Vlish[G5]

[Delicious Vlish]

Some of you might remember Phobia. My all Vlish build. I've done it in every Geneforge game. Most of the time, Phobia was a Shaper, occasionally an Agent, and in G5, Phobia became a Sorceress.

 

I honestly thought I'd be having more trouble than I am, relying on magic damage creations, but this is not the case. Turns out the Sorceress has just enough oomph to carry a dedicated Vlish pack through most of the game. (I haven't finished yet) I brought magic shaping up to 10. And you know what? It hasn't hurt my build at all. At least, not yet.

 

Mental magic is of course the center of the build.

 

A vlish created with 10 magic shaping is nasty. NASTY. Now, this isn't quite G3 vlish, with slowing and cursing, but the cursing effect is strong, and with multiple vlish doing it, enemies just aren't able to do much to damage me. Of course, they don't live long either. I can crank out over 1000 damage in a single round and I haven't even hit the endgame yet. Damage goes up if haste kicks in. Damage is still going up as the vlish gain levels. I am wrecking everything I encounter. Highly magic resistant foes are taken out in brutal vlish melee, with feisty tentacle slaps of pain. I haven't been bogged down at all yet, although I figure I will eventually face a bit of a grind.

 

I did have a plated artilla in my pack for a while for acid damage, but I can apply acid my self. I might allow an eyebeast gazer critter later.

 

Vlish are an extremely useful and even moderately powerful creation in G5. Sadly, they do not have the power that they did in previous games, but the sorceress provides the oomph needed to thrive.

 

The build has merit. Vlish are cheap, essence wise. I have more essence to play with. With a high level shaping skill, they start out exceptionally strong for the point in the game when you get them, and remain strong, well, at least up to the point where I am. (Meeting Ghaldring) I was able to clear the nasty serviles out of the wastes, hunt down rogue packs in the forts, I was even able to clear out the glaahk infestation. Couldn't do a lot of damage to the glaahks with vlish bolts, but I was able to wear them down with acid and ice bolts. The good news is, the glaahks weren't able to hurt me much at all. We're talking about disappointing damage done in the single digits, when they even managed to connect at all.

 

One or two vlish provide a nice synergy for your creations, but a large pack of vlish will absolutely cripple enemies and make it difficult for enemy packs to do damage to you, or even hit you reliably. I've noticed that I can cut loose with spells, even spells like shocking rain, (which sucks) and I can do so with impunity, because the reprisals I receive in return are mere tickles. Stuff can't hurt me. In the Shadow Road, I was actually running up and stabbing the patchwork gazer monsters in the middle of the map with my sword. Not only could I hit them, but even having no melee skill to speak of, I was able to connect and hit them quite hard, and on the odd occasion they managed to chomp me, damage was negligible.

 

With regeneration running, there are times when you feel absolutely immortal, even on torment, as nothing can damage you enough to counter regeneration.

 

A part of me wishes for a return to slowing and stunning vlish bolts of previous games, and a return of terror vlish.

 

Slarty, you ran a shaper using a vlish pack in G3, you ought to try this. You'll have fun, I promise!

[Randomizer]

How are the vlish swarms against Unbound with scripted area effect damage like in Gorash-Kel? I know you mentioned attacking outside the area effect range to counter that part, but you still need something to pin the Unbound to a wall.

[Slawbug]

Last month you argued against this kind of build. Honestly, DV, your romanticizations of builds are wonderful and compelling but they are not strategically compelling.

 

Vlish are nothing like they were in G3. They are still powerful, because creations are the most powerful mechanic in G5, bar none. And they are better costed than in G4, now that they are at 30 with 2 Intelligence rather than 41. Remember how much you whined about the supposed fragility of wingbolts? Well, guess what -- vlish are even more fragile.

 

If you make any 7 creations with reasoning shaping skill, and either keep them around or update creation types, you will roll over everything just as you are experiencing here! It's not the vlish.

[Delicious Vlish]

Please note, this is not a strategy guide. This is a me screwing around with a running theme that I go through every game post. This wasn't meant to be a perfectly min-maxed strategy. It was a lark. Do you understand where I am going with this now?

 

I was surprised by how well it was working out.

 

And yes Slarty, in this case, it is the Vlish.

 

Allow me to explain. The curse bolt. One or two curse bolts are one thing. Multiple incoming curse bolts from higher level vlish completely de-fang an enemy. Wingbolts couldn't do this. Even the hard hitting golems of the stoneworks couldn't muster up a lot of physical damage.

 

I didn't think the character would be this strong. I remember the hair pulling experience of G4 and I wasn't sure if I was looking forward to this. G1, G2, and G3 were great. G4, well, G4 wasn't so kind to the Vlish. G5 so far has been a return to power. Is it an ideal build? No. Obviously. Phobia has never been an ideal build. I mean, come on, raising magic shaping on an Agent? It is blatantly obvious what sort of build this is, and it certainly isn't a serious one.

 

Relax, lighten up. Have fun.

 

BTW, I was able to take out the eye tyrant in the wastes and get the forbidden band. You know, the ring with +1 all stats. That was an interesting and somewhat hairy fight.

[Lilith]

Cursing is indeed an advantage that's almost unique to Vlish, but multiple curses on the same enemy won't have more effect than one curse; all it does is increase the duration. It'd be better to spread their attacks around so you can curse multiple enemies.

[Slawbug]

Do they really de-fang enemies completely? Everything I've looked at has suggesting cursing just gives up to a -4 penalty to levels of damage (& -20% to hit) which isn't much when we're talking about, say, a rotghroth which will have 30 or more levels of damage per hit at minimum. But I haven't experimented with vlish much so I could be wrong about this.

[Delicious Vlish]

Originally Posted By: Thuryl

Cursing is indeed an advantage that's almost unique to Vlish, but multiple curses on the same enemy won't have more effect than one curse; all it does is increase the duration. It'd be better to spread their attacks around so you can curse multiple enemies.

Interesting. One of two things is happening then. Either this info is wrong, because it doesn't reflect in game experience, or high level vlish that come from a high level creation base must have really powerful curse bolts.

Because I am seeing rots with 5% chances to hit, single digit damages, etc.

I don't know what is going on exactly, but I do know what I am observing.

I know when something attacks and curses me, and does so repeatedly, it keeps lowering my hit and damage rolls. I've experience this with my serviles and a few melee based characters I've scooted through the game.

More important question, what does it take to bring a rotter down to 5% chance to hit?

Just how much cursing does a curse bolt do?

[Uberdhizon]

Quote:

rots with 5% chances to hit, single digit damages, etc.

I'm not just saying this as spam, but that seems like a glitch.

[Delicious Vlish]

If it helps, I also go around spamming Wrack, just for kicks and giggles.

 

Not power gaming, just goofing off. But the results are good.

[Uberdhizon]

I still think that a rotghroth doing 1-9 damage is a glitch; I've never seen anything doing that much.

[Randomizer]

That really goes against what I've seen on the receiving end of multiple vlish curses in Dera South Shore. My melee characters still could do significant albeit reduced damage. This was after they removed my buffs and sent it into definite negative territory.

 

Maybe you found a bug in the game. Single digit damage is significantly below what those types of creations should do.

[Delicious Vlish]

The acid does full damage...

 

But the physical damage is very, very low. Some of it is absorbed through armor values or protection or whatever is causing some of the damage to be negated. What is left is low damage rolls. The roll might be 21 damage with 12 absorbed.

 

I've also been noticing that things haven't been getting their full action point value. I can't say for sure how many action points they are getting, but there are moments after being slammed with multiple vlish bolts that enemy monsters appear to only move what looks like 4 or 5 tics of movement and then stop before they can reach a vlish and attack.

 

Is something stunning the monsters enough that they are losing AP? I know if your character gets slapped hard enough, you can occasionally lose AP the next round.

 

I have ideas, but I don't know enough about game mechanics to know if they are valid ideas. Like... Can cursing lower your stun resistance? If so, are you more likely to be stunned on a hard hit?

 

There is something funky going on, but I can't put my tentacle on it. I'm not sure what is going on, but my observations tell me something is, well, weird.

[Slawbug]

Originally Posted By: Uberdhizon

I still think that a rotghroth doing 1-9 damage is a glitch; I've never seen anything doing that much.

Where did you hear this? It's baloney! Rots do the same melee damage as almost every other creation, 1-4 per level. They do slap acid on, but the acid damage is applied per round and maxes out regardless of how much there is or how many times they are attacked. 1-9 is nonsense.

A number of creations do 1-8, 1-9, or 1-10 per level before resistance is applied _with their missile attacks_. War Tralls, Drayks, Drakons, Ur-Drakons, Gazers, Wingbolts, etc.

[Lilith]

We're not talking 1-9 per level, Slarty. We're talking 1-9 damage period. By "that much" he means that little.

 

DV, are you sure your difficulty is set to Torment?