Vent

The controls of the boat are also slightly unpleasant, not sure what's wrong, perhaps a lack of reactivity. Also the passage under the bridge seem disable coasting in places close to bridges where you could coast in Avernum, I haven't check. That said despite the minor glitch the boats are a great feature of Avernum, so of AEFTP.

I regret be the only one to suggest stuff related to tactics but well anyway, some more tricks: Flee is a good option without penalties: In most fights flee is an option and there's no real penalty, XP already got at each kill is kept and you lost no money. To flee you need reach the grey area/exit area if there's one and have end of turn. It's more in the mood than reload. Using flee for playing "real": It's fun to use to play it a bit "real" when you see a fights isn't ok or is going bad, then you can prepare the flee, just one member flee can be enough. But it's a matter of taste and reload can be better for the fun and to learn. Using flee to break a very tough fight in multiple assaults: If this is really going bad you can use flee to tune down a bit one fight difficulty instead of changing difficulty setup for this fight. If you succeed kill few enemies before the flee, in most case they won't be regenerated next time you come, perhaps you need not wait to much but you can kill a few, flee, go to a town to restore and resurrect and come back. Sure it's only for using very rarely but it match some real play where you use flee instead of reload. Give one Priest level to all your characters: Have the option of one of the base Priest spells for all characters adds a lot to tactical choices. It's not for constant use but for casual use or special cases. Even your mage can benefit of one Priest level: With his high int and other related skills, a mage casting Smite will have rather good damages, and this can be useful where there's nothing better to do and enemies are almost immune to the mage spells you have. For Heal spells it's more a problem for your mage because your mage improvements won't help much to raise their power. But sometimes a bit of healing can help. And also it can be very handy for some Curing. Typically cure the Priest before he gets his round and die because of some poison and low health.

Originally Posted By: Soul of Wit Good list for rookies, Vent. Of your tips, the first priority is to move your Priest to last position. This is done in the stats window (click the ? next to one of your characters, then move a character up or down in the lower-left corner of the window.) I find it odd that the game defaults to having the Mage last. Yeah it's just for rookies (for now) but feel free to add more, for rookies or not. And yeah the Priest is in general better at end. He isn't at end by default probably because he is supposed to be more resistant. The Mage has armor constraints the Priest hasn't. I read a nice trick about Priest order in some posts, it's for few fights put him first to have it remove some mental effect before your fighters controlled by an enemy is killing some members. But in practice this trick is perhaps more complicated because it's a matter of attack order if some enemy act after you Priest in first position and before your fighter. If your fighter don't have fast reaction time I suppose it could happen. I haven't tried yet that other trick because when I would like use it it's for fights where enemy has mass control spells like Daze but I don't have the spell to Mass Mental effect removal. I think in practice against an enemy that can control one party member it probably works in all cases if the Priest has slow enough reaction time and the other party members faster reaction time.

Yeah yeah but the problem is it's possible to use them but it seems pointless. You got a case with the lich in Avernum 6 (I played only first parts) but I doubt those wands/scrolls can really change anything against any boss or mini boss fight in Avernum. It's a little bit different with Mass Heal and Cure, at least until you can use them without scroll. And obviously Resurrect is a very worthy scroll plus the Wards can help in any rude fight until you have learned yourself the spell. EDIT: I hope there no similar lich in AEFTP because even before post this thread I had sold all those crappy wands I had.

Manage the damages received is a lot more my own issue than that "miss every round" (but I read forums since the start and quoted the dex tooltip problem). Money is also lot of my issue and I haven't yet found that many spell book. So even by checking the cheaper teachers I hadn't been able to offer my party much training, at max 2 to try for the fun. And not that many spells. That said for both issue and indirectly solving them the "solution" quoted by jetcitywoman would apply because the difficulty decrease make the damages received issue not any more an issue and the shortage of money not a very big problem as soon as there's enough to manage well the progression. But AEFTP is a sort of replay as I played Avernum about 4 years ago, so it's why I'm playing at Hard instead of Normal, as I would have done in general (start Normal and switch to Hard or harder if I feel it too easy, that's what I did with Avadon plus perhaps few difficulty level drop down for few fights). But taking the conclusion that I'd prefer less open world would be a very wrong deduction. I like those like Avadon but also those very open like Skyrim and AEFTP.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer The wheels only open a way to a chest. Take your time and look for hidden switches on the north corridor wall and east walls of the maze. A chest is accessible with first wheel only, the wheel before to ender the dark. But I haven't understood the purpose of the second wheel which is in the dark, nor the purpose of the button it reveal. Sure it changes the configuration but the only chest I found is the same already found with help of first wheel. The only purpose I saw of second wheel is to trigger a fights so I suppose the reward is the XP. I quoted nothing else special, no second chest or something.

When I tried use those scrolls and wands for attack spells I always got ridiculous results. For Scrolls to keep I saw only Mass Healing, Mass Curing, Resurrect, the Wards, but my party is at level 11 only. For Wands, perhaps those Terror Wands but I haven't tried them, all other are pointless and better get the money. All other scrolls and wands seem pointless, for example a few Haste will very hardly change a fight issue, to use Haste during a fight you need a mage knowing casting it. So better sell other scrolls than those listed above, that's my current feeling. What's your feeling and comments about that?

@House: Yeah yeah symbolic numbers more than true numbers. But comparing directly damages reduction and damages given isn't right. Also get the rule that no item with To Hit penalty worth it other than the breast armor is wrong and depend of the items you have. But I do agree that many items with To Hit penalty don't worth it, and overall the items design seems a little failed on that point of view. Also the more you find special items the less there are items with To Hit penalties that are interesting. But the general rule is wrong. @Thoukydides: I didn't wrote that players should use blindly all items with To Hit penalty so your example is pointless. Sure for this case I can't see how the set with To Hit penalties can worth it. @SpellsTuesday: You aren't alone, myself I had often troubles to find step 1 matching. Also it's not always with the final boss that I get troubles. But I share your feeling to make too often dungeons by bits and to have too important difficulty spikes in dungeons. So it's not the exact same feeling but similar. And yeah the cause is probably like you suppose it, my party is also not optimized, but I also feel the money is a bit rare (I don't steal anything marked as owned by someone and don't know all the tricks) so I should probably switch to Normal. But there's something fun anyway and I'm hesitant to switch to Normal.

Originally Posted By: othersean I'm a terrible person, and apologize for spoiling your universe by existing. OMG that's ridiculous I'm only asking the Battle Discipline name and you react like that. Well perhaps I wrote something without realize it, not on purpose, it's just English isn't my language, at all.

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Okay, all of this arguing over dual wielding is getting a little ridiculous. I am going to make some very simple statements that I hope everyone can agree with: 1) IT IS MUCH HARDER TO GET 95% HIT CHANCE IN THIS GAME THAN IN PREVIOUS GAMES. This is true no matter what you are attacking with. 2) HIT CHANCE COMES MOSTLY FROM YOUR PRIMARY STAT (STR / DEX / INT). If you don't invest in it your hit chance will be very bad. 3) HIT PENALTIES come from fighting high level monsters, and to a lesser extent from wearing armor and dual-wielding. 4a) IF YOU INVEST IN STR / DEX / INT it is possible to have great hit chance so long as you do not fight monsters WAY ahead of your level. 4b) IF YOU DO NOT INVEST IN STR / DEX / INT your hit chance will go even lower when you fight high level monsters, wear armor, or dual-wield. I think this lays the matter out very fairly and clearly. Now please let's stop fighting about it. I don't fight I just disagree on some points. There's clearly a problem to manage To Hit in this game and the build you suggest ie Dual Wield lower it, in any way you'll look at it this could be argue. The second point is you look too much at offense and not enough at protection, I wrote "not enough" and don't mean "not at all".

Originally Posted By: othersean ...there used to be a battle discipline to remove its armor. Now that battle discipline also removes said thing from melee range. ... So your complain isn't about Knockback in general, but you made OP and thread title like if you had a complain in general about Knockback. What's this Battle Discipline? And for additional hits, with Gynmastics you get more AP so you can see when you get bonus hit, now ok there's this new ability giving just a bonus hit and for it you can't predict the bonus.

Let take an example to explain that your rule is wrong because it is strict. Mine I'm saying to adjust. There's blessed boots with 8% and -5% To Hit, the Bronze Bracers are 6% with -5% To Hit, and I found Pustulent Graeves with 5% To Hit Penalty and 4% Armor 15% Acid resistance and 1% Evasion. That's 8% more plus 1% Evasion plus 15% Acid resistance exchanged against 15% To Hit. But the point is it's a balance and not pure stats: I don't care kill 15% faster I will gain a full round only after 7.5 rounds, without to mention it will be less because of hit points lost at final blow.At opposite the protection difference can be huge because at each turn I have the option to heal, retreat of something, none if I'm dead. There's numerous situations where a fighter will be outnumbered and won't be hit once but 6 time per round and each time there's the protection bonus. And when he won't be outnumbered this will rarely be a tough case and kill faster won't matter. Against a strong mid boss its your resistance that will make you survive or not because anyway you won't kill it in 2 or 3 rounds or it's not a mid boss. For all those reasons and more it's not pure math. And most often in class builds the damages get a very exaggerated importance, it's a common error (with the idea that the final state matter more than all previous states all along the game)

Originally Posted By: jetcitywoman Ah, but there are secrets and secrets. Have you found the other kind without buttons yet? Ah, but there are secrets and secrets. Have you found the other kind without buttons yet? This game kept me rocking with all the fun stuff going on. Two kinds of secret door, boats, and later, something totally new and col as heck. No hints on that until some people find it on their own, but it's the kind of thing that will make you want to go exploring the whole map again! Two types of buttons and two types of secret doors? Well many buttons are impossible to not quote including some referenced as hidden in some dialogs, few a slightly hidden through a wall texture a bit of same color or some embedding into some stuff, but that's all I quoted, it's still many opportunities of better mid secrets lost, and on iPad most will be most often a nice simple challenge to quote them. I don't even see one type of secret doors, for me they are all opened by some buttons supposed to be partially hidden. Well there's few linked with quests events and without buttons but that's different stuff. Also for outdoor "secret" passages aren't even hidden now. That said, if some dungeons lost a little bit of their mood in comparison with original Avadon (never played the Exile version) and mainly because of the weak light management making using lights almost pointless, well except perhaps to be sure to quote items on ground (but that was better done in Avadon). Anyway that weak light system is still bad for the mood and that point was quite better with older engines. That said the port of the dungeon where you are thrown into dark is well done. Also overall there's plenty elements better, the graphics, the interface, the fights, have the list of quests (but not sure the quest markers on map help the game but I doubt it would have been wise to not use them for contemporary players). I even prefer the class system, if at least the numerous glitch was corrected, like the multiple wrong tool-tips or obviously bugged mechanism like the spell giving only 2% To Hit no matter its level. Ha well for now it's a blast anyway despite I remember many things from a play about 4 years ago.

Originally Posted By: waterplant Or Knockback an enemy through a doorway into another room and quickly close the door on him. Oh, wait... Mpf to have the enemy open the door the next round, very useful... I have quoted few SUPPOSED ipadization like that, but you get used to it and the door thing is a bit minor. For me the worst is the secrets that are no more secrets well apart on an ipad screen for which those huge buttons are obviously done, really it should be an option or even it should be different for ipad and computers. There's one supposed ipadization that I quoted and enjoyed, it's the option for bigger characters, that's cool even if it's only for some messages. About ipad and the global map, it is already hard to read on a huge computer screen, on ipad screen not sure it won't generate some complaints.

Originally Posted By: Cala I am playing on normal, which is actually a big step for me, who prefers very causal gameplay and fun stories. I've died. A lot. Lots and lots. Still, the game play is so open-ended that I have not yet completely failed some boss fight without having somewhere else to go and get stronger at. It's how it is supposed to work and for me too it works like that, even if few time it's some troubles to find what's next best suited. Such structure is very audacious without a difficulty scaling system and that's what make this remake even more priceless, I doubt we will see more like that anymore. There's four points making it quite special: No difficulty scaling when most modern RPG use one. Very very open world with many travel possibilities even with sailing. There's few modern RPG quite open but it's more rare than less open RPG, plus those few modern RPG as much open use a difficulty scaling system. A difficulty level not linked to geography. A same location can includes parts of very different difficulty level. It's not rare you get a quest which is easy in a location when in general the difficulty is quite higher. And it's even more often that in a location you get a quest a lot harder than the general difficulty level of the location. It creates many webs and distant links that are very fun, it make you travel a lot but with the two scale system it's great, it creates less obvious populating and discourage basic approach like clean out an area and check next. The two scale system, the huge plus of this system is making travels a lot more fast without make them feel weird nor without some awful abuse or teleporting breaking a lot the mood. And with such open world with an organization like webs instead of multiple squares with only few links between each, this is generating a lot more travels. Originally Posted By: Cala I feel that it should be mentioned, for the sake of everyone who thinks the game is too difficult, how fantastic the auto-save is. I've never lost more than 5 minutes of gameplay because I failed to manually save before opening the wrong door in some dungeon. Right, myself few time I lost more time... because I had forgot the auto save lol, it's so quick that you don't notice the constant auto save. Originally Posted By: Cala And honestly, maybe some of us just need better strategy. I keep forgetting things like melee specials, and potions, and am always trying to lure critters away to thin out the big groups together. Sometimes I get slaughtered in a fight, and then win the same easily about 10 minutes later, just with better strategy. Same for me, and it's not "lure critters" but it's maneuvering and apply special tactics to defeat the enemy. Attract in an ambush, or in a more strategical position, or even just to break in parts a large enemy group, this is tactics not just luring. Yes take care of melee specials like you do for spells used is helping a lot, but also take care of movements and positioning possibilities and not only hit like a brute, potions when it's hot and detect when it's the moment to try some potions/scrolls/wands, take care of your To Hit not only watching your characters hit or not but also the information in the log. Originally Posted By: Cala I think it's harder than Avadon was, but not too hard at all. Avadon wasn't that easy and had some nice difficulty spikes. But Avadon has a gameplay much more organized so you hadn't much opportunities to attempt fights you wasn't supposed to do at this time of the game, a few time but not much, when in AEFTP it happens a lot.

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S ... Put most or all of your stat points in Strength, and put some skill points into Melee Weapons. You should be doing that anyway for a melee fighter. Then, take off crappy armor that gives you penalties to-hit. Chest armor is usually okay, anything else is usually not worth it. Well Endurance isn't a pointless stat and put multiple points in it can be useful. And if for sure the player should put care into To Hit penalties from armors I don't think just wearing a chest armor is the only possibility. The point is more that players should put care in To Hit penalties from armors, check often the log to quote To Hit chance, then adapt the armoring and leveling. Also there are some items providing some strength, you can use them to increase To Hit or use something else with other benefit if your To Hit is fine. I bet a lot of problems will come from the wrong tooltip about DEX and To Hit, and from players that are used to the series and won't really noticed the To Hit penalties. But it's a nice change to make it less basic than a pure rush to best armoring. That doesn't mean that now armoring is pointless or even a weakness. Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S The penalty to-hit affects ALL ATTACKS, including magic attacks, which CAN miss. That said, people seem to be better about giving their magic-users mostly INT. Magic users are often keep out of range of the battle and when used like that they need less armoring (so lower To Hit penalties) and less Endurance so more points elsewhere. But that doesn't mean Endurance is pointless for warriors. EDIT: In previous systems there was a little gaming to mix armoring depending of STR requirement. So when you get a better armoring item you could use it if you give up some other to use a weaker one with a lower STR requirement. This system still exists but is less constraining because you increase separately attributes and skills. But there's a similar gaming with armoring vs To Hit penalties apart that it is less obvious to adapt, but again the point is cheking the log often to quote the To Hit. And nope there's no need of having 95%, it's better but in most cases 65% plus 30% of To Hit penalties from better armoring will be better. Moreover if your To Hit is at 95% it is probably in fact at 100%, 110% or more and you are wasting armoring improvement.

Originally Posted By: othersean Why, oh why, did "knockback" have to make its way from Avadon to Avernum? Battle disciplines "d c" and "d g" are almost useless, since they move your enemy out of melee range, forcing you to use a missile weapon for your second hit (with haste). So hit first and then use after a special attack with a knockback effect. But also if you don't want knockback an enemy don't use an attack with knockback effect, it's that simple. More seriously, knockback can be useful in some special cases. Here some cases where you could use knockback: To push back and immobilize a strong close range enemy so a weaker one can replace it and serve you as a shield, then you quietly kill the strong enemy with long range. To break some enemy line and reach a mage protected by some other enemies. That's more rare but I remember in Avadon for a fight that made a huge difference. To win some time against a strong enemy because of the ensnared effect. Pushback without any immobilization effect is less useful because you don't have many characters. But If you have two strong enough close range, the first can knockback an enemy to open the passage for the second warrior. And don't forget you can swap another character when you move. But for sure it's only for some special situations, use another special attack if you don't want knockback but have the option can be cool, particularly with an immobilization effect. Also it's clear that Haste providing two attacks is quite powerful. But if it means never move but just make contact with enemies and hit blindly, then you are missing a lot of tactic opportunities involving movements.

Yes I see the point, but is really all attributes need be put in DEX or STR plus some in END to hit and be competent? I mean at Normal and Hard difficulty. For now it's not my feeling with a Hard play, level 8. It looked to me more important to have one very resistant character, and a second more versatile, plus mage and priest more specialized but with some protections anyway. If really the two fighters can't hit, for now it's been only with 2 or max 3 monsters one was a Demon. And then no worry the mage and/or Priest do the job. I put one priest level to the fighters so they can do some weaker additional support in that sort of case, for now extremely rare. There's many reason to build a versatile character, because there's many cases among the tougher cases where have only one character in top front is the easier. But I haven't found a thread that detail the range of tactics so I could have a limited point of view and see only few tactical possibilities among many more.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer ... Character 4 All stat points into intelligence 3 Priest spells 2 Tool Use (TU) (increase Priest spells, rotate between increasing Spellcraft, Resistance, Tool Use, Cave Lore, and Arcane Lore) ... That will make Tool, Cave Lore and Arcane Lore raise a lot too slowly, and those three skills can be spread through the party so no reason to build a weaker character just to save few skill points. For one character like a tank or a more focused character perhaps not spend any point in those skills but spread them into three characters, also to raise them faster. In fact you need them quite fast in the game.

Originally Posted By: Randomizer Not really since it doesn't cost any more to increase the same combat skill one more level than to get a different skill. If you have money later on in the game you can buy other combat skills to increase your battle disciplines. But there are some links unlike before, for example Gymnastics requires either THROW either BOW at same or higher level. Looks to me like a good reason to not totally ignore long range in a build.

Originally Posted By: HOUSE of S Vent, I wasn't talking about you, or anyone in particular for that matter -- several people have complained about not being able to hit while dual wielding. I apologize if you felt offended as that certainly wasn't the intent. I was simply pointing out one of the main observations suggesting it is a general hit chance issue and not a dual wielding hit chance issue. Well I'm tired, you make me feel the idiot I'm sometimes. Ha well, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted By: FnordCola @ ... @Vent: Except that until you get a substantial number of points in Dual Wielding, two weapons give a larger accuracy penalty than a shield (19% vs. 5-10%). While I can't speak for commentators on the Dragon Age forums, many people on here do pretty involved research (Slarty especially). I've also found that in the second half of the game dual wielding is the overwhelmingly superior choice. ... Test of what? Just looking at pure math means few except if all math is better on one side. You wrote "overwhelmingly superior choice" which would mean all stats are better with a 2W build, which I doubt a lot. We get a build with many details around 2W but nothing else for a different approach, where is the comparison? Second Half? Suffer weaker play in First Half to get easier play in Second Half? Why is this better? For me it looks like a very bad advice to most players if they get a tougher play in first half when they learn the game.

EDIT: Oops mis confusion sorry.

Originally Posted By: Kreador When I get one of those summons, I just try to move my party back to ranged combat out of the range of the kaboom. I find them quite useful that way. Ok I won't stop using Call Beast but will try that. The explosion range is very long and retreat is slow but I done it only once not to exploit but flee the Unstable Mass summoned. I wonder what are those that explode. All the Slimes and always? I felt it wasn't always or not with all Slimes. I also noticed it with Unstable Mass summoned.

One more party crushed by a summoned Slime exploding. Well very bad design detail, more a bug or design bug making Call Beast pointless.