Magenta

sorry, I'm confused about your confusion. If you are unaligned, you do not get a quest to "Leave the mountains". You have to decide when it is time. If you haven't been paying attention, you might not have completed the two essential tasks to get a "good" ending. That's what the save is for. But now that I think about it, the latest autosave would probably do as well. Maybe that's the reason for your confusion. I quit using autosave when it started saving at odd intervals, usually at an awkward spot. I liked it better when it was only on zone entry.

50 minutes ago, Slariton said:

"Save first" is always a good idea.  In this case though, the "point of no return" feeds directly into the ending, there's no chance to save or anything in between.  So you can't get locked into leaving.

Right. I meant before you go back to Drypeak Ascent. If you leave too soon, you might decide you have some unfinished business you should have taken care of first. Especially if you are unaligned.

Thanks! That's what I was hoping to hear!

Maybe I am misremembering this, but I think in the OG series you reached a point where adding more skill points to a given stat did not give the same boost as before. Is that still a thing? Also, if you go beyond level 20 do you continue to earn skill points? Seems like that used to cut off at max level which was 30 at the time. Can someone confirm that these are no longer issues?

1 hour ago, Slariton said:

Go back to where you began and take the path back to civilization.

Save first - you might want to change your mind if you do this too early.

From a role-playing viewpoint, it actually makes sense. If you decide to be unaligned, it means you decide you don't need anyone to tell you what to do next. You get some suggestions from certain unaligned NPCs but the decision is up to you. Instead of having someone take you by the hand and tell you where to go and what to do, sometimes it's fun to be able to chart your own course.

Without being too spoilery, there are people who can help by giving advice on what to do, and give you training to at least partially make up for advanced training you might get from one of the sects. Look for people throughout the map who either prefer to be unaligned themselves, or who are loyal to the Shapers. They are not just in the areas around Drypeak. I usually stay unaligned for most of the game even if I plan to join a sect near the end. 

Those Shoai are up to no good  I just know it. So I dedided to wipe them out in Buck Creek and Shandoka both (after I finished their quests of course). Later when I went to collect a reward from the Emissary, I found that she went hostile on me.  Interestingly, in Buck Creek, Drayk Grimwing remains just as nutty (and friendly) as ever.

Obviously the entire area went hostile when I attacked the Sholai, but this does not make sense from a role-playing standpoint. Even though she is in Shandoka, the Emissary has no reason to care what happens to the Sholai there. I've seen the discussion here about Ajax, and I get why he goes hostile - he is a loyal Barzite after all. But the Emissary - why does she care? Should this be reported as a bug, or am I making a big deal over nothing? I'm guessing it would not be too hard to fix since an exception was made to keep Grimwing friendly.

Personally, I think scaling the experience based on level is genius. I'm not fond of min-maxing - it's a little too tedious for me. I'd rather just enjoy the game. But I also know that some people enjoy the challenge of squeezing out every last shred of XP they can get. The genius part is that this game accommodates both approaches nicely. 

It's a truly open-ended game where no matter which way you go, everything works out. If you are getting very little XP in one area, it's probably because you got more than expected in another. Or because you are being very thorough and clearing as many areas as possible. I enjoy clearing those areas - they often give very different challenges requiring different approaches. And those little bits of XP do eventually add up. It's not like you have to get 100,000 to level up. In the end, everyone ends up somewhere close to the same level. Sure, the min-maxers might have a level or two more than me, but I'll get a little more XP for taking out those final bosses.  Once I realized this, I quit worrying about XP and just focused on enjoying the game.

I think if Spiderweb ever changed this approach, most of us would ragequit in dismay.

Yeah, that wasn't gonna work with my solo agent. I leveled up, bought another point of Wrack, and found a pacification wand. Then I was able to slow them down enough to take them out. What was killing me was the nine hits to my one or two. Or none if I got stunned. But thanks for the advice. I may try it next time through. It also helped to understand that I could retreat just enough to keep the next shade from popping up before I dealt with the minions from the one before. I sometimes forget about that tactic.

Got it. Thanks.

In the haunted area of Stinking Marsh, I expected six shades, one at a time. That's the way I remember it from the OG release anyway. The hint book even says they stop when you kill the sixth one. They are coming at me two or three at a time, and you do not get a break to save. They get two or three attacks apiece to my one, so if you try to run away, they catch up with you pretty fast. I lost count but I am a LONG WAY past six. Does anyone know how many there are, and what level they get up to? I play on Normal.

Thanks! 

Something I've been wondering about. I don't know if I skipped through the dialog too quickly or what, but it seems something happened to them, but I did not learn what. Does anyone out there remember?

1 hour ago, Sudanna said:

like clawbugs seem to be

Clawbugs are the worst! When the earth destroys itself, and you think there is nothing left but the cockroaches, the clawbugs will come in and destroy them in minutes.

16 minutes ago, BenS said:

I fully expect a multi-game run w/ the future remakes. I can hardly wait.

Me too, but it will probably be YEARS. I'm going to try Avernum next - I've never played it. Maybe it will keep me busy until #2 comes out.

Hope this is non-spoiler enough: The closest to where you are is west through the mines and continue on that path. Another one is several zones north of Pentil. Let me know if you want to know how many zones west of the mines or north of Pentil. 

17 minutes ago, BenS said:

I also loved this remake, playing it 4x--a record for me for any SW game. I also completed a Torment run for the 1st time. I'd say this all bodes well for the future remakes.

Congrats. I don't know about you, but I struggled on Torment. I'm glad I did it though. Besides the extreme satisfaction of knowing I can do it, I also learned a lot about different approaches to combat. And I was surprised how many different approaches it took. 

It's just over two months since Mutagen was released. It has now taken over as my all-time favorite RPG, replacing... you guessed it... the original Geneforge. I continue to be amazed at Jeff's ability to weave together a story that can be played and replayed in so many different ways. This is role playing at its best. I have joined all the sects at one time or another, and played without joining any sects. I have played as a Shaper, and a solo pacifist Agent. I played as a Guardian who Feisty Slapped the S#$% out of some well-deserving Sholai and rogues (thanks for the tip BenS). And played again as an mostly solo Agent but not pacifist. I have played normal, veteran and torment. I'm not very good at combat, so I fully expected to fail on torment, but there were these medals, and well, I had to at least give it a try. I would be embarrassed to admit how many times I died and reloaded, but persistence paid off. I not only finished, I cleared all the areas before using the Geneforge, except of course Guarded Docks. And yes, I earned all the medals.

After all that, I still can't wait to start another run. This time I want to play as a Shaper again. For some reason, this is the hardest role for me to play. From time to time, I will find myself using Agent or Guardian tactics, which is not the best use of the Shaper's innate abilities. I find it interesting that there is no longer any incentive to keep the same creations around for a long time. This means you can create and recreate them as needed for each situation. I know some people feel like expendability means destroying their beloved pets, but I don't think that is how a real Shaper would think. Shapers are arrogant SOBs, who use their creations as tools, not pets. If your hammer breaks, you might be annoyed but you just get another one. There is no remorse over lost tools. At least that's how I plan to play it. We'll see how it goes.

Persistence pays off. And a little luck. Enough of them finally got close enough to each other where I could deal more damage with airshock than what they were dealing. I'm pretty excited about it too. This is the first time I have played on torment, and I even did it before using the Geneforge. Good times.

Back to heal and cure...

I just realized that the cockatrices in Barrens Bunker heal and cure themselves every time they attack. Or at least they do on torment. Don't know about the other difficulty settings. Makes you rethink your approach to battling these critters. Acid is worthless cuz they cure almost immediately. Anyway. I'll figure something out. Back to the topic at hand, since the logic to do it is already there, it makes me hopeful that in future releases, some of that can make it into creations that we can make. 

Just a curiosity question. I have only been able to finish Swanwick's last quest late in the game, like after using the Geneforge. At that point, there really isn't much opportunity to give the cockatrice a try. I was wondering if anyone had used it, and how it fared?

2 hours ago, alhoon said:

That's because you play an agent/guardian. My Shaper is the weaker of my team.

Right. When I play as Shaper, spending time healing is not a problem. That's my job. It's also the hardest role for me to play, because I like to get involved in the fighting also.

1 hour ago, Ociporus said:

And, the Charmed Plate DOES make DOMINATE possible when it would otherwise not (for example).

Maybe I do not understand the problem. The original question asked about equipping the singing rapier, which does require minimum melee skill. I did not think you needed a minimum skill of any kind to equip the charmed plate - just the strength to carry the weight.

How about a creation that can heal and cure? Sometimes it seems like I spend more time healing than fighting. (can you tell I'm playing torment for the first time?) I have a tendency to play guardians and agents solo, because it seems like such a waste for them to spend so much of their AP healing, while their weaker buddies do the fighting. Maybe make it an available skill on one of the magic creations. Or maybe make a special creation to go with the ornk and the cockatrice. Then there could be a whole story line to go with it. Or maybe I just need to get better at combat?