Aoslare

Just as in previous games (and A4), the most important factor in damage is the damage multiplier of your attack type. Here's a partial list, which leaves out some items but hits most weapons, spells, and creation attacks: 3 - Thorn batons 3 - Firebolt 3 - Fyora, Unstable Wingbolt breath 4 - Most melee attacks 4 - Javelins 4 - Searer 4 - Artila, Plated Artila, Roamer breath 5 - Broadsword melee attacks (PC only) 5 - Venom batons 5 - Essence Orbs 5 - Vlish, Charged Vlish breath 6 - Acid batons 6 - Ice spray 6 - Cryoa, cryodrayk breath 7 - Submission batons 8 - Wands of disruption 8 - War Trall, Shock Trall breath 9 - Drayk, drakon breath 10 - Kill, Aura of Flames, Essence Lances 10 - Wingbolt, Gazer, Eyebeast, Kyshakk, burning kyshakk, Ur-drakon breath 12 - Reaper batons There is also base damage, but that scales with the mulitplier in pretty much every case. You get one level of the multiplier (i.e., 1-3 damage with Firebolt) for each skill level you have. Several numbers go into that depending on the attack type: PC MELEE: Str + Melee Weapons + Weapon Bonus CREATION MELEE: Str + Attack Skill PC MISSILE: Dex + Missile Weapons + Weapon Bonus CREATION MISSILE: Str + Attack Skill PC MAGIC: Magic Discipline Skill + Spellcraft + Individual Spell Skill This same bonus is used to calculate to-hit chance, except for creations where Dex is used for that instead of Str (for all attacks). Observations: With high enough Quick Action, melee attacks from your PC are equivalent to a multiplier of about 11 (2 x avg 3 vs 1 x avg 6). However, that much investment in Quick Action means your attack skill might be lower than for a comparable magic-user investing in just Battle Magic and Spellcraft. Melee, it looks like, holds its own with mid-level magic spells, but may be somewhat less powerful than Kill spells and Reapers. OTOH, it doesn't run out, and lets you save your essence for Daze or Dominate. ...OTOH, physical damage resistance is more common among creations and serviles and so forth, while magic and ice resistance are still pretty rare. The Ice Lances spell no longer stuns! It also no longer costs essence. Breath from cryoas and cryodrakes still stuns. Also, regular Vlish no longer slow... they confuse their victims?! I haven't finished my creation analysis yet (I am missing a very crucial component... essence costs! Anyone have a list?), but it looks like a number of the later creations do truly excellent damage: Drayks, Kyshakks, Drakons, Wingbolts, and Gazers. War Tralls (fifth tier) seem quite inferior to Drayks (third tier), whose breath does non-elemental physical damage now.

Too much information. Strategy Central was helpful because I constructed it after-the-fact; there were lots of discussions I left out and I only linked to things that had specific useful information. That won't sort itself out automatically as people post. Someone has to do the sorting, and that requires the perspective granted by time.

Does this mean that empty pots and boxes are the new doors? "I can't hit-and-run. Oh, wait -- there's an empty pot around that corner! I'd better inspect it, coincidentally getting out of this kyshakk's sight..."

One of the first things I noticed about G4 is that the relationship between class strengths and various statistics is not as obvious as you might expect. This is an attempt at clearing things up a bit. Disclaimer: I haven't played through most of the game, so some of my conclusions may be suspect. The data I do have is solid, however. HEALTH, SPELL ENERGY, and ESSENCE FORMULAS BY CLASS Warr Serv S.T. Life Infl HP (Mult) 10/8 10/8 8/8 7/8 8/8 (Base) 28 30 28 20 20 SP (Mult) 8/8 12/8 14/8 12/8 14/8 (Base) 20 16 28 28 28 EP (Mult) 6/8 6/8 8/8 8/8 7/8 (Base) 10 10 10 10 10 The basic formula for all three stats is: Stat = Base + ((Level + 1) * Int/End * Multiplier) HP uses Endurance while SP and EP use Intelligence. The important thing to note is that the multiplier is far, far more important than the base score, once you are past the first few experience levels. (I am not 100% sure I have the exact multipliers, but they are very close.) EFFECTIVE SKILL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CLASSES Warr Serv S.T. Life Infl Melee # 11 11 8 3 7 Missile # 9 9 6 5 8 Quick Act. 7 7 3 1 3 Parry 8 8 3 0 3 Battle M. 1 4 1 4 6 Mental M. 1 3 1 3 6 Bless M. 1 4 1 4 6 Spellcraft 0 1 0 1 3 Fire S. 3 1 4 4 1 Battle S. 2 1 4 4 1 Magic S. 2 0 3 3 0 Heal M. 4 2 6 6 2 Intelligence 2 2 4 4 3 This table basically represents several things with one number: (1) Base stats (2) Practical impact of cheaper/more expensive skills for different classes (3) For melee and missile attacks, base Strength and Dexterity stats It basically tells you "For the same investment of skill points, a Warrior will have 5 more points of Parry than an Infiltrator," for example. For #2, if you do out the math, you will discover that the difference between two classes in how much of a stat they can get for a given skill point investment remains relatively constant across any number of skill points. The differences vary depending on how base cost of the skill. That is a simplification, but one that offers a good representation of things. Observations: (1) The two fighting classes get rather significant statistical bonuses related to melee combat. They also get about a 25% HP bonus over the other classes and a sizeable Parry bonus. Large bonuses! The existence of the Servile means that (unlike with the Agent) there is really no reason to make a melee-oriented Infiltrator. (2) The Infiltrator's magic bonus is real, but not gigantic. Compared to the Servile and Lifecrafter, she gets a bonus of about +4 for any given spell. (3) The Warrior is nearly as good at shaping as the shaping classes, especially if you want Fire Shaping. He does however have a 25% essence penalty, and has 2 fewer points in Intelligence. So his creations are good, he just can't have as many. Seems like nice balancing! (4) Despite being awful at magic, the Shock Trooper gets loads of Spell Energy. However, I still can't see any compelling reason to use this character! If you pump shaping skills a Lifecrafter will be better -- it's easy to snag some useful points in magic but you won't have enough skill points to pump all your melee skills to a relevant level. If you don't pump shaping skills much, a Warrior seems like a better deal. (5) If, as suggested elsewhere, the late game creations are very powerful even at low levels, an Infiltrator with shaping skills and high Int might actually be one of the most powerful builds. On the other hand, if the advanced versions (which still require shaping skills of 5 or 6 for the top three tiers) are the best, Lifecrafters will still come out far ahead. Thoughts? Observations? Tomorrow: data on all of the creations.

The Servile is the class I have been waiting for since I started running melee agents in G2. More balanced than I was expecting, though. Analysis forthcoming. Anyone care to explain what this 'Great Change' consisted of?

I'm impressed that Erika's Legacy was the first third-party scenario you played, and yet you have played so many since then. That was the one that turned Erika into a Crystal Soul and kept talking about "Rentarino", no?

What Thuryl said. The later Wizardry games had nice names for skills like that. Legerdemain referred to stealing stuff, while there was Skulduggery for picking locks, and so on.

How many PC's do you play with? One, typically. Sometimes I'll do a party of two or three. Every so often I try six, then remember how annoying I find the experience distribution. How many scenarios have you played? Probably forty or so, over the years, though I've only played five or six all the way through. Absolute favorite BoE scenario? Nephil's Gambit, by many miles When did you get the registered version of BoE for the first time? Several days after it was first released What is the first third-party scenario you played? I'm not sure. The first one I remember was Riddle of the Spheres, but it might well have been another. Favorite all-around scenario designer? Maybe Drizzt. Out of your own scenarios, which do you feel is your best? Let's see, out of the four scenarios I started and never finished... What is your favorite scenario icon? It's been a while, and BoE doesn't run on my current computer, alas. If you could make one BoE scenario into a movie, which scenario would it be? I haven't played most of Creator's scenarios, but I imagine one of those What is your favorite spell? I'll go with Flame Cloud. What is your favorite item of all time? (It doesn't matter how many scenarios have the item in it. Can be one, can be all.) I remember one scenario that had NPCs who were transformed into ego items. That was neat. What do you think is the absolute most overrated BoE scenario of all time? Tatterdemalion. I don't like that thing at all. What do you think is the absolute most underrated BoE scenario of all time? Valley of Dying Things. It isn't spectacular, but it isn't nearly as bad as the way people talk about it. I get the impression it would have insanely better reviews if it were a third-party scenario. If you could add one new feature to BoE or the scenario editor, what would it be? OS X compatibility. What is your least favorite scenario out of those rated 7.0 or higher on CSR? ...Tatterdemalion Which scenario do you think is the worst ever? There's lots of horribles, but only one can be the absolute worst. War of Exile. What is your favorite TM scenario? Nebulous Times Hence What is your favorite Creator scenario? Haven't played enough to judge What is your favorite scenario in the Spheres trilogy? Only played the first one. What scenario do you think should have won the first design contest? Nephil's Gambit, hands down. Name one random scenario that has not been mentioned by anyone in this thread (first that comes in your head.) Election! If TM returned, and he and Kel continued to argue, do you think that should continue, or do you think they just have to duke it out? I'm picturing that scene from Return of the Jedi, with Marlenny as nearly naked Leia, Kel as Han Solo and TM as Jabba. Hee.

One question: please tell me that selling prices aren't affected by reputation with a sect...

Synergy, that -S- gimmick lost its panache a looooong time ago...

It's not important. I'd wager that the characters in said safehouse were based on acquaintances of Jeff's (much like Solberg and Jordan appear to have been) and that was a phrase they used online. Put the cat together with the two ladies there and you can construct a story, certainly...

Quote: Originally written by Andraste: I would like to see the Minor Heal and Curing graphics switched. I always get them mixed up. The bandages just make more sense as a healing spell. The same images for Healing and Curing spells have been used for so many different spells between Nethergate, four Avernum games and now four Geneforge games that they are just messed up in my head. Personally, I'd like to see new healing and curing images that don't constantly get switched around. Otherwise, the images are just confusing.

Dominatrish

What I mean is that GF loads parameters from those files when it starts up. So you aren't just editing one saved game, or one particular occurance of an item -- you're editing every occurance of that item ever. Similarly, it is possible to make the game crash with certain invalid values. So edit a backup. Common sense really.

There is not a guide, although there may be advice scattered throughout this message board. There are three files you will want to look at in the scripts folder, which should begin "gf1" or "g3" or something like that. the items/chars one is the one you want. Most of the entries are pretty self-explanatory, just find the one for the item you want to edit, find the attribute that looks like it affects ability power, and change it. And for the love of god, do this on a complete copy of the game folder, as it affects the whole application.

Quote: Originally written by Randomizer: This one is hard, but doable if you are prepared. This is true of almost any level of difficulty you can find in a turn-based game, though. It's particularly inevitable in Jeff's games not directly because of the business model but because his games are sidequest-heavy. On the other hand, the difficulty level setting is an unusual feature that helps a lot. Torment is usually challenging -- at least until you break the system by making seven levelled-up Vlish or whatever. In any game, if you are an experienced player adept at finding ways to turn the rules to your advantage, the only way to continue being challenged is to impose your own outside restrictions on what you can do. Hence the "single character challenges" and "low level challenges" that float around the net for console RPGs. Try playing any Geneforge as a Shaper-type who doesn't shape. Or try playing with stealth and avoiding *all* XP, not just from combat, only completing the quests that are absolutely necessary to continue the storyline. That could be very difficult.

Clearly Salmon will die of food poisoning from tainted spam.

That was a fake screenshot, edited I assume by Drakey, the evil infidel who spurs on the venomous plots of the Vahnatai Creationists.

Rox0rs. Incidentally, can I say how glad I am to finally, finally, for the first time since 1997, to have totally escaped from the tyrrany of Geneva 10 Bold?

The trick with the vampire is to have a bunch of creations that hit things easily, and then equip the Magic Blessed Spawnerskin Torc of Incantatorialistic Burning Wizardry, so you get the HP bonus from your creations. As a side note this finally makes it worthwhile to invest in Endurance, at least when it's cheap. Has anyone found a use for the Ring of Ma'Ruf that's hidden in Learned Darian's toilet yet?

Quote: Originally written by Nioca: Not in GF1. You only need one level to summon any creation in the game. That certainly isn't true, whether you are talking about levels of Create X skills or the general Shaping skills.

Hey, how do I get past that super-powered magical barrier in the Vahnatai cave?

You need at least 4 points in Animal Husbandry AND several extra points in the appropriate shaping skill at the time you shape a creation you want to use in breeding. Otherwise, they won't be made capable of it. I recommend breeding Ornks so you can get an Oozebeast or a Nine-Headed Ornk! Note however that breeding is in violation of Shaper law and will change your dialogue options in a few places. You can get around this by using Learned Darian.

Err, my bad. I didn't realize you were talking about a user on the boards. Whoops!

Quote: Originally written by S is for Synergy: Slartucker is working out the math right now how much Brain Dexterity affects Digit Coordination and Dumb Luck also required to open the door. For the last time Synergy, Dumb Luck doesn't affect opening doors unless the doors were not given 2 points of Intelligence. And Brain Dexterity is always a worse value than Digit Coordination -- by the time the math is about to favor Brain Dexterity, the 10-cap kicks in. The bonus from the Gazerskin Knickers is still useful, although I prefer the Quicksilver Thong in general.