeyers. I would definately choose the Awakened except for my concern for the fate of the Sholai although don't they get killed between GF1 & GF2? (when the island is retaken or whatever) GF 1 is great for power gaming. Join every sect, betray them all, use all canisters. Do everyone's quests, then kill them for their item drops. Buy 30 points of luck from Dig. Then kill Trajkov and use the Geneforge. Ultimately, I love GF 1 for its satisfying ending after you use the Geneforge and destroy it, even at the cost of your humanity. For canisters, in all GF games, I usually use all of them. I once played Loyalist in GF 3, and I got so bored of being unable to make great creations and casting half decent spells. In GF 1, you have to use canisters, because they're the only source of power for Shapers and Agents. Guardians will appreciate the bonuses of some canisters as well.

Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: Yeah, actually I sort of remembered that, but wanted to suggest eathing them anyway. But I still sort of also remember having leftover fibers. Are there maybe three in the game? There is definitely one artifact you can make two of, after making all the others. Thats right, there are 3. One in Krya's Refuge, one in the Purification Plant, and one in the Monastery Caves. I don't see the point of making multiple artifacts, even to sell. You should have too much money by that point. EDIT: Spelling.

Quote: Originally written by Leftover Sauerkraut: Quote: Originally written by GoodCnaister: Then try to kill Nazar (SE Icy End) and his army of creations. The ur-glaahks will slay them easily. Or try the Beneri Eo Gates (I think that was what it was called) and take on 15 ur glaahks, battle betas, war serviles (the ones that hit over 100 and slow/terror/charm/acid)and drayks. That is true(however I was playing on normal). For magic resistant creations I had two Drayks to back up my gazers. Quote: Rots start at 38 (max) and they consistently hit 120+, up to 260 with QA, so I don't see what you're saying about 70s and 130s. They can? I must have tested them on something with armour.... I tested them against armor. They do about that much against 3rd tier and upgrades, and the damage is still rather consistently at 120+/hit. Against strong drakons, they averaged 115. The only thing that bogged them down other than acid resistant creations was Akhari Blaze, which I could only get them to hit 60-70, but my gazers didn't do much better (about 110, the gap is far smaller). Plus, all the damage done was in torment, so I'm not sure what happened to your rots. I believe the only 2 things that's not supposed to have ANY armor or resistances at all are Alwan and (possibly?) Greta.

Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: Unfortunately, the only thing you can do with a second set of fibers is eat them for a health boost. According to Schrodinger's FAQ, you can make 2 things with crystalline fibers: Crystalline Shroud and Essence Aegis.