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...appears to be pretty constant, regardless of the strength of the attack that caused it. At any rate, my tests with 3 Battle Magic and 17 Battle Magic produced exactly the same results. Stronger attacks just make the condition last longer. This suggests that these effects are more useful at low levels, but also that they are very useful for all singletons, including those who are not magic-oriented. On the other hand, it suggests that high-level status-inflicting creations may not be the best way to inflict them; replacing your artila with a wingbolt and just casting searer once will definitely be more efficient. Damage for poison is around 30, acid is around 55, and lightning aura is around 90.

No, even better -- Cerebrous Wyrm! I knew he (it?) was too cool of a character to be a one-shot.

From memory, I think Alphas have 40% phys and 20% fire/ice resist, so they are better against drayks. Although the clawbug poison effect possibly makes up for this in damage output. Clawbugs have 30% phys. The only real difference between a lifecrafter & shock trooper, as far as defense goes, is the HP multiplier, which shouldn't ever make much of a difference when you are 1 target of 8. (i.e., if you're going to run out of HP, it's probably by a lot and not a little.) Remember that you aren't going to have to invest in shaping skill OR intelligence much in the second half of the game. That gives you over 100 skill points to put wherever you want. Mental magic WILL become a viable defensive option.

Turning in Mehken gives such an amazing reward. It's one of the best rewards in the game, actually, and it's practically the first one you can get. And despite what it would imply, I don't think it restricts you from anything else later in the game -- somebody else might be able to confirm that. The easy, early +3 to Int is one of the main reasons shaping is so great in this game. Combined with incredibly rapid levelling up in the demo, it all but obliterates the early part of past Geneforge games where Shapers have not had enough essence to really flex their muscle.

As long as nobody suggests Erika or Rentar-Ihrno, I'll be happy.

They don't necessarily need to have one at all times. There are areas that are simpler for a singleton with mental magic, than for a half-baked shaper.

Completing the demo area alone should get you to level 15, even with creations. (My munchkin servile got to level 20!) You can have a natural Intelligence of 7 at that point (base 4 + report servile + use geneforge + student's belt). For a shaper-type, getting to 10 in shaping costs only 28 skill points for battle, 34 for magic, 36 for fire. Getting to moderate levels of Mechanics & Leadership is even cheaper, and Int boosts start at 5 a pop. By level 15 you have a total of 85 skill points to play with -- that's more than enough to get, say, 12 Int (for 202 essence), 6 or 8 mech and leadership and at least 10 in a shaping skill. You'll likely have another level or two by the time you get to Quothe in Astoria's caves, anyway. By the time the really good creations are available, you'll likely be level 25 or 30, which puts you at close to 400 essence just from 12 Int. A few more points from level ups and items gets you to an easy 18, for nearly 600 essence. You can get higher if you want. The goal is NOT to start making high levelled cryoas in the third zone, unless you want to go the fire shaping route, in which case you handicap Int and just make two cryoas, which is all you'll need anyway. Otherwise you start making high levelled creations when you get clawbugs, plated bugs, or vlish.

Right, essence is the only real disadvantage since you aren't likely to buy more than 10 or so points in a shaping skill, anyway. The point is that the gap between lifecrafter and sorceress is much smaller than the gap between sorceress and servile -- something you yourself had implied in an earlier post. Buying 10 points of a shaping skill will cost a servile 30 points more than a lifecrafter, and the essence/Int handicap is sizable -- 2 points less Int on top of 6/8 the final essence.

Hmm. G2 and G3 it costs 50. Okay, I'm crazy.

Apparently ice breath uses 30 energy now. It was zero in earlier games, at least in G2 and G3.

Right, that has nothing to do with what I said. ...at this point, whatever.

Originally Posted By: Delicious Vlish G5 shaping feels like G1 shaping. Really it's like G3 shaping. In G1, bonus levels from shaping skill gave +1 to each stat per level, which level ups produced only +1 every other level, so levels gained through shaping skill were strictly superior. Also, a shaper could get to 30 shaping skill in no time at all. G5 is like G3, where creation level ups are important and shaping skill is also important, but at closer to the +10 point.

Battles *are* shorter on Normal. Eyebeasts can run out even on Normal. Cryoa and Cryodrayk attacks use 0 energy, I believe. The fire attacks use 4 energy, and a level 1 or 2 Fyora in G1 is required to not recharge that much energy every round.

If you reaaaaaally wanted to, you could edit a zone script to provide a set of dialogues, checking for various values of the canister use SDF, and telling you which you had.

You missed the point.

G5 has reminded me of an important distinction in CRPG play style that I used to ponder in my younger days. Defensive vs. offensive play style. A party designed for offense aims to be more damage efficient than the enemy. If possibly you kill the enemy before they get to attack. Otherwise, you simply damage them more effectively than they can damage you. Typically, a larger party will be able to do more damage, faster, while still putting enough resources into healing to survive. The weakness of this style is facing strong attacks that take out a normal character in one blow, or that damage everyone at once. A party designed for defense aims to control the battle. Typically this is done through the bottleneck of a single characer. Often a single PC is easier to armor up, easier to buff, and easier to heal. With sufficient defenses, attacks can be executed at leisure. The weakness of this style is facing efficient actual damage that leave the PC unable to both maintain its defenses/health, and attack, in the actions available. The Geneforge series has tended to polarize these two strategies. You can potentially have eight characters with superb attacks; but you only have one character who can buff or heal, and his ability to be armored far outstrips the other characters. * In Geneforge 1, a Shaper with pumped skills could create fresh creations starting above level 50 with all basic stats at 50 or higher, crushing the opposition. Offensive strategy was dominant. * In Geneforge 2, Parry could deflect 95% of nearly all attacks. A solo Guardian could waltz through the game, while a Shaper would have to take pains to protect his creations (newly weak after the engine changes between G1/2). Defensive strategy was dominant. * In Geneforge 3, Vlish could be made so obscenely powerful, for so little investment, that almost any enemy could be destroyed or incapacitated immediately. A Shaper could waltz through the game. Offensive strategy. * Also in G3, a sufficiently strong Daze could immobilize almost any opposition for several rounds. An Agent with good reserves of Essence and HP could get through the game by reducing every combat to one-on-one with an advantage, or by abusing Speed + Daze to deny the enemy all of its actions. Defensive strategy. A similar dichotomy existed in G4 as well, in much more balanced form. In G5, however, it's a little different. The nerfing of the Speed spell means that for most of the game, singletons can only count on *one* action per round. Combined with the better mind effect resistance many enemies acquired in G4, this makes Daze insufficient on its own to get a singleton through the game. Without manipulating the battlefield frame with tactics like Charm or Acid Shower, the singleton simply cannot reduce incoming damage enough to get by. Offensive strategy, on the other hand, approaches (but does not quite reach) G3 levels. Pumped + levelled up creations blow through everything. Just some thoughts.

I'm guessing you no longer think the servile shapes just as well as the sorceress.

No, no, no. This is how powerful ALL creations are when used properly. P.S. It was definitely possible to turn the AI off in Geneforge 3, and in Geneforge 1, with a good setup on Torment. In fact I never turned the AI on for my team of Vlish in G3, not for the entire game. (Granted I did get bored and quit before the Monastery of Tears.)

Eyebeasts will run out. Wingbolts can, potentially. Gazers can too.

No -- the old way to extract the text doesn't work on G5.

*blinks twice* Somehow, I didn't notice the +4 AP on Rotdhizons. Rotdhizons are not hands down better than War Tralls or Wingbolts, I think, but they are certainly a very useful companion to the Trall. But yes, this is what I have been saying all along, DV. G4 is very close to a return to G3 levels of creation power, thanks to the immense amount of experience points available in the game. Shaping is disgustingly good. And you really don't need to waste points in Fire Shaping. Just put it in battle.

Interesting -- it does suggest that a higher tier, level 60 creation with pumped dex -- this is realistic for, say, a battle beta -- could become very difficult to hit.

On Torment, doesn't every incoming attack connect *anyway*?

Neither were most G4 PCs. Unless you conclude that the PC really was unknown to the games, the nine classes available eliminate all options.

Note, however, that you do not need to pump said stats at all until later in the game. Pumping them in the beginning would be a giant waste of essence. Also, I'm not sure it's really necessary to boost Dex at all, unless you start missing.