Scenario File Format

[+t]

I see there peoples skilled enough to make their own Editor. But have anyone(Jeff Vogel, I'm asking you too) subj? I tried to understand it by examining sourcecode. I decided that it'll take too many time(Jeff your source is complitly mess. I still wondering: how do you make your projects to work?) Anyway if i'll get file format, soon there will be another PC version of BoAE. And my be at next spring i'll start port Avernum to Pocket PC. BTW, what do you think about that?

 

I hope you understanded me right.

[teh banana]

You consider porting the Avernum-trilogy to Pocket PC? What do we think about that? LOL, is what we think.

 

Someone with better understanding of the copyright infringements (sp?) and stuff will tell you, why exactly. ^^

[+t]

Not a whole trilogy(I have played in all Avernums 2-3 times. That enought for me ), but only Blades with their Free-to-use scenarios. And by the way, last thing what can stop me to port is copyright.

[Kelandon]

I have no idea what you just said except that you're talking in some way about mucking with the BoA Editor to make a new version. If you want to do that, I strongly recommend trying to port the 3D Editor to PC. The 3D Editor is probably one of the major reasons that all of the scenarios that have been released so far have come from Mac users.

[*i]

FYI -- I did mine in the standard editor.

[Dastal]

I believe that the reason there is so much more stuff from Mac editors is that they have been there earlier. That said, the Blades of Avernum Editor, at the moment, is close enough to freeware that, if you wanted, you could port it to PocketPC no big. On the other hand, the reader for it, ie Blades of Avernum, is shareware, and you have no right to the copyrighted code. Additionally, the code for scenarios is likewise copyrighted, under shareware, and creating a reader for a copyrighted format is similary copyright infringement.

[Lilith]

Psst -- "freeware" isn't the same thing as "open source", and "open source" isn't the same thing as "public domain". You can release something for free, and even allow modification of the source code, without relinquishing copyright.

[+t]

I knew that my english is poor. But i did'n knew how much. So I'll try say one more time, what i said but in more basic style.

1.0 I'm serching for BoA Scenario File Format. I mean specification(*.txt, *.pdf, ie _document_).

1.1 I CAN get specification from source of BoA. (I can do it even without sourcecode, FYI)But as i said earlier it's REALY time consuming. I don't have enough of free time to do that. And my time is too valuable to do that all day.

1.2 But if there is no specification, I'll spend my time to make it.

2. Using that specification, I'll make my own BoA Editor for Windows.

3. Using that specification, i'll write my own program for Pocket PC, that will be like BoA game itself. I.e. "scenario executor".

3.1 I'LL NOT PORT BOAEditor to Pocket PC. Becouse it's meaningless.

4. I'm REALY DON'T CARE ABOUT COPYRIGHT BY ANY MEANS. PLEASE DON'T POST HERE YOURS THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS LAW. THERE IS ONLY ONE MAN, WHICH THOUGHTS ARE IMPORTANT TO ME, JEFF VOGEL,NAMELY. I'M ASKING OTHERS DO NOT BOTHER.

 

Thank you for your time. Have you Blades of Avernum Scenario File Format Specification?

[Kelandon]

The scenarios are, obviously, .bas files. I would think that would be fairly obvious just from looking around at the files that come with the demo. But perhaps we didn't make this clear:

 

MAKING A NEW VERSION OF THE BOA APPLICATION, THE "SCENARIO EXECUTOR" AS YOU CALL IT, WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

 

EDIT: And, come to think of it, might get you banned from these boards.

 

EDIT 2: But #2 on your list would be a really good idea and should be encouraged.

[Khoth]

There is no specification released. I doubt anyone, including Jeff, fully understands the scenario format. The Mac scenario editors released have been modifications of Jeff's, and have not (as far as I know) touched the file I/O section of the code.

 

If you don't want to reverse-engineer a specification, you could base your editor on the code for the existing one.

[+t]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:
The scenarios are, obviously, .bas files. I would think that would be fairly obvious just from looking around at the files that come with the demo. But perhaps we didn't make this clear:

MAKING A NEW VERSION OF THE BOA APPLICATION, THE "SCENARIO EXECUTOR" AS YOU CALL IT, WOULD BE ILLEGAL.

Who said, that i have only demo version? I have a full one. And By the way, MAKING A NEW VERSION OF THE BOA APPLICATION WOULD _NOT_ BE ILLEGAL. Even in USA. Illegal will be spreading such application _and_ earning money for it. I'll not sell my Pocket PC version. May be I'll not even distribute it(or may be will. Anyway, it's illegal for you, and i think you will not use it as "law-abiding citizen". Am i right? .

Of course i CAN use Jeffs engine. But shurely I'll not do that. His code not only "smells", it is as a matter of fact, "stinks".

Well, no one have format specification. Bad. It will take more time create my own.

Actually you all was useless for me, but anyway thanks for your time(that, as you americans, call political correctness. isn't it? LOL)

[teh banana]

You, sirs, have problems. And no, that's not flaming, just a fact. ^^

[+t]

Quote:

Originally written by Dancing With Myself:
You, sirs, have problems. And no, that's not flaming, just a fact. ^^

Surely we are. Everyone have problems. My work is kind of "understand problem - solve it" for your information. Only God, Nature and deadmans didn't have them. You know why? Yes, you right: because they lifeless. In light of all of that, i consider, that your post IS flame.

[teh banana]

got me tehre, didnt u, heh, whatre u, a ************* genuis ur sumthin lol. well anyway shere, have a cookie. or lol, two haha XD !!1! XD

[Kelandon]

Well, the license does have a clause about not reverse-engineering the code in any way. It would in fact be a violation of the license, which is a legal contract that you agreed to by purchasing and using the software. Hence, you would be in breach of a contract, which is illegal.

 

But you don't exactly seem like the most reasonable person in the world, so I'm not going to say too much more on the matter.

[KernelKnowledge12]

Quote:

Originally written by +t:

2. Using that specification, I'll make my own BoA Editor for Windows.

If you do plan on making your own BoA Editor, please consider using the wxWidgets (fromerly wxWindows) framework to power your application, as it is an incredibly comprehensive, cross platform UI.

[Imban]

Apparently, you come from some sort of country with no laws. In the United States of America, reverse-engineering proprietary software and distributing modified copies of said software is against the law. While the illegality of it is mostly based on how much the developer and/or publisher care, if they ask you to cease and desist, Americans must legally do so.

 

Also, regardless of your nationality, such talk and/or action will get you quickly and painfully smacked with a ban, so don't do it.

[EDWARD, HAMMER OF THE SCOTS]

Imban: It's only the case if one reverse-engineers BoA itself. Developing a new engine based on the scenario file spec implicit in the editor source would be legal, but a derivative work; you'd need to license said work accordingly.

 

Of course, then one would have to be careful not to use any Spiderweb trademarks or copyrighted material in the resulting program. However, what's being discussed in this thread is not a hack or crack, and it's not in violation of either the BoA EULA or the forums' code of conduct.

[demipomme]

On an interesting and vaguely similar note: does anyone know why there isn't a freeware RPG similar to BoA? It can't be the hardest type of game to make given the simplicity of the graphics, and there are many freeware games of different types out the that must have been harder to make. The freeware developers seem bent on making MMOCRPGs, and expanding the world's complement of SLAs.

[Lilith]

Djur happens to be quite close to completing Pygmalion , a scenario-based RPG design application (the graphics are tile-based rather than isometric, but the engine is apparently going to be significantly more powerful than both BoE and BoA). Not many other people have done this because it's a hell of a lot of work; Djur's been working on it for close to 5 years now.

 

There are freeware game design tools already out there, though. Unfortunately, many of them are either very complex to learn and use, or not very good for various reasons.

[+t]

Quote:

Originally written by KernelKnowledge12:
If you do plan on making your own BoA Editor, please consider using the wxWidgets (fromerly wxWindows) framework to power your application, as it is an incredibly comprehensive, cross platform UI.

Thank you! At last something more valuable, than senseless talks about law(s)!
But well i'll not use that library. I reckon that what I'll gain from it will be much less that I'll spend...
My BoAE will be written in C# with using WinForms - FYI.

[+t]

I became tired talking with all of you. Have you remember what I asked? Yes,yes please look at top of this thread. Only TWO man posted something in fact mmm how it's in english? "post with valuable information". And what post most of you? Variation of 1 theme "Copyright is divine law. You bad, we good". Now talkng about Imban's post:

Quote:

Originally written by Imban:

Apparently, you come from some sort of country with no laws.In the United States of America, reverse-engineering proprietary software and distributing modified copies of said software is against the law. While the illegality of it is mostly based on how much the developer and/or publisher care, if they ask you to cease and desist, Americans must legally do so.

May I ask you some questions? How old are you? Have you logic? {that isn't kind of offense, i'm realy curious.} If in my country copyright is not law with 0 level priority, and in America it is true(well maybe not 0, but close to it), then my country have no laws? Where is your logic, i'm asking again?

 

About ban. You think that ban is something, that have a sense for me? All of you misunderstanding then 1 thing: you(well most of you, with some exceptions) all have nothing valuable for me. May be for now I too. But all of your's post make me think that you don't wish have anything from me. Well that yours decision. As I thought, it was a mistake to talk here.

[Kelandon]

Quote:

Originally written by +t:
Have you logic? {that isn't kind of offense, i'm realy curious.}

If you're really asking that question, that means you're stupid enough not to realize that a person could not conceivably answer no. If you're not really asking that question, then your parenthetical was a heap of excrement. I'm not sure which I believe more.

Generally copyright law and intellectual property are respected pretty seriously throughout most of the developed world. Yes, you would have to be in a fairly bizarre country for copyright law not to exist or be enforced.

Also, copyright law is respected on these boards, as they are the company's official boards — think about it. Since you are such a paragon of reason, I'm sure you won't have any trouble figuring this out.

Your question has, by the way, been answered. Khoth answered it already. He and Isaac are the two who have been doing the most tinkering with the BoA Editor, so those two would know, and you got an answer from one of them. What else do you want?

[+t]

Quote:

Originally written by Kelandon:

Quote:

Originally written by +t:
Have you logic? {that isn't kind of offense, i'm realy curious.}

If you're really asking that question, that means you're stupid enough not to realize that a person could not conceivably answer no. If you're not really asking that question, then your parenthetical was a heap of excrement. I'm not sure which I believe more.

From you, as a student of Berkeley University, i have expected something more intellectual answer. But well, now i'll know that if person studying in that University, i shouldn't expect from him much brains. Damn, I begun to be like you in maners and thoughts. For all other: in previous post i was curios not about knowing of logic by Imban (becouse i reckon he knows. Maybe little, but anyway. ), but was it used. And if was, what kind?

Quote:

Generally copyright law and intellectual property are respected pretty seriously throughout most of the developed world. Yes, you would have to be in a fairly bizarre country for copyright law not to exist or be enforced.

Again... well i think you now know what i think about you. BTW, i never said that USA is " a fairly bizarre country." or something like that. Why you think that you may say such thing about my country?

Quote:

...skipped...
What else do you want?

What else? From this community(especially you) - N O T H I N G.
Now I with yours help understanded in the final shape, that i was talking with kids. Not with very smart ones, to be added. And have wasted so many time for nothing. Well now i learned something. For those, who gave me those lessons - thanks.
I wish you a lot of luck.

PS
prosto pizdec, kakie vi vse deystvitel'no tupie.©
PPS
pojaluy deysctvitelno "Idite vi nahuy, poshli vi vse v jopy" ©

[Imban]

Alright. Go away.

[teh banana]

+t screws up.

The Administration hits +t (999).

+t is KIKBANND.

 

^^

[Kelandon]

Ah, he's a Ruskie. Now I understand.

[KernelKnowledge12]

Quote:

Originally written by +t:
At last something more valuable, than senseless talks about law(s)!

What people do on their own time (stupid, pointless and illegal or otherwise) is none of my concern.

Quote:

Originally written by +t:
But well i'll not use that library. I reckon that what I'll gain from it will be much less that I'll spend...

The wxWidgets framework is free.

[Dastal]

This is pretty much off the top of my head, and should not be taken for expert council. However, +t, the Russian Federation is still a party to the Berne Convention and the Paris Convention, as well as the TRIPS Accord, part of the Treaty of Geneva Establishing a World Trade Organization and the Uraguay Talks. She is also a member of the UN and accepts the rulings of WIPO. Under Article 14 of the TRIPS Accord, you would be in breach of Mr. Vogel's intelectual property rights, and should he follow through, I think the Russian Federation would not hesitate to give you up. Cheers and all.

[Kelandon]

Nor would any of the other Slavic nations. I'm having a little bit of trouble tracking down what language that is, exactly. It's Slavic, but what, I don't know.

 

It does explain the total lack of respect for the law, though. There seems to be something in the political climate of the countries formerly part of the Soviet Union that makes their citizens believe that law simply does not matter. This would make an interesting discussion topic, although this thread is not, I guess, the place for it.

[*i]

Laws or not, discussing illegal activities is a serious violation of the CoC. Being demeaning and insulting to members is as well. +t is banned for conduct that is totally unacceptable.