Mike Montgomery

I finished GF1 with all 3 types on torment. A Melee Guardian on torment is doable, especially since you can find some help for magic skills really early on. I recall playing my Guardian with the Agent cloak. Getting that 100 energy for haste is a real turning point, because what a Melee Guardian needs most of all is action points. In some cases with tough melee enemies, the best melee strategy is strike, then back up 7 AP. The enemies run to melee range, but don't have enough AP left to strike. I think agent was the easiest character at the end, because greater daze was just broken. It never failed, even on the strongest of enemies. So as long as your energy/essence held out, you could attack, daze, attack, daze, etc., and the enemy never gets a chance to hit at all.

Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: ...Alwan can eventually get a lot of hit points, but he never gets parry or raises his resistance with items. My game with him was as a melee Guardian without creations. I figured we'd be a good team, two of a kind; but he was constantly getting blown away by attacks that just singed me... I kept Alwan alive most of the time as an Agent. Essence Armor and/or Steelskin do wonders for his survivability. Also, after he takes 80% damage or so, I just pull him back if I don't feel like healing him right then, because I can usually spend the time doing far more damage than he does. Sometimes the enemies will chase the injured Alwan, running right past me, using all their action points and not getting off a shot, and I can finish them off. In late game, I felt he was often worth the essence needed to protect him and keep him alive. With some magic resistant enemies, sometimes my best recourse was to spend my energies healing Alwan, so that he could do melee damage that was often double what I could do with magic. Greta is always useful. There is no need to justify a decision to keep Greta. Alwan is more borderline as to whether he is useful, which is why I was detailing how I make Alwan useful. Unfortunately, you don't get to keep Greta as a loyalist, so you have to figure out how to best use Alwan.

Quote: Originally written by Retlaw May: Right now I'm on the second island with my no canister loyalist and he has some trouble with the vlish because they act before him and the one hit and then poison kill him. A question I have for you is how did you get your action points so high? For the action points, make the Crystal Shroud or Emerald Chestguard as early as you can for +2AP. The Crystal Shroud can be made pretty early. Later, make the Lightning Girdle for +1 AP. As for the vlish acting first, the trick is to stay in combat mode for tough areas. I don't know exactly where you are in the game, but if you have used speed, you will have 12 action points. Otherwise, you have to make do with 8. Always stay unencumbered; come back and pick up things after you have cleared the area. Staying in battle mode also makes your protection and war blessing spells last longer, which you should always have on all your characters. If you spot an enemy, back up until the enemy is just out of sight range, then end your movement. Make sure that your other characters are also just out of range. The when a new turn starts, you will get the first action before the enemy can do anything. Also, make sure you don't move your last movement point or two. If you exhaust your movement, your last point or two might put you in range of an enemy, with no action points left to back off. I like using acid attacks with Vlish, since they tend to run when injured, and if you pursue them, you often run into other Vlish who have been summoned by the injured creature. If the Vlish was hit hard with acid, you don't need to pursue. A turn or two later, you will usually be notified of the experience gain from the dead Vlish. I invested nothing in quick action, and had no problem use the combat mode tactic. I do not recommend spending a single point in QA unless you are using melee combat, where QA can sometimes give you a free second melee attack.

I did some experiments, and Greta's damage seems to be improved by strength. This is counterintuitive for this kind of attack, but I guess it makes it consistant. I liked having both from a combat viewpoint. Even when Alwan is just sucking up some damage and running away, at least that damage was not done to my character, and I can heal him easily later. Late game, he gets over 500 hit points, which can be boosted by magic. So he can really take a lot of damage that might otherwise get to your agent. As a shaper, where you can make your own cannon fodder, perhaps Alwan is not so useful. Still, he does not take up any of your essence, and is a minimal experience drain. As for dialog, both are annoying at times. I can't believe Greta is so facinated with a generator that produces very powerful out-of-control rogues. Given all that we have seen, I can't believe Alwan does not see that a little bit of kindness and gentleness can go a long way toward defusing tensions, thinks that a stricter policy is needed, and rebukes me for stating otherwise. They are both nutcases in their own ways.

Quote: Originally written by Nick Ringer: Did you ever consider charging up armor that you intend to sell? It's a total loss of coinage, but hey. A few less times getting acid lanced to death is worth using some common powerup. I charged up several things I ended up selling, just not usually with golden crystals. With several pieces I used orbs of mist, which supposedly made you harder to hit. Hard to know if that helped or not.

Thanks for your feedback, Delicious Vlish. I'm still not sure if I should have put less in leadership (how much leadership is needed for various favorable options), endurance, parry, or luck. I feel like I had enough intelligence. For tough areas, I could spend 140 essence buffing with Essence Armor, Steel Skin, and Augmentation, giving my agent exactly 500 hit points, and a lot of resistance to damage, and still have 450 essense left for mass energize, protection, and lots of damage and healing. So if I had backed off on one of those areas, I would have put the points either in spellcraft or one of the specific Magic Skills area. My agent had 11 AP not hasted, and 16 Hasted. That one extra action point was useful to either step around a corner to attack, or to back off one space from attackers so that I did not default to a melee attack. With the 15 spellcraft, all of my magic skills were effectively at level 23-24. I could have raised this maybe 3 more levels across the board, or raise one particular skill 6-7 levels. With GF1 and GF2, Greater Daze made almost any situation trivial, with enough energy and essence. At a much lower mental magic level than 24, Greater Daze would affect everything around with 100% effectiveness. With GF3, Greater Daze was much less effective. It was still a useful tool, but not reliable enough for cheap tactics like attack, attack, daze; attack, attack, daze; repeat until dead, where the enemy never even got a chance to hit back. Removing the over-powerful nature of the Greater Daze in GF3 made it much more tacticly challenge, and more interesting. I wonder if another 6 points in mental magic (30 total) would have restored Greater Daze to the 100% effectiveness of GF1/GF2? If so, it would be undoubtably a great investment of skill points. But even so, I liked the greater tactical challege of not having an overly powerful greater daze. I would still like to hear from Retlaw May as to what the specific difficulty was with the no canister agent. I am wondering if it is near the beginning of the game, at the Lair of the Creator? This area was the toughest for me to complete with my added contraint not to use pods/spores/crytals. I found that with speed spores and 6 icy crystals, I could win. I could not win with less. But you can bypass the whole battle with 10 leadership. So that is what I did. Which is why I might have ended up with more leadership than I really needed.

I played a no-canister loyalist Agent on Torment on G3, and it was not so bad. I did allow the two people to alter me, but I don't perceive this as having the same dehumanizing effect as canisters. To increase the challenge, I played this without using any pods, spores, crystals, gems, etc. I was tempted a few times to use essence pods just to avoid taking the time to go back to a safe area when low on essence, but I wanted to stick to the challege. Using some pods and gems could make some of the toughest areas much easier. As an agent, the only spell you don't get is Battle Roar. Not such a great loss. You lose a few extra points on some abilities as well, but again, not a major loss, as long as you careful hoard and allocate your skill point. For example, I delayed increasing spellcraft until I could train two points first. This made the first part of the game a bit harder, but saved a lot of skill points. Also, you don't need any skill points in Healing Craft if you are just a bit patient. And you can still finish the game with 8 healing craft, more than enough for all abilities. I put no skill points in Strength, Dexterity, Melee, Missile, QA, or any kind of Shaping. My most questionable choices were a few points in Parry (after training two points of course) and Luck. I might have put too many points in Leadership and Endurance as well, I'm not sure. Fully equiped, my ending agent stats were: Level: 40 Experience: 39266 Health: 301 Essence: 590 Energy: 1369 Coins: 19994 (I had tons of stuff left over that I had not bothered selling, because there was nothing I needed to spend money on.) Armor: 121 Fire: 106 Cold: 109 Energy: 106 Stun: 158 Mental: 157 Poison: 109 Acid: 106 Strength: 9 Dexterity: 12 Intelligence: 19 Endurance: 11 Melee: 2 Missile: 4 Quick Action: 3 Parry: 8 Battle Magic: 9 Mental Magic: 9 Blessing Magic: 8 Spellcraft: 16 Fire Shaping: 0 Battle Shaping: 0 Magic Shaping: 1 Healing Craft: 8 Leadership: 14 Mechanics: 16 Luck: 8 When necessary, I could get 20 mechanics swapping out my gloves, necklace, and robe. (I could get to 21 by swapping my shield also, but an extra shield was too heavy to carry around, so practically speaking my max mechanics was 20.) What in particular did you consider the main loss of cability of going without canisters for an Agent? Perhaps I can help with some strategy ideas?

Quote: Originally written by The1Kobra: You can make a golden crystal ... though you get enough of them anyway, so it probably isn't worth it to make any. I had used golden crystals on every piece of equipment that could accept enhancements that I was wearing at the end of the game, and two items that I ended up selling, and still ended up with 2 extra golden crystals. As for the other enhancements, there were loads of extras of each of these. The ingredients are far more valuable that the resulting crystal. So I would not bother to make any golden crystals if I were you.

Quote: Originally written by MagmaDrakoon: [QB]Something like a logic-game: put all genes in correct order to obtain normal creation, or try to change genes positions for amazing effects! Maybe, you can still shape normally during travelling, but if you go in a shaper lab, with adeguate skills (here another function for shaping skills!)/equipment (resarch notes, shaping equipment or other) you can try to create something new! And if you make something good you can choice to "record" ... QB] I like this original suggestion. Like most mutations, a random mutation would with very high probability result in disability or death. But perhaps certain research notes could contain clues based on countless hours of research by others. And by obtaining sufficient clues and solving (like a logic puzzle) one could come up with a gene pattern with an enhanced ability of some kind. There could be several different advanced abilities to find. It could be like having clues from 6 different logic puzzles intermixed. First one would have to make sure of what puzzle each clue went with, and then when sufficient clues were obtained, solve the puzzle. The puzzles would have to be randomized at the beginning of any new game in some way, so that a spoiler would not be useful. For example, a gene pattern in one game might be: DDAABCD, for a different game CCBBDAC. (Each letter gets substititued for another in the pattern AND relevant clues.) Sounds like a lot of work for the designer, but sounds like a lot of fun, too!

I left them alone because I was playing a sympathetic loyalist.

Quote: Originally written by Dmknoiygba: ... Besides, if the rebels did go out of their way to prevent needless deaths and just killed the loyal Shapers, then the rebel path would be the justified and moral path to take, and there wouldn't be a good enough reason to side with the Loyalists. G3 would loose some of its replayability. Some people would be happier with a decent choice to take, but G3 really isn't that sort of game. It's a "Choose the lesser of two evils" game. I resumed G3 and finished a game as a Loyalist. Even if the rebel path had prevented needless deaths of innocents, there would definitely be moral conflict. I get the impression as a rebel there is no option to destroy the Geneforge, and the Geneforge we saw from the previous two installments is an utterly dehumanizing device. The rebels also manufacture and use canisters, which have a more gradual dehumanizing effect. So there would still be plenty of moral conflict, if this is what is desired. Does anyone know for sure as a rebel if one gets the option to destroy the Geneforge?

Quote: Originally written by Axem Ranger Six: I really don't remember dialogs talking about lots of servile deaths. ... Were there any dialogs that stuck in your mind, maybe, that you can point me to? I remember when I talked to some gatherers on the first island, in the area where the gatherer is that complains about how Lankin stole her notes on the best gathering points. This has been awhile back, but I recall them talking about how many of them were killed by rogues. And even now, they had to risk their lives to continue gathering or starve, and gatherers were being killed in the attempt. There are other dialogs where you find groups of serviles cut off and starving, and they talk about how they were all that were left of their group, that the rest were killed by the rogues. Even those serviles and gathers the rogues don't kill directly, if you were not there to intervene, you get the impression that they would gradually starve to death. Sorry I don't recall the dialogs exactly. Maybe sometime I will start a new game and journal these dialogs.

Quote: Originally written by Come On Pilgrim: Track 4: The spawners, I'd like to point out, don't just kill serviles, or even many of them. The spawners on Dhonal's Isle, which are the ones that particularly annoyed Mike I think, those are malfunctioning and yet they seem to mostly take out loyalists. Various members of Greiner's army die, including at least one Shaper, whereas we only see a few servile corpses. The spawners kill anything, serviles or otherwise. The dialogs indicate a lot more servile deaths than the servile corpses you see. The reason for army casualties is that the army is trying to make the area safe again and protect the serviles. The army confronts the rogues, while the serviles run and hide. Look at what a rebel victory means using these tactics: the shaper army is defeated by the rogues, and the rogues rampage everywhere. I get the impression on the mainland that the rogues are too plentiful, the army is too few, the rogues are destroying everything, and there is no place safe to hide. I am much happier with the rebel tactics used on Gull Island. Unhappy serviles are coordinated to take action together for their freedom. No rogue generators. Very quick victory, with minimal need to rebuild, since rogues were not destroying everything.

Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: Hmm, I could certainly buy that Lankan found that he actually had a lot more to rebel over than just the latest batch of rogues. He could well argue that a jumped-up apprentice clearing out the spawners was a fluke, and that the unworthiness of the Shapers to rule remained proven. I don't remember the dialog exactly now, and the files are on another machine, but I think they must not have made these kinds of points explicitly, or even hinted at them, or I wouldn't have felt disappointed. Regardless of what Lankan thought of shaper rule in general, he owed it to his people to guide them home. They were starving out there, and for no real reason, since their original problem had been solved. Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: As to spawners being terrorist: how much do we actually see of their rogues killing serviles? I don't remember finding any big heaps of servile corpses around. Some servile casualties would of course be inevitable, since the Shapers surround themselves with serviles. And serviles are frightened of rogues, so the rogue incursions do traumatize them. But it never occurred to me that the Rebels' spawners were targeting serviles. I assumed that the serviles fled when rogues took over a zone. There were maybe a dozen dialogs talking about serviles being killed while trying to do their jobs, and the remaining serviles fleeing and hiding out, and starving to death. Several times you see groups of serviles hiding out on the brink of starvation that don't know how to get to safety. You see plenty of bodies laying around. Most zones have 4-6 bodies or skeletons. But I think these were mostly human fighters. As for serviles bodies, for the most part they are not shown I believe. Otherwise, most zones would be littered with bodies. The rogues kill indiscriminately. They do not spare serviles. Even those serviles who are not killed are often deprived of any means of getting food or making a living. Some of them risk death to try to gather anyway, and many get killed in the attempt. This is what the dialogs say, anyway. If some people set up hidden generators that spawn monstors of this sort near your town, would you consider it anything short of terrorism? Even if the police and army tried to protect, there would still be a lot of civilian casualties. And if the problem were widespread as it indicated on G3, armed civilians (militia) would need to help, since the police and army would be spread too thin.

Quote: Originally written by Student of Trinity: ...On the other hand, what is so wrong with the Rebel means? They make spawners to attack Shaper settlements, but Shaper settlements do seem to support the Shaper regime fairly directly. What should they be doing instead? The problem with the spawners is that the rogues spawned are mindless engines of destruction that attack indiscriminately. Supposedly the rebels are trying to liberate the serviles. Guess who bears the majority of the damage from the spawners? Serviles. A random group of rogues is no threat to a shaper, but can kill serviles and humans. This is why I said the spawners were a form of terrorism. Instead of directly attacking enemy forces or leaders, both methods focus on killing innocent non-combatants. As for what to do instead. Diplomacy is a useful tool, as well as propoganda. Publish about the gross mistreatment of serviles. This is how many countries got animal rights laws in place, to deal with abuse. Appeal to the better nature of the shapers, like India did with Great Britian. Then assess. Are many shapers sympathetic with the servile plight? Are there some hard liners in power that are keeping down the more moderate voice? Use agents or small tactical teams to eliminate the hard-liners. If you are finding the shapers as a whole are not sympathetic, then war may be the only means of change, but focus the war on the leaders and combat forces of the shapers, and don't let the helpless serviles take the brunt of it.