Vent

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Resistance, just like armor, does not always block the exact same % of damage. The exact mechanism is obscure; there is a moderate amount of variance but the average is accurate to the written %. For your example, you don't mention if there were any conditions active on these characters that would affect the results, like Weakness Curse, Protection, or Ward of Elements. In the above example I have to suspect that one of them is active since your results were so much lower than actual resistances. I have under eyes another weird example: No icon state on the character nor on any of the other characters. Character sheet shows 39% Magic Resistance. As far I know, no dread curse, I could check later at Tower of Magi but I'm quite sure. EDIT: Checked no dialog option about that with Throndrell so no Dread Curse. So I have the log, Game Loaded. Then some exploration event and nothing special mentioned. Then the log: Quote: Combats has begun! X resists Stunned. X takes 77 points of magical damages. (0 resisted.) That's all, first round, only one actions occurred, from enemy. With 39% magic resistance, no chance for any curse happened, and full damages, that sucks hard. EDIT: Win the fight anyway but at end got my mage and priest killed, no resurrect availble and best monsters to finish, so a huge XP penalty for Mage and Priest, I hate that. Since my mage is doing the most damages of all, she gets the less xp one more weird (awful) math of this game, and it's not about dying, this fight is an exception.

Constant curse in Torment there's a hellish logic!

Ok thanks I didn't knew the random. It makes resistances look a lot less interesting. That was the first phase of a fight ie first enemy attacks just following a dialog. It was in fact the second, first was physical attack against a character. X is a fighter, Y a cleric, Z a mage. It's hardly a curse the explanation of so weird numbers, alas I don't have anymore the proof (the log) under the eyes. But well it's a dialog chaining so I could probably try reproduce it, I'll try. EDIT: I repeat multiple time and yes that's almost certainly a weakness curse that makes the difference. Two characters got cursed and not the third.

I have under my eyes an example in game log that I don't understand : Code: X takes 55 points of magical damages (41 resisted).In character sheet X has Magic resistance 60%.Y takes 62 points of magical damages (2 resisted).In character sheet Y has Magic resistance 49%.Z takes 71 points of magical damages (0 resisted).In character sheet Z has Magic resistance 39%. WTF is it just random with a max resistance possible? Possibly (or not) it's a same cone attack.

Yeah the path finding for the boat is awful, it's not an action game so if there's anything to mimic it's movements animations of the boat, not wrong controls. Also the little circle showing the command is registered and is working is missing. That said the land path finding is far to be perfect. Towns should be entered only when click inside them and for cave click on the entrance itself. Also if a movement order in outdoor is kept in case you cancel a random encounter, it isn't when you cancel some dialogs from a special encounter in outdoor. I suppose I'm an angel otherwise cows and some merchants in outdoor would be burned to ashes. Also the automatic path finding during fights not knowing swap exists is very bad. In fact it knows it but apply it only when moving and not attacking but also if there's no other visible path even if it's one for multiple rounds. And as highlighted multiple time there's something wrong with long range attack involving automatic (unpredictable) movements, at least there should be an option to deactivate it. Or the key shortcuts (a, b etc) should be shown only on targets involving no movements, but this won't cover area spells not requiring a specific target.

Summon Mastery It is good for both Mage and Priest. But it's just a feeling, I didn't really made comparative tests. Energy Blessing/Energy Boon/Unending Mana It is cool once % increased of Mana means something but that happens rather fast. Improved Attributes They are interesting traits. If as advised you put all points in one Attribute type, still the bonus of To Hit and Damages they give can be worthy. In Hard it can makes a significant difference of To Hit during first levels. Challenger The tests isn't to throw someone in front and quote he already get the focus. But to test situations where the opponent changes its target. For example two warriors in front one with max Challenger and the other with none. Anyway, pure aggro increased automatically is hardly handy, aggro needs control to activate or not. Have it systematically if hardly good. I put 1 point in Challenger and hardly notice clear difference but after I realized it was better not have it after all. Backstab Worthing it but more as an ultimate damage increase when you have no other traits for that. It's too much a constraint to take profit of Backstab even if the principle is fun and it happens often, it's not that often. Sage Lore This is trading 1 traits for 3 skills points that can be a good option for most build. Fortunes and Nimble traits At opposite all those traits that trade 1 trait for only one skill points are hardly worthing it until later if you have nothing better but you probably will always have better.

In theory DW is more damages than all but 20% To Hit penalty. W+S is less damages than all and a smaller To Hit penalty, but a better protection. Pole is in between, more damages than W+S, no protection, no To Hit penalty. All of that seems purely dependent of items defined in the game, but. DW has a dedicated skill and a dedicated trait. And as W+S has no dedicated skill and trait it means a DW can switch at any time to W+S. A possibility that doesn't have Pole. Moreover how the Math are done the damages difference increase when the 20% is always 20% and means a lot during first levels but less and less as there's more levels. There's just an element to counter balance, you have 2 warriors and have both use the same weapon means ignore all pole weapons even if there's one great. Balance better would means a lot, new skills and traits, different maths. But it would have been so simple to had some better and more impressive pole all along the game progression. Myself for now I don't regret because I like using the best poles I find, and prefer diversity to pure efficiency. But I quote that currently it's not even one special pole I use but just a bronze halberd.

Ok I changed the game options to disable the roster order for the actions order. I know it's not cool to not control finely the turns order but for initiative it's a crap option. Since I removed that crap option it's all different. Knowing that my sorceress has a bit additional dex and my second warrior too, and I could jungle with items with dex and quick action to more or less order as I want. So now for most encounters a warrior and the sorceress act first and that change all, it opens some strong options like daze or even have the sorceress act first cast haste level 3 and then the 2 warrior get the initiative right after and I could position them the best. If few times there's monsters acting before it's just one special not the whole mass. That is fun, not the crap of looking 8/10 monsters bashing to front warrior or sometimes the second after some knockback.

Avernum 6 when you wrote "The original Avernum Honeycomb"? Well that's much more a reference of Avernum 1. For Avernum 6 I have no comment I didn't enjoyed it enough to play it much.

Originally Posted By: Superba The original Avernum Honeycomb I agree it was a nightmare in terms of fight, more than this,... Since when have you play the original Avernum? I wonder how you find its Hard difficulty that difficult. In general Avernum at Hard is a lot more easy than AEFTP at Hard but I haven't tried this part. Not only the setup is easier in Avernum but also the economy is very generous this making a huge difference. But it depends also of the level of your party when you get there. This can change a lot the feeling to get there too late when the outdoor encounters are easy. Originally Posted By: Superba different levels contributed to a scary sense of claustrophobia. Maybe confronting the drake adds some thrilling to the place, but I avoid him, Sure if you compare an old play where you confront it to a recent one where you didn't, it's clear there's a difference. That said it's quite probable that many outdoor lost a part of their mood in the remake.

I'm replaying Avernum original at Hard difficulty and it is a lot more easy at Hard than AEFTP.

To trigger such event you need first find the right location, second wait an end of turn occurs when a character is positioned on the right location. So first position the character on the right position, and spacebar to skip turn of all other.

Avernum is far to be from this era of Exile, in 2000 it was already the norm to have a quests log. The diary allows a bit to temper this, probably a lack of time decided Jeff to give up implement a quests log when the remake was done to Avernum. Anyway as I mentioned in first line of OP there's many good points in this remake and I didn't list it but the quest log is definitely one of them and there's more good points. Skyrim throwing clouds all over a not very detailed global map is showing that nothing is glued. In my opinion if quests cursors appeared it's also because it's hard to track the bugs and design good hints that build directions and paths to the player. This is difficult and take time. But is this required for players that will buy this remake, I'm not sure. You seem consider Avernum like a 1995 game but if I forget the graphics, the technology, and the quests log, it fits much more in its era of 2000. A lot of work was done to provides paths and locations hints to the players and the quests cursors destroy all this work. If I'm not wrong few quests don't get a quest cursor on purpose, I think more would have match. Is really the thermal location quest was needing a quest cursor, I don't think so, a location to discover as you explore is instantly destroyed by the quest cursor, it makes the exploration a duty and removes any mystery, and it removes an opportunity of exploration fun, the good surprise to have find it after a corner. I feel the game abuse into transforming any interesting locations in a strict quest and its quest cursor. All of that is destroying a bit of the freedom feeling and then the wild adventure mood.

It's not a review and I agree that my feeling and "analysis" but more "hypothesis" can be corrupted a lot by playing the remake as a replay and the original as a first play. But myself I played Avernum 1 only 4 years ago, it's not that far in past. But like you I'd wrote, maybe it's an illusion. But I would add I don't think so. The work made by Bethesda on that is rather interesting. And RPG designers are still far with a modern approach to succeed reproduce a strong feeling of wild and adventuring, global maps too detailed and quests cursors are killers. But the work made by Bethesda on that is quite interesting and in the right way.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer He's referring to the fight on the lower level of Patrick's Tower. There is an option in the settings to have the party go in order of dexterity and quick action instead of party order. Well I concentrated the class progression on what advise most threads, so dex in my party is low anyway. But start invest in DEX is clearly not the solution in general in this game.

That remake improves many elements and adds many little stuff improving the whole. There's obviously graphics with a better aesthetic and with much more details, but also many dialogs rewritten and reorganized, life level in towns improved through more NPC in street and more with some dialogs, and more. But the remake also lost many elements, there's a streamlining in hope to adapt better to new categories of players, there's many changes in the system to make it adapt to the new system more streamlined, there's many elements not fully adapted to the new gameplay approach or less well done in the new gameplay habits. But what I noticed the most is the degradation of the mood of adventure and wild. It's not an element that easy to pinpoint, ie it's not easy to explain why the original Avernum 1 had a such strong mood of exploring new wild area. So it's even less easy to explain why this is largely lost in the remake. What follow is sort of hypothesis of that feeling I got. Here a list of elements I think they contribute to destroy, at least in part, the mood of wild, the mood of adventure, the mood of exploring new wild lands: Full global map: The global map had large part not shown because that's unexplored area. Now you get a full global map with almost all details. This contribute to destroy the wild mood and your feeling of adventure through non or few explored lands. Detailed global map and showing exactly your position: The global map not only was incomplete but also was a static information not showing you where your party is. Have it now showing most details and where you are and most paths to reach most location, it's one more blow to the adventure feeling, and the mood of exploring wild area. No more poisoned swamps in the outdoor: That removal breaks a lot the wild mood that had multiple outdoor area and the feeling to explore wild countries. Teleporting pylons: Not many of them, but again a little bit that contribute to break the mood of wild and adventuring, plus not really a necessity with the outdoor system allowing very fast travels. The quest cursors on global map: Not only they make obsolete or at least a bit weird many dialogs related to information about paths and locations related to a quest. But also you just look at the global map, give a quick look to find the quest cursor, and here you go. All of that contribute to destroy a wild mood and remove important element of fun in the exploring. Closer outdoor point of view: The outdoor point of view is closer picturing smaller distances. In fact it changes not much theoretical travel time or perhaps not even travel squares distances. But it changes the perception of the distances making them smaller. I can understand it's a necessary evil for better graphics, but it's still one more element destroying in part an major achievement of the original game. Not enough diversity of outdoor graphics: The remake offer outdoor graphics looking much better and with quite more details. But I got the feeling a lot of diversity has been lost, and in general get a feeling of repetition generating a less good outdoor mood. There was something weird in many outdoor places that matching rather well a general feeling of exploring a wild unknown area. About quests cursors on the global map. AEFTP somehow do as bad than Oblivion by reusing it in a game not adapted originally for it. With Fallout 3 there was already a huge improvement on this point, and Skyrim improved it even more. With those last two there's a caution into two elements you can find in Skyrim and at a lesser degree in Fallout 3. Something there isn't in Oblivion and alas not in AEFTP: When you try reach a quest target location you get plenty unexpected obstacles and you need struggle to find a path, it could be an underground passage you need use, a hidden road, and more. When you look on the global map where is your cross and where is the quest cross, you wonder how reach it because there's plenty obstacles not clearly shown on the map. In Skyrim it's why those clouds on global map has been added and why there's many details you won't have on the global, to not destroy the fun of exploration, research of path, keep it a bit wild. Alas triple alas AEFTP use the global map showing all quests cross and where you are exactly, but fail it in the Oblivion way instead of succeed it in the Skyrim way. Avernum original wasn't designed for that, and it's far to be a detail to have this system added in the remake but no good adaptation of the gameplay to make it fit well instead of destroying most of the wild feeling and most of the adventure and exploration feeling. Now to conclude I'd like temper that post, with a quote. In my opinion that remake is still better than what I played of Avernum 5&6. And if you want a RPG with a very open world, that remake is still "mandatory" on your list of RPG to play. Sure I'd be tempted to advise try first the original Avernum, but I don't think that many players can play such oldies.

Originally Posted By: Walker White One of the things that I am noticing about this game is the amount of "legacy content". That is, content that made sense in previous versions, which was converted with minimal effort to make things easier for Jeff, but which really does not make a lot of sense in the modern game... Yep that is very noticeable, to complete the elements you quoted I also noticed: You can ask to hire a room in inns but all are full instead of allowing hiring one to rest. You already quoted the numerous mercenaries that are still here but you can't hire them anymore, the fun part is the reason added in the dialog to explain they won't join. About the shady merchants you also already quoted, there's also multiple dialogs related to those shady stuff that are out of place with the gameplay. There's plenty dialogs about paths and locations for quests related stuff, that look now quite weird when you just need look at your global map and see a cross for the quest, plus your global map is fully detailed and is now an automatic map. For me the last point is the more important, but I'll open another thread linked to this point, about in this remake the lost of the wild mood in many places, the lost of adventure feeling of exploring new wild area, and the lost of exploration fun.

Thanks for the tips but the point is still the same, very bad design. Those poorly designed fights from outdoor encounters seem come from Avernum but I got the feeling that it's in fact a lot worse. The big difference is coming from: More spread initiative, only few enemies react faster than your PC. More spread location, many won't reach your PC before second round. Probably less long range in general. To be clear, it was a point to improve in Avernum but AEFTP make it quite worse. No, outdoor encounters can be designed much better than that: Outdoor doesn't show all details, so have a stupid empty arena isn't a requirement, use some structures could help a lot make the design of those fights less weird. There's no need to have all enemies at once jumping on you instantly. Even without using spawning, use in design groups more spread on the area, generating more or less two waves or a short stream. There's really something to fix with initiative mechanism and class management of the party to not have in so many fights, at least in Hard, some basic all enemies act then all party members act. How about let the player cast outdoor spells and identify better an outdoor group with a look at command? It would be one more tool to make those outdoor fights feel less stupid. EDIT: But in fact what exhausted my patience with those type of fights wasn't an outdoor encounter but the fight in Patrick's Tower with rather similar startup.

I'm more and more bored by those fights startup where a bunch of enemies jump on you and are 8/10 to simply attack you. Either you are clearly stronger and anyway the fight will be a boring crap. Either most chance you get a member death without to have been able to do anything. Yeah it's mainly encounters in outdoor but also I just get that too in patrick tower and no way you could guess it. It's not poor design it's zero design.

Ok then it's more "realistic" but the crap is to make you wait find the book instead of learning the spell level 2, or overall lost money. Bad gameplay system, the newer is much better.

Originally Posted By: Kreador Books ADD 1 level to the spell. You can purchase two additional levels from trainers. The order you do that doesn't matter. That's my understanding. Someone who knows better can correct me if I'm wrong. Yes as simple than that, don't search further, it's just that some people are trying to put realism where there isn't. Originally Posted By: living in my post-war apartment ... I suppose I'm just missing how it worked before, but it makes more sense to me that the spell book gives level 3 rather than just adding another level and allowing me to learn level 3 from a trainer. Except that in previous system the same book could also learned you level 1&2 spells or level 3. It was as incoherent than current system. With previous system you was taking care to use the book only for level 3? Your choice, you can do it too with the new system. For me the new system is better. Possibly a rude design would work too, books would work only for level 3 and the game would help keep track of books already discovered, for example maps user notes would work, or just a special list. And the game should have such list or user notes too for trainers. Particularly now that you can't switch to another application, something rather tedious for quoting in game information the game itself doesn't keep track.

Lol but well I have int 5 for the fighter and Mental Resistance 18. But I suppose the Arcane Lore point give the missing 3 points. Well I look like a total idiot or some poor simple mind, pathetic, I should stop play that game asap!

I noticed my party seems have gain 18 of Mental resistance. I checked carefully one character and finally unequipped all. That character had normally 0 in Mental resistance (despite 1 point in Arcane Lore, probably some rounding in action). Anyway with all items unequipped he has 18 in Mental resistance. I have no Ward. A bug or finally a bless for all the suffering of this party? It's not one character but the party, I checked with a second character by removing all equipment and got also 18. Ha well it's worse I just check with my cleric and mage, all items removed they have 61 and 62 Mental resistance.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer A character goes unconscious in combat as opposed to the entire party getting wiped out and having to reload. In fact when the full party get wiped the game still adds the fallen members in the fallen stat.

Pff I'd wish I could throw an excuse like that (dex) to explain all the troubles I have. I was close to be discouraged and tried explore a lot. I have now 2 full pages of quests, but I finally found some stuff that seems more playable. I suppose it's new stuff brought by the the remake, I don't remember it and a detail hint me I'm not wrong, get a sort of house, well at least an official place to put items. Not that it seems useful because I can't say it's in center and I have yet to find a pylon close if there's any there.