Slariton

Glaahks and Ur-Glaahks both have a chance of dropping Glaahk Eyes. It's a 1 (in whatever) chance, but Luck helps this -- that's the same chance for the Thahdskin Tunic, for example. Rotghroths, similarly, drop Rotghroth Fangs. As for the other items, there are 10 Demon's Biles and I imagine you'll typically use at least 4 for artifacts. There are at least 6 Madness Gems available plus you can forge a few extra. However, I'm not sure how many specimens of each species can be found. Assuming you want a Talisman of Might, you need 1 random drop from a Rotghroth and 3 random drops from Glaahks in order to forge 6 Charms. But 3 Charms is always doable and 4 only requires one random drop. I'm not sure if you can affect random drops with save-reload...

I went through every single leadership check in the scripts. Leadership is a LOT more important than it was in previous Geneforges. At least, more important than we realized. Leadership is now a prerequisite for numerous quests, and most leadership-based dialogue options involve an XP reward. In Chapter 1 alone having a Leadership of 5 will earn you in the neighborhood of 1500 XP (if you get rewards at their default levels). Having 10 in Chapter 2 will earn you 3150 XP, the Tinker's Bauble, a permanent Luck bonus, and other gold and items as well. Since the experience penalty for being high level has been slightly softened, this bonus is more significant than it would have been in previous games. The highest you ever NEED leadership to be is 12. There are very few of these spots, though, and they are fairly late in the game and not very important. There are other places where you can potentially get a minute benefit out of even higher leadership -- extra damage in two key plot battles late in the game, plus the few reputation checks where leadership can make up for the wrong kind of reputation. In practice, it's really only important to get to 10, and that's really only important starting when you get to Moseh. (You need 10 to help him and there is a SLEW of XP and items available as a result of doing so, especially since you can then kill him and collect on that.) There is one previous encounter (at Tulami Gate) where you need 10, but that's a not very useful one with thahds. There are plenty of 10 cutoffs after him. You can potentially get 6 points from items (Infiltrator Tunic, Shield, and Charm, Dhonal's Band, and +2 from Cloak of Shadows). Some of these are not available till very late, but the Infiltrator Tunic and Shield can be found before Moseh. So you can get practically all the awards with a natural Leadership of 8. Specifically, I suggest this natural Leadership by this point: 4 -- Southforge Citadel 6 -- Therile Colony 7 -- East Checkpoint 7 -- Secured Path (with Inf Tunic) 8 -- Moseh's Bunker (but go north to get the Inf Shield first) The final investment will be 18 skill points (14 for Warriors and 23 for Lifecrafters) and will pay back many times that in skill bonuses and levels gained alone, let alone items, gold, and other bonuses.

I just got the hint book, and I want to say that this is by far the best hint book I can remember for any spidweb game. The area descriptions are good and the easy to find lists of item locations, quests, recipes and cheat codes are especially nice. It doesn't have everything, but that's what people like us are for, after all. Also, the cover (the opening pic) looks great. Whoever did it deserves some praise.

Why do these artifacts suck so much? Seriously, compared to the G3 artifacts, these are not very exciting. Ok, the Gloves of Savagery and Legs of the Tyrant, and the +1 AP cloak are great. The shaping boost items are OK I guess, though much less cool than the ones that boosted multiple creation stats by +2. Why anyone would ever make the Sunstone Belt or even the Girdle of Succor is a mystery to me. Also, it seems like the ingredients are available later in the game -- perhaps that's because there is less duplication of needed and available ingredients. Meh.

Heh. I didn't realize so many canisters were sold. I actually meant buying training in creation skills.

Anyone have a list of what's sold where? As far as creations go, anyway?

It would be tough noogies for that one. It's not going to be able to shape without a Geneforge.

An Artila and Wingbolt of equal level will differ in HP by exactly 65. If yours has half the HP, then I suspect your Artila was not created as soon as possible with 10 Magic Shaping. A few levels make a big difference. (That said, it seems like creations earn slightly less a proportion of your own XP than they did in G3, but I'm not sure about that. I should measure it.) Also, it seems that ice breath no longer causes stunning. The line in the definitions is still there, but I guess it's an out-of-date line that G4 doesn't implement. Sigh! Mental effect resistance, hrm. Running out of energy, hrm. OK, my new plan is to start making Ur-Drakons when I'm at level 3...

They aren't broken the way Vlish were in G3, they aren't even overpowered, but they're very, very good. I was comparing the upper level creations, looking at average damage (accounting for damage type) versus cost. Then I glanced over at the Cryoa, which I had already noticed was one of the better early creations, post-Vlish-nerfing. Then I noticed that if you keep a Cryoa around the whole game, by the time you get access to Cryodrayks, the Cryoa will be nearly as powerful. Specifically, it should be at a similar level, with a weaker attack, slightly lower resistance to physical and cold damage, 400 extra energy, and of course a significantly reduced essence cost. However, if you pump up the Cryoa's strength 5 or 6 times, it ends up with an attack equal to a Cryodrayk's... and it still costs about half what a Cryodrayk does! It actually ends up being a slightly better value than the Drayk, depending on what the exact numbers are. I also did the numbers out for Artila, and they work out OK. Although it's even cheaper to pump Artila Strength, their attack does 1-4 per level of damage rather than 1-6, so they don't get the same return. A level 40 Artila will still only do about 60 damage a shot. As SoT noted, however, acid damage is the most consistent damage type in G4. And both Cryoas and Artilas are available at the very start of the game. If you want to use them, though, you really do need to pump a shaping skill, so you have to make a choice. Either one would work, actually. Magic Shaping is more limited. Vlish and Glaahks are okay, but their damage can't hold up late in the game. Wingbolts are great. However, because Wingbolts (and Gazers) do the oft-highly resisted Magic damage, you will become reliant on the Artila. I think a team of 4 Artila and maybe 3 Wingbolts would be pretty effective, and is fairly cheap in essence. At high levels you could switch the Wingbolts out for Eyebeasts if you wanted. Alternately, since you don't have to pump Int too high, pump Mental Magic and support the critters that way. I find Cryoa more exciting, probably because there are a variety of useful Fire Shaping creations. Also, Cryoa breath stuns, and ice damage is great damage unless you fight shades. (Then it sucks worse than a Battle Beta.) Roamers are available for acid. They will end up with weaker attacks than the Artila would, since they are available later, and they won't be too useful in random fights, but I can think of a few where they'd be golden (golems and pylons, mainly). Drayks are a great value and will be comparable to the Cryoa, but dealing physical damage. Skipping over the expensive, lardy Kyshakks, the coup de grace is the Ur-Drakon, which does huge damage AND slows. Before adding them this team is very cheap, and even with 2 Ur-Drakons it shouldn't break 700 essence, 500 with one. Doable by the time you get them. Anyway, I've just started a game with the Cryoa variant. Put all my points into Fire Shaping and made a Cryoa, once I got to 10 points went into Int. I'm at level 7 now towing two level 20 Cryoas. So far it's a piece of cake. Once I've made another few, I'll start paying attention to all those other skills. (Looking at the character info screen, seeing that Luck costs 1 and not buying it is a tremendous act of restraint on my part. )

You can't find out the number in-game, although Mercedia in the Thellite Colony will tell you if you are above or below 100. You can also go to one of the people who does check the number and see how they react (i.e., Darnor or Mouawad)

Quote: Originally written by F'nor: Alwan hasn't given me the quest to repair Moseh. I've been back to see him and it still hasn't happened. Do I have to betray the Safehouse to him in order to get the quest? Either that, or have a decent reputation with the Shapers and a few points in Leadership. However, as far as I can tell betraying the Safehouse has no actual gameplay effects aside from the reputation change and reward.

Some of the code for fleeing serviles or guards gives experience for each, but is set to only give the reputation change once. I couldn't tell how the Cairn Gates one was set up because it was a few weird-looking nodes in the zone dialogue code itself. Quote: Originally written by Servile Synergy: I'm trying to wrap my head around this, because you say both Rebels and Shapers reference this same sum. It seems like I'm able to get the majority of rewards in this game. Did you notice above where I said there are very few times the number is actually referenced? Look at the chart. Grim and Manohla give exactly the same rewards. Also, Darnor's aren't particularly useful rewards. For some of the quests that depend on you killing someone, you get credit when they die. However, for some of them, you get credit only when you choose the conversation option to tell them you are going to kill them in an overdramatic way. I may try to update this to include which quests can be performed in only one way or in both ways, and also what all the rewards are and the interaction with passes and other flags.

Suppose you tried to do the same thing with a Lifecrafter. You'd have weaker melee skills. You'd have about 1/3 less Health and more than 1/3 more Essence. So as far as being less survivable goes, the difference isn't that huge -- maybe 12% of your Parry rate probably made up for by having creation meatshields, and 1/3 less Health. In practice you'd wear more suitable items to buff your creations, so your melee skills wouldn't be amazing at all. And a Servile can certainly do more damage than any single creation. But far less than even a group of cheap tier 3 creations, if we're talking about Drayks. Randomizer, when you say you maxxed out at 22 Int, are you talking about an essence cap, or just how much you needed?

Something I did not take into account is the difference in item bonuses. Later in the game, there are some pretty ridiculous melee bonuses available (+2 Str, +2 Melee Weapons and +4 QA, to start with one item) whereas the spellcasting bonuses are smaller, just a few that net +1 to +4 per item between Battle Magic and Spellcraft. All told a Servile can accrue, from items alone: +14 Strength +10 Melee +1 Levels Damage +6 QA +1 Parry +12 Vampiric Touch while still making sure to get +2 AP. Throw in starting stats and a meager investment of skill points and you are hard pressed to avoid ending up with a melee machine. Of course, you also have a nice selection of ancillary effects -- poison, acid, curse, and stun -- at your disposal. So we are back to the G1 paradigm of "if you reach it, it dies" -- except that now you can always reach it, you have Parry, better HP, and much better access to much better buffs. Plus, since you didn't have to spend lots of skill points getting there, you can pump Mental Magic to high heaven and never worry about a thing. That said, I'm still not sure that a well-planned regiment of creations won't do better.

So, Shapers and Rebels both rely on one number to tell if they like you or not. It starts at 100 and changes when you complete most quests and a small number of conversations. Obviously, for many of these you an choose the + or - option but not both. Here's a complete list of the things that can change it: -5 Shaila dies -2 Deal with Master Thell for Joakim -3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates -3 Guide Caravan through Cairn Gates (double?) -2 Allow Sandia to escape -2 Free Reiner and tell him to escape -1 Q: Barbaro -1 First Research Notes given to Fackler -1 Lie to Alwan about mission (or refuse to talk) -2 Q: Mars -1 Q: Mouawad -2 Per escaping Servile refugee (?) -2 Destroy Eliza and report it to Pirik -2 Destroy Shaftoe and report it to Pirik -1 Q: Ozyss -3 Destroy Heart (or return it to Darnor) -3 Scout Turabi Gate for Darnor -3 Clear 31st Camp -2 Help Zorin's Rebels escape -3 Kill Eliza -3 Kill Shaftoe -3 Kill Moseh -3 Give Monarch's papers to Greta -2 Betray Archibald to Ellsworth -2 Contact Vecsey for Ellsworth -2 Kill Cantor -2 Kill Tycho -4 Destroy Shaper camp for Litalia -3 Free prisoners for Manohla -3 Kill infiltrators for Ossissess -1 per trapped rebel who escapes (?) -1 Pledge escape to trapped rebels -1 Kill Horis -1 Q: Greta +5 Walk Shaila to Forsaken Docks +2 Betray sinkhole rebels +1 Report Sinkhole rebels' deaths to Crowley +2 Betray Burkes to Crowley +2 Agree with Master Thell +5 Betray Caravan +2 Kill Sandia (or convince her to return) +2 Free Reiner and tell him to return +1 Q: Barbaro +1 Tell Alwan about mission +4 Betray Illya Safehouse to Alwan +5 Help Moseh and report it to Alwan +2 Destroy Moseh and report it to Alwan +2 Show Rebel Papers to Alwan +2 Q: Mars +2 Betray Drewry to Kane +2 Betray Lilly to Kane +1 Q: Mouawad +3 Return Heart to Mouawad +1 Q: Ozyss +2 Kill Zorin's Rebels +3 Destroy Mutated Thahd for Eliza +3 Kill Krazo and Mystithus for Shaftoe +3 Help Moseh +2 Kill Nakel +3 Give Monarch's papers to Miranda +1 Contact spy for Miranda +1 Report scout's death to Miranda +2 Betray Vecsey to Miranda +2 Let Tycho go +2 Kill cultists for Krogstad +2 Sabotage Rebel defenses for Yngrid +1 Kill trapped rebels at fort +2 Help Horis shape new Kyshakk +1 Tell Alwan of meeting with Litalia +2 Give Drakon specifications to Alwan +2 Tell Alwan Citadel's location, but no Drakon info +2 Help all five infiltrators for Koerner +3 Kill Litalia for Koerner +2 Tell Kiki about Litalia's papers +2 Give Rebel Papers to Kiki +2 Destroy rogue trall for Kantor +2 Kill chief and shaman for Dameron +1 Q: Greta +2 Get scrolls for Dalia Here's a complete list of the things that are open to you when the number is high or low enough. The second column indicates whether or not Leadership reduces the requirement. "Yes" means it does so on a 1:1 basis, "1/3" means only 1/3 the value of your Leadership is used. As you can see, there are not actually many points that rely on this number: 109+ Yes Alwan -- Moseh quest (Shaped Breastplate) 105+ Yes Duncan -- training 105+ No Mouawad -- 1st reward 112+ No Mouawad -- 2nd reward (Thirsting Knife) 120+ No Mouawad -- 3rd reward (Ring of Eye's Purity) (+3 Battle Magic) 120+ Yes Matala -- lets you go 115+ Yes Alwan -- Northforge Citadel quest 110+ 1/3 Grim -- 1st reward 124+ 1/3 Grim -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate) 136+ 1/3 Grim -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter) 105+ No Shotwell -- join party 104- No Pirik -- Safehouse key 95- No Darnor -- 1st reward 88- No Darnor -- 2nd reward (Firecaster Gauntlets) (+1 Battle, Blessing Magic) 80- No Darnor -- 3rd reward (Girdle of Life) (+2 Endurance) 90- Yes Gibbons -- buy canisters 100- No Khur -- join party 90- No Manohla -- 1st reward 80- No Manohla -- 2nd reward (Farsight Breastplate) 68- No Manohla -- 3rd reward (Agent's Shelter) 100- No Ossissess -- Kill infiltrators quest N.B.: There are also places in the game where what happens is based on a specific choice you made. This section does not cover those, and they may be important. Perhaps someone who's played through repeatedly can say something about those? Manohla and Grim give the same rewards. There are a number of other places where the rewards are equal: Alwan and Pirik's reward for the caravan mission, for example, and killing or helping Yngrid. With that as a caveat, here is a list of some of the more interesting quest rewards in the scripts. Some of these might be acquireable by killing someone or looting something instead of talking to them; I'm not sure. Joakim -- Steel Sword and Shield Gretchen -- Tinker's Bauble Fackler -- Gauntlets of Succor Alwan / Pirik -- Shaped Gauntlets Kane -- Guardian Stone Mouawad -- Skein of Wisdom Pirik -- Shaped Blade (Moseh) Pirik -- Mindwarp Seal (Eliza) (+2 Mental Magic) Pirik -- Runed Jade Necklace (Shaftoe) (+1 Spellcraft) Trianus -- Shaped Belt Greta -- Mental Focus Charm (+1 Spellcraft) Stubbs -- Demon's Bile Jared -- Singing Rapier (+2 QA, +1 Parry, but d4 damage) Monarch -- Shaper Robe, Armor Band Yngrid -- Infiltrator's Charm Litalia -- Puresteel Necklace Litalia -- Viper's Touch (Shaped Blade w/ Poison Drip) Ossissess -- Stasis Shield, Puresteel Boots Koerner -- Polychromous Shield, Blasted Greaves (+1 Str, +2 End) Koerner -- Spectral Rapier (Litalia) (+2 Parry, +2 Mental Magic, but d4 damage) Ghaldring -- Puresteel Charm (+1 Str, +1 Damage) Learned Hartl -- Impervious Band Szmani -- Projection Belt Ssaroyen -- Puresteel Shield

Hmm. On second thought, I don't remember when I tested this, so maybe I never did for GF1-3. Doh.

I'm in the middle of chapter 2 and have about 7500 gold on hand. That's after spending 5000 on Spellcraft and another chunk of change on a selection of spells. Granted, I haven't bought any creations, but those wouldn't cost too much. I'm sure stuff gets more expensive, but I find it hard to believe there's going to be the massive financial crunch people have been commenting on.

You have to be close enough to see what he is doing, but far enough to not trigger the message you got. I recommend following just behind him as he walks south, and saving just before he enters the room. Then you can try different positions to see what works.

The "regenerating" life drain item enhancement in G3 actually worked quite well for a melee-based PC. I guess that's gone the way of the Emerald Chestguard, huh?

Nope. In Geneforge (and A4) Str, Dex, Int, and End are all determined based on level, and base level is multiplied by some factor dependng on your difficulty.

Assuming it is the same as with every other spidweb game, difficulty affects only one thing directly: enemy experience level. This in turn affects their health, attack power, and dodge and hit rates.

I just searched the scripts. It appears the only items there are unlimited "collection quests" for are Research Notes, Swamp Herbs, and Melted Glass. That's going to lighten my inventory!

Because the essence calls don't actually mean anything -- other than your PC, nobody in the game checks essence when they cast things.

You're right, both of those are random drops with a base chance of 1%. That means that however luck affects the chance, it affects it in a very significant way.

Synergy, I think some of those drops are unique drops and not random ones. That is, individual enemies can be made to "carry" items which will appear when they are killed. Luck will never create item drops, but it WILL increase the chance of random ones, presumably by 1% per point of Luck at least up to 10. Having just 5 Luck makes a really noticeable increase in the number of dropped items. EDIT: I tend to put a lot of points into Luck right away (except when min-maxing vlish in g3). The first few levels are so cheap, it's a no-brainer. After that, it is worthwhile once your other skills get equally expensive, but I buy it sooner to increase my item drops.