...are from Tibus

A level of damage is basically an extra die, in tabletop RPG terms. It's fairly easy to see that all damage ranges in GF are summed dies. Thus a 4-16 damage dagger is 4d4, the sum of four random numbers between 1 and 4. This works similarly for missiles and spells, though the numbers may be different. In GF2, at least, and GF3 is probably the same, Firebolt was d4, Searer was d5, Ice Bolt was d6, Kill was d12 I think. I'm not 100% sure the "+X to levels of damage" works this way, but it looks like it does. Basically, it's like +X to battle magic (and presumably to damaging spells like terror, too), missile weapons and melee weapons, except that it doesn't give you the to-hit bonus.

Convicingly argued, SoT. I suppose if you are a loyalist, you -are- in a rather unique position. And as for the rebels, I guess Litalia and Hoge would have a harder time going undercover -- though considering that most of the other shapers have never heard of Litalia and don't know anything about Hoge's defection, I don't know that it would be that hard for them. True, they have OD'd on canisters, but you can do that and get things done just fine. The really confusing thing, though, is WHY YOU? It is apparently not an accident that you were not killed in the attack on the school. Why no fuss over, say, Greta, who is clearly sympathetic, and seems to have had nearly as much training as you? (If the GF1 shaper who's "years away" from learning simple magic spells can master shaping, surely Greta can too.) And why save you, when no one seems to have any idea what you think of the conflict?

I think this is a question of the plot outgrowing the basic game assumptions. On Sucia island, this made perfect sense, since your appearance on the island was a big deal and you were, inherently, one of the most powerful forces there. There were few settlements and each one had spies from the others! In GF3, it makes very little sense -- similarly Litalia's apparent obsession with you.

The +2 levels damage from the Chestguard is great for agents, as it affects spells as well as melee and missile combat. The weight difference isn't that huge - Chestguard is 20.0, Shroud is 12.5. That's less than a point of strength in encumbrance, and late in the game one point of strength is a lot cheaper than two levels of magic.

The two mechanisms could easily coexist, seeing as they don't overlap at all. GF1 you use the tool like any other item, one by one; GF2/3 for the auto-using you click on the lever/chest. Really I just hate having to cart around any more living tools than I need to, since they are a pound a piece...

I put together this list of random drops a while ago, pulled straight from the GF3 scripts... it sounds like some of you might find it useful. Note that this only applies to enemies with random drops, so it does not apply to most named characters, or some slight variants of fyoras or thahds, etc. Note: each of these items has a specific chance associated with it, in I think percent; you can find these in the scripts. I'm not sure if Luck affects item drop chance like it once did. I haven't noticed a difference, at any rate. Rogue, Enraged, Warped Fyora = Perfect Fyora Scale Charged Fyora = Fyoraskin Shield Rogue, Brutal, Unstable Thahd; Thahd Shade = Platinum Ring, Coins Charged Thahd = Thahd Skin Tunic, Gemstone Rogue, Plated, Searing Artila = Artila Eye Charged Artila, Inferno Worm = Student's Belt Ornk, Rogue Ornk, Oozebeast, Detonating Beast = Meat, Meat, Meat Servile = Coins, Coins, Cloak, Dagger, Sandals, Platinum Ring Guard, Rogue, Warrior, Plated Servile; Servile Defender, Servile Vat Tech, Servile Power Tech = Coins, Coins, Cloak, Bronze Sword, Sandals, Gold Ring War-Bred Servile, Servile Icecaster, Servile Cultist = Coins, Coins, Acid Thorns, Bronze Sword, Sandals, Gold Ring Rogue, Rabid, Guardian, Icebreath Roamer = Roamer Fang Rogue, Submission, Terror, Corrupting Vlish = Vlish Tentacle Spectral Vlish = Healing, Curing, Speed, Major Healing Spores Spawner = Gemstone, Lovely Crystal, Beautiful Crystal Turret = Thorns Venom Turret = Venom Thorns Burning Turret = Acid Thorns Submission Turret = Submission Thorns Reaper Turret = Reapers Fighter = Coins, Thorns, Javelins, Healing Pod Warrior, Elite Warrior, Blademaster, Guard = Coins, Venom Thorns, Steel Javelins, Major Healing Pod Specter, Specter Sage, Ghost = Agent Cloak, Miner's Gloves Rogue, Wounded Battle Alpha = Chitin Armor, Chainmail Vest Rogue Battle Beta; Battle Gamma = Chitin Armor, Iron Breastplate, Coins Glaahk, Rogue Glaahk, Ur-Glaahk, Rogue Ur-Glaahk = Steel Dagger Mage, Wizard, Researcher, Lankan = Gemstone, Fiery Wand Pylon, Energy Spire = Coins, Coins, Coins Rogue Drayk = Gemstone, Coins, Coins, Perfect Drayk Scale Rogue Drakon, Rogue Ur-Drakon = Perfect Drakon Scale Rogue Gazer, Rogue Eyebeast = Eyebeast Eye Rogue Rotghroth = Rotghroth Fang

Well, it's not like there's easy newsflow in any of the GF games. These kinds of questions are hard to address in open-ended, computer-based RPGs like Jeff's... the player will always find something unexpected to do. Dialogue pretty much has to be pre-scripted, and you can't predict everything.

Emerald Chestguard def 50% +2 AP +2 levels damage +2% resist all +18% resist stun Crystalline Shroud def 16% +2 AP +30% resist stun +12% resist all +3 creation strength Shroud for shapers, Chestguard for guardians/agents All-Protector def 12% +5% resist all +20% resist stun +2 levels damage Essence Aegis def 12% +2 spellcraft +2 healing craft +1 int Both are probably inferior to Quicksilver Bulwark, but Aegis for shapers/agents, All-Pro for guardians Infiltrator's Ring def 2% +2 dex +2 leadership +2 mechanics +2 luck Avenger's Ring def 6% +15% resist stun +2 melee weapons +4 quick action Infiltrator's Ring for anyone except melee guardians Creator's Belt def 20% +2 creation str, dex, int, end Lightning Girdle 6% +1 AP +3 parry +2 dex Belt for shapers, Girdle for guardians/agents and then there's the spectacular, spectacular Talisman of Might +4 str

Actually, I *really* miss the manual living tool use. It meant that you could use just enough tools to get a lock within reach of your Unlock spell. In G2/3, if your Unlock spell is just SLIGHTLY too weak, you have to waste a full set of tools, not just 1 or 2.

I'm just impressed that we have yet to see GIFTS in the Geneforge universe. *shiver*

Well, missile weapons have one major drawback that melee weapons don't: they run out. While you have convinced me this isn't such a big problem, it IS still a drawback. Javelins in particular deserve to be better than melee weapons since they are so heavy, as opposed to, say, thorns and batons, which are fairly plentiful and easy to cart around. Also, missile weapons don't get extra attacks from Quick Action. Finally, there are some situations where not having a melee weapon already equipped is a disadvantage -- say you get stunned to 5 AP and your target runs up next to you.

The problem with relying on crystals is that there are only so many of them. They are plentiful, yes, especially if you take the time to forge extras (ugh) and there are plenty for tough fights, but not enough to use against regular enemies. I suppose using a melee weapon you haven't supported with too many skill points is okay against them, but any other primary attack you put points into -- whether magic, melee, or shaping -- is freely available 24/7. Heck, there are so many essence pods in G3 you don't even have to restrict yourself to the weaker spells.

Impressive! The agent is definitely my preferred class, but I tend to play them like guardians -- with the G2/3 skill point system, their only real physical deficit is 3 or so points of QA and Parry, and little bit of HP, while having better buffs/dazes is super. I always found that melee attacks were more consistent than magic, even for my agents; Firebolt in particular annoys me with its proclivity to miss, and the slower energy restoration rate in G3 makes me less inclined to rely on the stronger spells. However, I've never focused on the magic skills to this kind of degree. Thanks for the idea... I'll have to try this if I play through again.

The thing to keep in mind: Experience penalties from having allies are constant (it will always be 8% per creature, or whatever it is) However, experience penalties from gaining levels are exponential. Ever notice how the 32 points (or whatever) you got for killing a Fyora quickly drops to 16, 8, eventually 1? 1 or 2 levels can make a drastic difference in the amount of experience you get. The net result is that singleton players will always have more experience than full parties -- but only by a little; they will constantly hover just slightly ahead. I don't know if this was Jeff's intent, but there's no real game mechanic incentive to run solo. (The incentive there, I suppose, is that it's less hassle to move your party around, and often easier to keep 1 player alive than a full party of 8.)

Also: 203 - "+1 to levels damage in combat" bonus 200 - I forget what this is, but it's on Tek's Spectral Dirk for you and Arcane and Projection Bands for creations.

Drakefyre- as mentioned previously (I think in this thread, possibly in another) the complaints about inventory management are mostly about the *complete* lack of keyboard management *except* for picking up items. Given that GF3 pretty much encourages you to carry around various infiltrator items, etc., to switch on and off, it becomes a huge hassle to click move click, click move click five times before and after every door I want to jimmy. That said, for picking up items, once you get up to I and J it's hard to remember which key is which box and I've mistaken the j label for an i an awful lot of times. Click move click is very slow. What I would envision might be a highlighted item box, which you move around with the arrow keys, and a small command set - d to drop, e to equip, and so on. It certainly wouldn't have to replace the clunky mouse movement, for those who appreciate it. Of course, this is all nitpicking.

I'll second everything Matt Thorn said. As for the first version of Exile being bad quality -- HARDLY! Sure, the graphics were primitive in comparison with Geneforge, but game was damn beautifully done. Back in 1994 pretty the only current, well-made Mac RPGs were Realmz and Exile (plus a few odd ports like Might & Magic III). Realmz had glossier graphics, but ran sloppier... Exile had an attention to detail in gameplay, and in general game construction, and balance (not to mention the backstory) which was downright AMAZING for its time.

As far as I can tell, the % in the ratings for armor, etc. is not particularly relevant. It may be that effects max out at 100%, but 100% armor certainly doesn't reduce damage, or chance to be hit, by 100%.

Heal also says "increase health," whereas augmentation says "increase maximum health." Does essence shield heal you? I can't remember.

That "tiger" business -- the power to summon demons and shape barred creations and yourself, et cetera -- is part and parcel of the shaping business. That's one of the main arguments used by the loyalists, especially in GF3 -- that such power has to be tightly controlled to avoid the chaos we have seen in the GF series. But isn't the real underlying point of GF that such chaos is inevitable, if you are going to play with that kind of power? That's why the ideals of the Awakened seem so spurious... humans exist without shaping; serviles don't. And that, too, is why Sucia island was barred... Among fantasy stories, video games included, one of the most common motifs is of some great evil power which should have been destroyed, but instead was sealed; and after many years it unleashes destruction on the world. In the case of shaping/augmenting, "destroying the evil power" doesn't really mean destroying the geneforge (or whatever) so much as putting safeguards in place, and improving capacity for judgment in society... because the power can always be recreated from scratch.

GF3 is definitely *not* the first Spiderweb game run that way. I can't remember how Nethergate handled things, but the earlier Exile games definitely did not keep track of items you sold. Almost no RPGs will keep track of that, frankly.

There -are- however a handful of items which will increase your Shaping stats. Off the top of my head, there's a necklace, a robe, and the bracelet from the testing grounds.

But isn't that too radical to come out of nowhere? The Awakened were only born after many years of isolation from Shapers, many unusual years during which the values of the serviles were free to evolve.

AFIAK there are no special buyers for iron bars or gemstones. And yeah, I kept stockpiles of them, too.

whoa. the debug codes can change stuff done flags?!?